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Sawing dimension lumber

Started by D6c, December 11, 2017, 10:06:14 AM

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D6c

Basic question for you guys that saw dim. lumber all the time.  What's your technique?

In my part of the country there are virtually no conifers (other than ERC) so sawing dimension lumber is pretty much non-existent.  Once in a while some oak trailer decking gets cut, but even that is often odd size.
I just sawed a little hackberry yesterday that I thought I'd use for the floor & sides on a carry-all for the back of a tractor.  (not sure if it will hold up but we'll see)

Not a big deal to square up a cant to get a couple of stacks of 2 x 6's out of, but is there a simple method to figure your cuts if you want a mix of sizes out of a log?....or are you just better off cutting all one size and saw some smaller dim lumber out the flitches if you can get some?


drobertson

I'm not sure about easy, but easy enough I reckon. Now this will make many folks kindof  cringe the way I did it, but it for sure made good boards, Now if you know how many you will need, making the cant sized up and drop cutting is as good as a way as any, but if you want to get say some 2x 4's, 6's and even 8's all out of one log, then the way I did it is such: I would go ahead and make my drop cuts to the desired number, say, mine was 1-5/8",  now, I would proceed with this on the first two sides, and now on the third face, I would see how the sweep of the log looks, many times it does not matter, other times it can bite you. I then would go to either 9-1/2" or sometimes 10"  for 2x4's and 2x6's, then once I'm at that number, flip to the 4th face and make the 1-5/8" drops through, then I would take these flitches and make the 4's and 6's out of them, now the reason for the heavier (over sized ) flitch was to take the trim cuts to remove the stress (if) any, out, to reduce the possible crooking of the boards, I would trim cut the 4"s leave clamped then take the 4" off, then you are left with a heavy 6, two more trims to bring to size,  sounds like a lot of trimming, but it makes good boards,  mixing up the combo numbers for 4's and 8's, or 6's and 8's, or any other you need is all done the same way.  I've just found that going straight to the number so many times has just produced crooked boards that are a pain to build with, just my way, thought I would share,, since you asked,
I should have previewed,, so just to add, and I'm sure you already knew, but some may not and it may have sounded confusing,  the first two cuts are just slabbing cuts, face opening cuts, to a 4 or maybe 6" face, I figured this was a known, but had to say it anyway, hope this helps,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

D6c

Thanks,
Might take me a bit to think through the process, but with a little experience i'm sure it will make more sense.

Crossroads

My system is pretty much the same as drobertson. It was just the system that I came up with when I started, I didn't even realize it was helping to reduce the stress and keeping my boards straight.
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

Crossroads

D6c, after you do it once it will all click. In a nut shell the first 2 sides, you just squaring up by cutting slabs of a usable thickness. The third side is the one where you do your math. Say with full dimension 2x6, on the third side I'll figure slabs that will leave me at, lets say 18 1/4. Once I get there, I drop down to 12 1/8, then down to 6". Then flip the three can't up and start peeling off 3 2x6's with each cut and giggle watching the off bearer try to keep up.
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

D6c

Do you always rough cut to full dim?  For ex: cut full 2" x 4" and plane to 1 1/2 x 3 1/2"

...Or for utility lumber do you saw to finished size?  For my purposes I was rough sawing some boards right to 1 1/2" x 5 1/2".
I wasn't concerned with shrink or planing because of what it was going to be used for.

I can see how cutting oversize to nominal inch makes doing the math in you head a little easier.

drobertson

It really boils down to what the plans you have for the lumber, I for a long time have used an 1/8" over for SYP on the thickness and widths.  This was just because I sawed for folks building sheds and barns and such on a limited budget for the most part, and these numbers matched up with lumber yard boards when the logs did not fill the order, which often times happens once the building and changes begin.  Window I've found to be the big changes in  builds,,and rightly so, windows could be framed in with nice flush transitions for interior finishing. But after a few bigger builds with longer spans and wider truss and beam components, I've discovered that if the folks let the lumber stacks air out longer, the widths will shrink more, and for this reason, after measuring the boards and knowing where the began, I started using 1/4" oversize for 6" and above.  For around these parts at least, air dried SYP dried up nicely for (rough) builds) and no, there is no planing of the boards, they just go up, fastened and done.  Oaks, now at times, follows pretty close, but then again, its wood, it changes, how and where its grown, moist conditions, dry? for air dried fab work,,it really is and boils down to experience and luck of the draw,, saw plenty, over the estimated build material list. this is kinda SOP anyway,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

I never saw oversize with the intention to re-saw or plane.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Crossroads

I saw it however the customer asks me to. I just used full dimension in the example for easy math. The extra 1/8s are for the blade kerf. 
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

drobertson

10-4 on what folks want, but what they have when the build starts is two different animals,. many folks just don't care, I'm thinking they just don't know, and they have learned how to build with (rough sawn) lumber.  I sawed a pretty big job for a Vietnam vet some years back, his comment was, " if folks cant build with whats available, they maybe should not be building at all,"  well once I was done, he shook his head, and said, I did not know it was possible,,,I'm just saying anyone with a mill can turn logs into lumber, but "user friendly lumber" is another topic all by itself,,some folks get it, some folks don't,  and the over size comment,, well, when questions are asked, I answer, and sometimes I offer without being asked. Around these parts, 1/8" over will match some of the crap from the lumber yards, but if green is cut to the final number, it will surely be under and the wider the board, the more under size it will be when dried out..
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

dgdrls

Hey D6c,

I saw with a swing mill so its all dimension lumber

Softwoods I saw at full dimensions, 2x4, 4x4...etc

Hardwood I will often add an 1/8 to the dimension
I have a small handful of crafters who purchase the hardwoods I saw
and many appreciate the extra for planning/finishing

