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big job dilemma

Started by dirthawger, December 04, 2017, 08:50:15 PM

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Ljohnsaw

Sounds like you got a new business!  But, I didn't hear anything about insurance.  I'd be concerned about cutting down trees as a business without something in place!  And as soon as you have your mill, then you will really clean up!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

starmac

I am having a hard time following this, but apparently the land owner was paying your man to cut trees, but the deal went sour. here you come and are going to finish cutting them, is he paying you to take them down, or are you doing them for the logs? If he is not paying you, why would he care if you sold the logs or not?
His neighbor that also wants his cut, are we talking a paying job, or is this a clear this for me for the logs type of deal, or does he want paid. I am pretty sure the people the pulp buyer wants to send your way will want some compensation for their logs,if so you better sharpen your pencil to log and haul for 22 bucks a ton.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

dirthawger

No hes not paying me per se to cut the rest down but these are really good pines and some are pretty tall oaks and i was just gonna sell them to mill.  Details on the neighbor aren't 100% yet we haven't discussed it but i plan on selling to the mill or i might have my mill by then. As far as cutting them down,  i don't really know how that works. I dunno if i should try and charge to cut them down or if i should cut them down for "free" but just sell to the mill. And the customers that come from the pulp buyer, he told me depending on how big the tract you may charge them to cut them down or you may pay them but dealing with pulp you couldn't pay them much more than $2 or 3 a ton or you won't make anything.

dirthawger

But my niche im brainstorming up right now is being able to offer to harvest your timber, mill on site or sell to another mill and grind stumps.  Dunno if that's considered a niche but sounds good on paper.

Magicman

If you mill the logs then you must have a use or a market for the lumber.  The "food chain" has to be complete or you could be stuck with a whack of lumber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Resonator

quote: "And today was a day of heavy learning about selling to sawmills and grading logs." There's a lot of good threads on the forum here to read up on to help ("A Day Cutting Wood" would be a good one to start with). The more you know going in, the better off you'll be. Good to hear your getting established, the hardest part is getting started. (I'm new to this too!) Pain and money are good teachers, with lessons we don't soon forget.
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

TKehl

1.  If you can profitably remove them free, go for it.  Sounds like there will be plenty of nearby jobs.  If you get to many or find it unprofitable, start charging.  Dozer operators in my area get about $300 an acre to push timber and windrow.

2.  As for what to tell the landowner, just say you'll do the job for free or $X, but you keep the wood.  No need to say more.

3.  Your best customer can become your best competition.  Your tree guy sniffed $ and is testing to see what he can get.  All part of the dance.   ;)
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

dirthawger

Well we did alot of thinking this weekend about how uncomfortable we were the whole time we were at the job so we asked ourselves, is this really how we wanna start a business by being deceitful? I mean we already racked up some possible work in the future so lets just be honest with the guy. Wouldn't you know it he thought itd be a great idea to sell to a sawmill, agreed to pay $500 to cut rest of the trees and grind stumps and he just so happens to be retired from the forestry industry and said he can put the word out for us about milling lumber and said you'll be busy year round.  It sure pays to be honest. So i hate to tell that tree guy but there won't be any payout for that ole boy. Apparently he just walked off the job without even telling the man he quit. Just need to change my business name now,  haha.

Peter Drouin

Good, it worked out. But, It did look like a mess of trouble from the start. 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

terrifictimbersllc

Glad to hear. On the name,  I'd keep Campbells.  Starts earlier in the alphabet which is good for being first in listings like search results.  Also has good recognition.  Maybe  Campbells Stump and Saw?   Campbells Saw?   Campbells S something like the famous soup.  Good luck.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

hopm

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 17, 2017, 07:52:58 AM
Glad to hear. On the name,  I'd keep Campbells.  Starts earlier in the alphabet which is good for being first in listings like search results.  Also has good recognition.  Maybe  Campbells Stump and Saw?   Campbells Saw?   Campbells S something like the famous soup.  Good luck.
Worked for one of the more prominent lawyers in our area...one of my guys asked what he credited his success....The response was,"My name starts with A."
Always got a chuckle from that cause I always tend to make things more complicated and difficult than they need to be.

