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Tool question re: what should be priority?

Started by Grizzly, December 07, 2017, 10:07:38 AM

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Grizzly

My daughter and a couple of friends are interested in woodworking. She keeps talking about getting a planer but I've suggested that might not be a good first priority. She asked to me question you all about this. She has access to tablesaw and sawmill and some other handtools but to prep wood for assembly would a jointer/planer be a better step? Or what comes first? This is for smaller projects not big boards.

I've read too much on here about tool priorities and I want to help her spend her money right.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Den-Den

Since rough lumber will be available, a planer makes sense to me.  If they were using purchased lumber, I would suggest a jointer before a planer.  A serious hobbyist will eventually have both.  With a sawmill, table-saw, planer and some hand tools, lots of projects are practical.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Ianab

Planer is the first step.

Jointer is handy, but you can work around it. Basically choose your rough sawn wood so it doesn't need any serious jointing (if you have a sawmill you have plenty to choose from). Tablesaw takes care of the edge jointing.

Then it depends what you want to build. But I'd probably put a router (with table and sled), and drill press before a jointer, at least for the stuff I build.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Grizzly

Ok. Not what I expected. (but that ain't strange)  What about all the discussion that a planer will make a board consistent thickness but will not flatten it? Seems I've read a lot that you need the jointer to flatten wood. Or is that a step for a more experienced woodworker?
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

WLC

I would go with a planer as well, and did.  I can always use a sled on a table saw as a joiner.  I will eventually get a joiner, but a better planer than my current lunchbox planer is on the list first.
Woodmizer LT28
Branson 4wd tractor
Stihl chainsaws
Elbow grease.

WDH

You essentially have to have all three, planer, jointer, and tablesaw to do woodworking.  I would go tablesaw first, planer second, jointer third, but it would best to go ahead and get all three.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Ianab

Ideally you would have all three, but if you are starting with rough sawn, I think the most essential is the planer. If you need to straighten a board, you can always roughly joint it with a hand plane, so it's "flattish". Then the planer will clean it up. Or use a sled with the planer, or use a router sled for larger pieces. And you can cut wood with other types of saws. So there are ways to work around the missing jointer and table saw. In fact I use a bandsaw rather than a table saw. Has different pros and cons, but you can still cut things. 

OK technically you can also plane boards with hand tools. But that needs skills above my pay grade and patience level  :D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Grizzly

So buy the biggest she can afford? Or the best? And which would those be?
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Ljohnsaw

My brother decided to go with a track saw (the name escapes me at the moment) that is way expensive but super light weight.  It cuts so straight that jointing is not necessary.  I vote on a surface planer as well with a sled to make things flat.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Don P

I prefer a 15", they are heavy enough to take rough sawn down in reasonable time. The little 12" lunchbox planers are light and frustrating for rough sawn IMO.

I use a long fence in the tablesaw to straighten edges and a router mounted under a table with long fences if I need glueline jointing of the edges.

One of the guys I used to work with said "you can do anything with a router", he was right.

Grizzly

I have a fairly good tablesaw but I'll check the fence on it. And I'll let her know to not buy the small planer if she can do better. Thanks.

We'll be asking more about this sled thing later.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

bags

Most furniture shops revolve around a good table saw--- not those portable little big box store deals of the day--- followed by a thickness planer will keep things move'in along in the shop.

WLC

Quote from: Grizzly on December 08, 2017, 11:15:23 AM
I have a fairly good tablesaw but I'll check the fence on it. And I'll let her know to not buy the small planer if she can do better. Thanks.

We'll be asking more about this sled thing later.

I built this table for my son to use as a computer table/desk out of repurposed oak lumber from some old bunkbeds that were taken down and replaced.




I used this sled/tablesaw jig to joint the boards since I don't have a joiner.



Was easy to make out of coated mdf (slides like grease on the tablesaw) and a couple of clamps.  It was originally made to edge some 8 foot stuff but I cut it down to four feet for this project.  You only have to run one edge with the lumber in the jig.  The other side can be run through the tablesaw as you will already have one straight side.

I'd also be interested in seeing the planer sled if someone is using one.  I guess I've been lucky and haven't had boards cupped bad enough to need something else besides just running through the planer.

Woodmizer LT28
Branson 4wd tractor
Stihl chainsaws
Elbow grease.

Ianab

For production you need a heavy duty planer. But for a kid doing hobby woodworking a 'lunchbox" planer will get the job done, even if you have to run the boards through a few times to plane them down. I've build a heap of stuff with boards run through my old Dewalt 733.

So for a hobby woodworker, I'd get a "lunchbox" style machine. Because i doesn't really matter if you spend an extra 15 minutes planing boards. Then you have some money left over for other tools  ;D Routers are super versatile, and I love my old wood lathe etc. Choice of tools depends on what you want to make. Hard to make intarsia  without a scroll saw, or a bowl without a lathe.

Now for a commercial shop it's different, but then one of my computer clients is a timber processing company. They have a couple of 6 figure$ Weinig machines running. That's a complete different level. I can make the same shiplap or  T&G boards, just they make it in one pass, basically as fast as they can feed the rough sawn boards in. I might spend an afternoon running what they can push through in 5 mins.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Kbeitz

One of the most important shop wood working tools to me is a
bench top belt sander. There is so much you can do with one.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Don P

A cutoff saw of some sort. I use a radial arm most of the time. That used to be tool #1 for a home shop, they are the most versatile saw but also probably the most dangerous. Most folks have moved to the sliding compound miter saw or the powered miter saws.