D

Don P

With a swing blade or a well tuned bandmill the s-green dimensions would be fine;
http://cwc.ca/wood-products/lumber/visually-graded/dimension-lumber-sizes/

This is an overview of another method that works better with hardwood or logs with more stress like plantation pine;
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fplrp479.pdf

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Magicman on December 11, 2017, 01:56:39 PM
I never saw oversize with the intention to re-saw or plane.

You never have intentions of doing anything with what you saw....you leave it.  :D :D :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on December 11, 2017, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: Magicman on December 11, 2017, 01:56:39 PM
I never saw oversize with the intention to re-saw or plane.

You never have intentions of doing anything with what you saw....you leave it.  :D :D :D
There is more to this than meets the eye, just saying, it stinks to have crooked boards, no matter how many you might have, and from my experience, at least around here, folks have  (X) amount of logs, and need, I said Need!  what they need to get the job done without a lot of waste,, its never a saw'em and leave em' situation here,, just saying,,no joking, no ill intent, just saying, folks that know, know, those that don't, well they just don't,,and I reckon they get buy because its' all they've ever known,  hard to say, the way we see it out this way is useable lumber is full length,

Pretty, scarry to go against the grain aint' it,? well, just saying,it is what it is,,I don't care about saw'em and leave em, around here, many times I help to build, I don't much care for, well lets say, culls?


only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Peter Drouin

Over here I cut full size lumber, What all my customers want, they use LVL joist hangers if they need hangers. I box the heart and go. I don't have time to resaw, I get it right the first time.
When someone sees what they're working with their good.
What ever you cut just be the same on all of it, don't jump around with extra.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

drobertson

Quote from: Peter Drouin on December 11, 2017, 09:06:05 PM
Over here I cut full size lumber, What all my customers want, they use LVL joist hangers if they need hangers. I box the heart and go. I don't have time to resaw, I get it right the first time.
When someone sees what they're working with their good.
What ever you cut just be the same on all of it, don't jump around with extra.
getting the numbers right when sawing is not the issue, its when it lays, then things go haywire, anyone who builds knows this,,taking stress out of green sawn boards can be time consuming, but, it sure makes for better user friendly materials, like I said, most folks are so use to the same ole same ole, they just don't know the difference till they see it..
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Peter Drouin

I know what you saying droberson,
My business is growing with what I'm cutting, ;D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Bruno of NH

They make hangers for full cut 2x material
The supply yard I buy from stocks them
Full 2x very popular in these parts
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

DMcCoy

Visiting any local yard here in OR and you can find boards with saw marks that the planner didn't get.  The boards are green too.  I cut 1 5/8" minus the saw blade and get slightly over 1 1/2" which will fit common joist hangers.  Like mentioned above it all depends on what you want to do with it and I think commonly available hardware speaks really loud about what you size you should be cutting.  My 2 cents.

Sixacresand

I always cut wider than finished width.  When milling down through a cant, for 2 X 4's for example, I cut 2 x 5's, then trim off both sides, four or five boards at a time. 

I didn't know two inch hangers were available,  Thanks.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

btulloh

2" hangers are available, but nail guns won't shoot nails long enough to face nail 2" lumber, if that matters to the end user.
HM126

longtime lurker

All I do is dimension.

Basic technique is to pull the smallest log that can cut what I want today and hack it and everything that won't make target size goes to whatever other sizes it'll make and put into stock. Stock is important when you're in the dimension game: it's a leg up on the next order.

Grab the next smallest log and repeat.

Try and use logs with a diameter 3x target width when backsawing. Makes for less cup down the road.

Always leave the best logs till last. Invariably they will cut something better and if you hack them today chasing 6x2's you can bet tomorrow you'll get an order for 8's and be trying to pull them from thin air.

And repeat.
And repeat.
And repeat.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

DR_Buck

Any time I saw dimension lumber if the customer wants "store bought" sizes I saw it 1/8" over on each plane to allow for any drying shrinkage.  A 2x4 is sawn at 3 5/8 x 1 5/8.   I do the same for anything I'm sawing for my own use.    I mill lots of framing lumber for sheds and barns from Poplar and it works out pretty much right on when it dries.   
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Don P

btulloh hit a nail on da head, full dimension takes a full nail, commons, not box or sinker. Green lumber prefers deformed shanks, rings or spirals, and preferably hardened.

The saw marks in dressed lumber are graded as hit or miss OR as hit and miss and is limited to depth and degree within a grade.

From memory a regular hanger has a 1-1/2" opening, lvl/engineered- 1-3/4" and rough sawn- 2" opening in the Simpson hangers.

Magicman

There are no Simpson StrongTie connector/hangers available in my area other than 1½", 3" (for stacking two), 3½", and 5½".  There are no hangers available for full sized 2", 4", etc.

In my entire sawing "career" I have only sawn full sized framing lumber twice and that was for customers matching some older construction.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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