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Cutting Sycamore and Usage

Started by Randy, January 07, 2005, 01:30:54 PM

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Randy

Hello Everyone!! I have been reading your advice on this Forum for weeks now--I look forward to it daily. I am new at sawing--Only a couple of months. I got a neighbor that has 3 sycamores that were just cut down. One is 36" at the base. I have never cut a sycamore and don't know how to recommend to him to cut it. He is remodeling a cabin by a lake. Any suggestions on how to cut this--Like--for studs or joist or sheating or paneling or just firewood(how is it best to use it)?? Is this tree like cutting a Oak or softer wood(bad on blades)? Is there some link on the computer that would tell you what each type of  tree would be best used for as a building material? Thanks Randy

oakiemac

Randy,

Welcome to the site!

Sycamore seems to cut easy and is not very hard. I would quater saw the sycamore if I was you. Flat sawn Sycamore doesn't have too much appeal but it is beautiful when quartered. It had fine ray flecks that make it look like lacewood-and it is sometimes called the American lacewood.
Now if you just want if for construction lumber,  I'm not sure how it would work for that. I would use pine or cottonwood or poplar for the contruction wood and q-s the sycamore for paneling or cabinets inside the cabin.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

ronwood

Randy,

All the sycamore that I cut was qaurtersawn for furniture lumber. Not as stable when flatsawn although it has been cut that way. If you cut it into construction lumber I would try and use it right away. Nailing it together will help keep it straighter.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Ga_Boy

Randy,

Sycamore must be QS or else it is unstable.  I would not waste Sycamore as construction material.  It has more value when grade sawn and used in furniture.

My thoughts.



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Buzz-sawyer

Many of the interior stud walls in my house are syc.
They are flat sawn and you WILL need a nail gun to assemble thenm if you use them after drying...very hard!
Most all our syc goes to pallet mills and tie markets....a shame really , because it is the primary beatiful wood you see in  high grade butcher block....really pretty.
It does tend to twist and bow when flat sawn...but has built millions of barns and sheds and houses in the mid west.

One final issue is with shake...it tends to seperate near the heart...especially the red heart area of the trunk...take tht into account as you see it in the but before sawing :)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Bibbyman

Here are a couple of "oldies but goldies" talking about sycamore and sawsheds.  Lots of pictures.

Building a Sawmill Shed  

Sycamore Logs
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ARKANSAWYER

  It is very wet and  heavy when green but dries light and fast.  Seems to move alot when sawing and I would not use it for framing.  It is not rot proof at all.  May be just that we have so much other good wood for building with here.  Spalted it makes great lumber when qsawn.  It also makes good butcher blocks as it does not split or impart taste to the food.
ARKANSAWYER

PS  I used to live in Soccastee SC till Hugo incouraged me to get back to my hills.
ARKANSAWYER

Curlywoods

 Arky,

  Your killing me looking at that quarter sawn spalted Sycamore  8)

  How often do you run across that stuff ;)

  Between the possibilty of getting walnut crotches and now this kind of wood from you, I might have to train the old Ford how to get to Bruno :D

  Is that some gorgeous wood or what!
All the best,

Michael Mastin
McKinney Hardwood Lumber
McKinney, TX

jflytle

Curly,

Careful. You keep looking at these pictures you might cross the line from purveyor of fine wood to needing a twelve-step program to break your hoarding habit  :D

Don't ask me too many questions. I'm just soaking up the brilliance.

Larry

Gollee Mike don't you Texas guys have any pretty wood down there?

This one is fresh out of the cooker




and sliced up.




