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Author Topic: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?  (Read 1015 times)

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Offline starmac

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Re: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2017, 02:38:30 pm »
Am I missing something here? Is there something different about syp, that makes it where you can't tell if it is solid or not when cutting down and bucking to log length?

Our spruce will get a kind of rot, usually just in the stump in live trees. It is easy enough to tell with the saw, even the saw on the dangle head processor, you can tell by the color of the sawdust coming out, no need to even cut all the way through, so the operator just moves up a foot or two until he gets into clear wood before cutting the butt off.
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Offline coach08

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Re: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2017, 02:43:47 pm »
Georgia088    IF your werent brain dead you would know that pine is rotten....... so get it off my mill!!! :D :D

Offline WDH

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Re: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2017, 03:39:09 pm »
Age of the tree has a lot to do with it.  Young, fast grown trees do not last long.  Plantation trees do not last long.  The natural ones with tight rings will hold on much longer.  The slower the growth, the higher proportion of the dense latewood to the less dense earlywood, and the greater proportion of the latewood (the dark bands) contains more pitch which slows down the rot process. 
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Offline Don P

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Re: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2017, 04:44:01 pm »
Latewood proportion, density, is not directly related to growth rate in softwoods


In ring porous hardwoods, slow growth is directly related to lower density. There is no clear correlation between growth rate and density in diffuse hardwoods or in softwoods.

Offline drobertson

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Re: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2017, 04:58:26 pm »
Age of the tree has a lot to do with it.  Young, fast grown trees do not last long.  Plantation trees do not last long.  The natural ones with tight rings will hold on much longer.  The slower the growth, the higher proportion of the dense latewood to the less dense earlywood, and the greater proportion of the latewood (the dark bands) contains more pitch which slows down the rot process.
Now, here is an answer, WDH, thanks, not very educated on forestry here, and its hard to say or describe, but this is exactly the way it is, I've  seen stuff growing around ponds that I just hated to saw, fast growth basically no heart, while others were slow growers, very nice, even when standing dead. I believe ring growth is what  tells the story.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline WDH

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Re: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2017, 10:22:01 pm »
We are not talking about hardwoods here.  You are right that slow growth in ring porous hardwoods gives lower density.  However, in SYP, the latewood is denser that the early wood.  The cell walls are much thicker in the latewood.  It is all about proportions. 
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Offline Don P

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Re: Sothern Yellow Pine standing dead is it rotten?
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2017, 11:45:40 am »
Exactly, look for proportion of latewood, forget rate of growth. In the pic above the highest density, that is, the highest proportion of latewood happens to be in the board with the fastest growth. Proportion of latewood is not directly tied to rate of growth in distinct ring softwoods. Other factors like genetics, age, sun, site, latitude, elevation, etc, etc, etc play a stronger role in density of that group of softwoods than rings per inch.

Durability, decay resistance, is more related to heartwood formation than latewood proportion. The heartwood and sapwood contain the same early and latewood. Sapwood containing latewood rots readily, the heartwood is more durable. That is because of the extractives that infiltrate the cells during heartwood formation. Latewood will decay slower than earlywood but much faster than heartwood. Plantations are normally harvested on short rotation that doesn't allow for much heartwood.

In the plantation we are planting trees that were selected based on diameter growth. That might not be the best selection criteria if we are looking for high proportions of latewood. Fast growing trees produce a large juvenile core. The harvest cycle is short enough that heartwood formation, if any at all, is limited to that juvenile core wood. There is nothing wrong with growing softwood timber in a plantation and very high quality timber can be grown that way, it has more to do with what we are growing and how we are growing it than with how fast the plant grows.

I've worked in shops where the guys would pull out the sticks of heart pine and start counting rings per inch as a sign of quality. They could be in excess of 40 rings/inch. No doubt it is beautiful, full of heartwood. Latewood proportion is low in something like that, the rings are quite fine. Strength is low. That tree had a hard life and it shows in the meagerness of its progress. I'm not sure how this equates to quality in a plant... but that is what we as woodworkers keep telling ourselves  :).