YellowHammer

I started out doing something similar, I eventually had a dump trailer and crane to go make removal easier.  I got a lot of trees that way.  I say trees, because once I started getting better equipment, the "free" job customers started getting more demanding.  When it was me with a simple truck and flatbed, they were happy to help me load the logs.  When it was me with a crane, they started asking if I could move the tops and brush to the curb, after all, they were "giving me the trees" so they expected a little payback.  When I started bringing a loader, they started asking me to remove the stumps and push  the brush into a pile or into the woods.  I finally quit when I removed a huge pecan log out of a guys front yard, (for free) and in the rain (it wasn't raining when I started) and he complained that my tires had left a couple ruts in his yard.  The very next day, I had a call from a guy to remove a fallen tree from his yard, easy pickings.  When I got there, I saw that the tree had fallen across his fence line and had landed in his neighbors swimming pool!  Turned out he was just trying to short the insurance company.  I drove away at the end of my rope, and the next day put my equipment up for sale on CL.  Within a week I had sold my whole rig to another guy who said he had a new sawmill, and was going to use the equipment to chase yard logs....

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Peter Drouin

Yes, YH, It's best to call for a load del.  :D :D


  

  

 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

alan gage

I'm just starting out too and am unsure how many logs I need and if it will be for mostly personal use or if I'll be selling lumber and sawing for others as well (hopefully). I have friends with a large cattle operation and a lot of oaks have been dying in their pastures the last couple years. I thought it was a great deal that I could go out there the take all the recently dead trees down and haul away the logs for free. I started in the first pasture and took out about 25 trees. It was enjoyable work in beautiful fall weather but it took more time than I thought it would. Then I had to clean up and pile the brush. That was just awful. No fun at all and slow going. I think I had just as much or more time doing that than I had in taking down the trees. I started thinking maybe this wasn't such a good deal after all.

Since then I've come across a few other loads of logs. Some (basswood) I was given for free and others (large load of large oak logs) I got for around .20/foot. I'm finding out that so far in this circumstance I'm way ahead buying logs than doing the work of cutting them down for free. It took me a few hours and $400 to load and haul those oak logs and I got over half as much as I got from those 25 "free" trees I took down, which I probably had 40 hours into. I'll be telling my friend I'm no longer interested in cutting his second pasture.

But then again I'm not all that well equipped do to work like that and it sounds like maybe you are. Also, there is no market for logs around here. The only "commercial" mill I know of is 90 miles away. There's no logging so what's available is usually yard trees or when someone takes out a grove to expand their field. They're generally piled up and burned. I think I'll try and get in good with a few of the excavators.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

YellowHammer

Quote from: Peter Drouin on December 17, 2017, 08:53:13 AM
Yes, YH, It's best to call for a load del.  :D :D

Thats what we tell people, we are a sawmill, not a logging service.  We pay for logs delivered to our yard.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

goose63

Quote from: YellowHammer on December 18, 2017, 01:55:57 PM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on December 17, 2017, 08:53:13 AM
Yes, YH, It's best to call for a load del.  :D :D

Thats what we tell people, we are a sawmill, not a logging service.  We pay for logs delivered to our yard.

I pay for the logs then go getem

 

But I sure wish I could get the logs that Peter gets
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

starmac

Goose, how are you tieing those logs down, and does the DOT hassle you hauling them like that?
I guess I should ask if they hassle you more than normal?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

goose63

starmac no hassel atall the logers over by Motly Minn. haul that way all the time.

Thats where I get ny logs
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

PAmizerman

Dang Peter I wish I could get logs that nice looking. I saw mostly hemlock if I can get a handful of 16"-18" diameter in a triaxle load I feel lucky.
Woodmizer lt40 super remote 42hp Kubota diesel. Accuset II
Hydraulics everywhere
Woodmizer edger 26hp cat diesel
Traverse 6035 telehandler
Case 95xt skidloader
http://byrnemillwork.com/
WM bms250 sharpener
WM bmt250 setter
and a lot of back breaking work!!

Peter Drouin

goose63, that is a nice load you have., Is that hard wood?

PAmizerman, We have a lot of Hemlock in NH.
Some loads are small logs with a 10" to 16" top.
The best I like is a 24" top 8' to 24' some 26'
Hemlock


  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

goose63

goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

TKehl

So... what mill did you get?
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

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