I better start putting the good stuff in my attic again. ;D

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Curlywoods

You guys are killing me :D :D :D :D :D

  That attic might get burglarized if your not careful there Larry :D :D :D :D :D
All the best,

Michael Mastin
McKinney Hardwood Lumber
McKinney, TX

Curlywoods

If you want Mesquite we have great trees in Texas Larry!  Not any forests in North texas last time I looked around anyway  :D   Got a few Osage trees, Hackberry and maybe a few yard trees from time to time, but not much else to speak of that I have seen.
All the best,

Michael Mastin
McKinney Hardwood Lumber
McKinney, TX

Randy

I want to thank everyone for their info!! I talked to this guy again that has this sycamore-----his funds are tight, he wants to know if I will cut these tree's for 1/2 of the wood-------I am new at cutting, but this don't sound fair to me. What do you guys and Ladies think would be a Fair trade(payed with wood) on cutting these trees or any tree's, but if I was to quartersaw my share, I am sure he would want his quartersawned also. I am building a Cook-house so some of this wood might be nice to use on the cabinet's or what ever. Tell me too---what does "spalted" mean?? Thanks Randy
Ps. Hello To my X neighbor from Socastee!!!

WV_hillbilly

 Larry       I must have missed something along the lines here. What do you mean when you say you just took it out of the cooker ?  That is some petty fine looking wood you cut there .
Hillbilly

Bibbyman

I'm sure there is a better definition for spalted.  But it's a fancy was to sell wood that's well on it's way to being rotten.  I've never sold a square inch of it to anyone building furniture.  Some has went into blacking – the rest into the slab pile.

What would you have to do for your half.  If just sawing it, and the logs are nice,  I'd probably do it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Brad_S.

Randy,
In my opinion, half of the wood as payment depends on how proficient you are at sawing. You should be able to sell the green lumber at around, oh, I don't know, $1.50 to $2. a bdft if clear FAS. You have to do the math, but if you are charging by the bdft for your sawing, say $.20, you stand to make a whole lot more keeping half the wood. If you're charging by the hour, you'll have to guess how long it will take you and how much you'd make verses what you could sell the wood for. I only consider such an exchange on high value woods, and quartered sycamore can bring a decent buck. If the wood looks to hold only low grade material, all bets are off.

Spalting is a pattern in the wood caused by fungus during the early stages of decay. In the photos Arky posted here and on WW, it is the black lines you see running through the wood. Along with the lines, it gives the wood a mottled, marbled look especially noticable in Larry's photo. The more dense the pattern, the more valuable the lumber, but there comes a point where strength is compromised and the lumber must be considered too rotten to use in advanced cases.

BTW, beautiful wood, Arky and Larry! 8)
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Randy

The logs are good-------------one is about 36", This man does tree removing. He was payed $700 to remove just the 36" tree. All I have to do is pull the mill beside the tree and cut---------they are lined up, he will help--------------His words were that I could have the bigger bottom section's he would take the next etc. So I would get a little more lumber. Would you cut on 1/2's if the tree's were down and lined up on other type's of  wood like pine or are you saying you would do it just for special type wood? Thanks Randy

Brad_S.

I consider it for cherry, walnut, maple, maybe tulip poplar only because I can't keep it on the shelf so I know I could turn it quickly and it saws fast and easy.

Other reasons would be for odd species that are harder to find, like sycamore, catalpa or sassafrass, depends on my financial situation at the moment of inquiry. Never pine.

If he is willing to give you the butt, I think you may have a good thing there. Since it doesn't appear you do this as a living and therefore don't absolutely need the payment as cash to keep the creditors at bay, think of it as a chance to learn or improve upon your quarter sawing skills and chalk it up as on the job training. Then see if you can market the lumber profitably and that will teach you whether you may want to do it that way again in the future or stick to cash and carry! ;) Best of luck in any case.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Randy