Grizzly

So a tablesaw sled is a longer proven straight edge to ride the fence while holding the workpiece securely allowing it to be given a true straight cut. Do I have it right? That certainly makes sense. Dad would fuss over the fence ensuring it was set straight and then fussed again just to make sure. But he never built a sled like that. Just a bunch of good furniture. We still have a dresser doing its job and its got to be 40yrs old now. The reason that sounds good is that it's on 3rd generation of rough boys.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

scsmith42

Grizz, what I would suggest (for non production level woodworking), is that she obtain a combination jointer/planer, such as one from Jet.  I would suggest a 10" minimum, and 12" would be better if she can handle the cost.  A 12" with a spiral cutterhead is the best.

This will allow her to flatten, dimension, and edge joint - all with one machine.  Owner reviews are very positive on the Jet combo machines too.

The european equipment makers also have combo jointer/planers, but at a higher cost than the Jet.

You can make a straight line rip sled for a tablesaw, but I find that prefer to use a track saw for straight line ripping.  I have a Festool TS55 with a couple of tracks (9' and 5'), and the cut quality is excellent.  Personally for non-production use I find the Festool more versatile than my 12" cabinet saw.

For sanding, hands down try to get her going with Festool.  The product quality is great, and the dust collection is extraordinary.  The greatest risk to long term woodworkers is dust inhalation, and the combination of Festool dust collection with their sanding and sawing equipment is the best in the industry. 

One of my employees has been using the track saw all morning and neither one of us is wearing a dust mask - the efficiency of the dust collection is that good.

Now if the budget is really tight then I'd change some recommendations.  I can promise you that if you follow my advice you will not regret it.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Grizzly

Quote from: scsmith42 on December 09, 2017, 12:22:06 PM
Now if the budget is really tight then I'd change some recommendations.  I can promise you that if you follow my advice you will not regret it.

The budget is small but she'll still shoot for quality. Why do I wonder if that last sentence comes with a smirk?  :D
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Grizzly

So this is the Jet combo scs is recommending? Looks like good quality.


 

And this is one example of a lunchbox planer? As a couple of others have recommended?


 

I'm just wanting to know I'm understanding correctly.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Den-Den

Yep, that is a "lunchbox" planer.  You can do quite a bit with one of those.  Fine for making an occasional bookshelf or table.  I had one and upgraded to an older version of this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0815?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com
The heavy machine does the same work MUCH faster and the blades last a lot longer too.  IMO a woodworker with a sawmill needs a planer equal to the one linked above (or bigger).
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Ianab

While the Grizzly planer Den-Den links to is certainly a much better machine, a decent lunchbox planer will still get the job done, just you need to be a bit more patient  :D The accuracy and finish on the smaller units is just as good.

The bigger machine also needs more power, that one is 240v @14A, so you are going to need more than a standard domestic outlet to power it. Just something to consider if working in a regular garage at home.

I agree that if you are planning on processing a lot of boards, then the heavier unit is the way to go. But for a beginner with a small workshop, the little portable lunchbox will work, and leave some $$ to spend on other toys.  (like a jointer)
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

21incher

If you keep a eye on Craigslist or whatever buy sell sites available at your location, there are some good deals on used equipment that pop up. Just avoid tools with built in motors that cannot be easily replaced and look everything over good. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

opticsguy

My list of priorities:
1     Bandsaw  (I have three, 14", 20" and a 16" 3-wheeled unit and use them all.)
2     Jointer
3     6"x48" belt sander
4     Planer  ( am not happy with the lunch box planers, ridged or the expensive Dewalt )  ( I love my heavy duty cast iron Grizzley planer)
5     Tablesaw
6     6 or more small Harbour Freight routers each with a dedicated bit. No time wasted changing bits I use very often. 
7     Big Bosch router.
8     One or more cordless Milwaukee Drills. (In fact I have and use 6 Dewault, Bosch and Milwaukee cordless drills and yes, need them all!!)
9     Bosch jigsaw, either corded or cordless.
10   Orbital sander. 

Oh, almost forgot, the REAL #1 is a bandsaw mill, never run out of wood.............................................

TK 1220 band mill,  1952 Ford F-2, 1925 Dodge touring, too many telescopes.

WLC

Quote from: Grizzly on December 09, 2017, 11:55:23 AM
So a tablesaw sled is a longer proven straight edge to ride the fence while holding the workpiece securely allowing it to be given a true straight cut. Do I have it right? That certainly makes sense. Dad would fuss over the fence ensuring it was set straight and then fussed again just to make sure. But he never built a sled like that. Just a bunch of good furniture. We still have a dresser doing its job and its got to be 40yrs old now. The reason that sounds good is that it's on 3rd generation of rough boys.

Yes. A sawmill board will dry somewhat crooked, or a lot crooked depending.  The sled I used gives you a true straight edge to ride the fence and get one edge of your board straight.  You can then run that straightened side against the fence to rip the other side straight.  IMHO its not as good as a jointer, but I work with what i've got.  If/when I start needing to straighten a lot of boards I plan on getting a jointer.  But for now, and what I need/do this sled works.
Woodmizer LT28
Branson 4wd tractor
Stihl chainsaws
Elbow grease.

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