I just read Brad_S's reply. I never thought about selling this wood. What places do I need to check with about buying this or other lumber. I don't have a Kiln. Should I think about one??  I am new to this sawing. I really bought this LT40 Hyd. to saw for myself, then sell it when finished(I work part-time at night so this works out good), but I made up some cards. Then I cut for one, someone see's me etc---now I have a sawmill bus. started :D. I love doing it, but I am in the Learning stage----you know----like a baby learning to walk. Thank you all for your help and Idea's!!  I liked the sawmill mods on this forum. I have several of the mods on mine like the extra battery at the hydralics, lights etc, but I did two mods to mine I didn't see on those mod pages. I added a 12 volt fan about 3 1/2 square where it would keep the saw dust blown off the main rail and also added a large disconnect plug to my battery box so I can plug in a power inverter (velcro to battery box so it can be removed) to run those 115 volt electric things I might need out in the woods like extra lights, drill to get them hard to get to nails out, my electric blower I like to use to keep the sawdust blowed off the machine expecially if its going to rain, man that wet sawdust sticks. Randy

Curlywoods

Randy,

  I don't saw, but the suggestion to use this experience as just that, "experience", is sound advice to me.  

  Be sure that you let customer know up fron that you are just getting started and that there will be no guarantees about how the wood is sawn, but that you will do your best to provide quality lumber for him.

  Quarter sawn Sycamore is a limited market compared to Red Oak, Maple, Walnut, Cherry, etc.  You have to develop niche markets or find supp;iers that have these markets that you can supply.

  We sell a fair amount of quarter sawn Sycamore annually, but it must be sawn properly to expose the ray fleck figure that people look for in this wood.

  One step at a time, and feel your way around before making any big decisions about what you need to add or subtract from your business :-)

  
All the best,

Michael Mastin
McKinney Hardwood Lumber
McKinney, TX

Bibbyman

Must be a regional thing.  We've got zillions of bf of sycamore around here and the loggers won't even cut it for pallet stock – not enough money in it.   I've taken some nice butt cut logs and sawed out a couple 4-500 bf of just 1x12" out of it and had it kiln dried.  People kept asking for wide boards to make shelves.  I finally sold it all – mostly to one guy who started out making shelves he was going to paint over.  He then came back and bought enough to make cabinets with it.  I haven't had anyone ask for any since.


It grows like weeds around our creek and river bottoms.   I cut all framing lumber for our 20x40 sawshed out of two trees – including 4 2x12"s 20' long for the headers for the front and back doors.   Where the trees grew had been planted in corn in 1953.  Dad found the ground too rocky to plow with his team of mules.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ARKANSAWYER

  I spalt about 3 to 4 mbdft of syckymore a year and have about 1 to 2 mbdft of logs spalting at any one time.  I need to saw some up now and roltate my stock.  I have a very special way of doing it and just not going to give up the deal.  It took a long time to learn to spalt it and blue stain pine.
  Mike tell me what you are interested in and I will pile it up.

ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Curlywoods

Arky,

  I will have to make a trip up to see you in the very near future.  How far East of Conway are you?  I have another miller that IO buy from down in Atkins that I need to come up and see too.  I always like to make personal trips to see everyone that I buy from from time to time.  I just like folks :-)
All the best,

Michael Mastin
McKinney Hardwood Lumber
McKinney, TX

Kirk_Allen

Bibbyman,

If you had to build a saw shed again do you think 20x40 is big enough?

I need to get one built this spring and contemplating the size.

If your log entry door is 20' wide I assume you just anlge one end of a 20+ footer into the opening and then swing in the other end when you need to cut 20+ lumber?

Dave, are you going to share that secret spalting formula?  I have a nice sycamore in my log pile that I would like to treat.  Thanks in advance.

Bibbyman

The 20x40 was plenty big to park the mill, keep the related tool and to saw there part time.  Adding the edger and then having to move lumber and slabs have became a problem.  

The posts on each side of the 20' door are 20' center to center of 6x6s so the opening is just 19'-6".  We angled in anything longer.  Wasn't too bad before we had the office trailer parked on one side.

I'm thinking the next building will be at least 30x60 maybe 40x60 or bigger yet.  I'm sure you can't build one too big. ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

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