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big job dilemma

Started by dirthawger, December 04, 2017, 08:50:15 PM

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Peter Drouin

If you have the room, Have them drop them off, Cut them the right length, like 8'6", 10'6",
and on and on. Pile, and cut later.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

dirthawger

Well I've got my first 2 loads and the drive isnt bad at all.  I'd say 90% of the logs are real nice and straight, some have knots but there still good.  The ones I dont want I'm just pushing them into the trash pile.  Got 22 logs home so far, hopefully I'll get the rest.  He's bidding another job of 50 trees with a mix of hardwood and pines so I think I got more wood then I can handle, haha.  I have done a lot of research and have made my mind up on the Norwood LM29.  Just can't figure out if I want the one that has wheels or the stationary one.  Can the stationary one still be erected on a jobsite with ease?  I'll probably go with the portable one but they want an extra $2000 for a Trailer/Support Leg Package so not sure if that's necessary but it probably is.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: dirthawger on December 10, 2017, 07:57:50 PM
I'll probably go with the portable one but they want an extra $2000 for a Trailer/Support Leg Package so not sure if that's necessary but it probably is.
It depends on how stout the non-portable frame is.  You could make an axle dolly that pins onto the frame along with a tongue that bolts or pins on to the front.  If you can weld or have a good friend that can do it for you, probably less than $500 to outfit it.  If you had to make an entire subframe, maybe $1,000.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

dirthawger

Nah I dont know anyone that can weld...I'm gonna just get it, were talking an extra $50-100 a month and I know 100% that ill regret it if I don't.  If I bought a big hydraulic sawmill....woodmizer would be my choice but I just like Norwood's design for the smaller sawmills.  Not sure what's up with the hand crank business on the LT15, looks like a PITA.

Resonator

Good to hear dirthawger that your sorting the keepers from the Leaverite. (Leave-her-right where you found it.)
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Resonator on December 10, 2017, 09:31:07 PM
Good to hear dirthawger that your sorting the keepers from the Leaverite. (Leave-her-right where you found it.)

:D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

TKehl

Instead of spending $2k on a trailer or kit, I'd pay $2700 to jump to the LM36 and use your existing trailer to move it when you need to.  Add on later if it makes sense. 

The LM36 can be about full blown hydraulic with factory add on equipment in the future.  LM29, not so much.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

dirthawger

Ive thought about that but id need my tractor on the jobsite. Can't think of a way to tackle it as i only have 1 trailer.  I could load it but then when i get to the jobsite i have no way of unloading it and i can't think of an instance where i wouldnt need my tractor.

TKehl

A couple rollers, come alongs, hydraulic jacks, and blocks will move the world.   ;)

I moved my 8k Lb moulder that way.  Shipping weight on a LM36 is only 1400 Lbs.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

justallan1

Sounds like a great score on the logs.
As for the mill....If you already have the trailer you can mount your winch on the tongue and pull the mill on, to get it off run your winch cable through a snatch block at the rear of the trailer and hook onto the mill at the front of the trailer and hit "GO", that or tie it to something and drive out from under it. ;D Depending on the mill you decide on, you may want to beef up the tracks a little.
Keep in mind that at 38 minutes per trip each way you need to have something in or on that truck every last trip or you are just working for free, but I think it's safe to say that if making one extra trip to have a tractor on site was possible I'd sure as anything be making that trip.
Take a look at the EZ Boardwalk Jr mill. It's very comparable to the LM29 and made of solid iron. I have one and really like it.

dirthawger

Thanks for the advice. Got 1-2 more loads and ill be done but he just called today with another job in joaquin,tx which is an 1hr 15mins from me for 50 trees, said there's like 20,000 bf. Anyone know of any sawmills near joaquin, tx?

dirthawger

I had financing approval and money for the down payment. Well that same day my 1 tons altenator and batteries decided to quit on me.  Need to wait a couple weeks now but i don't want those logs to rot. Will they be ok a few weeks or do i need to find a way to get it shipped?

WV Sawmiller

DH,

   I don't know of any species of log that will rot in 2 weeks. You should be good as long as they aren't in the way and get removed by the owner/tree service before then.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

dirthawger

Ok thanks,  not worried about the owner moving the logs, i got that job completed, so there all over my property....i do mean all over, haha. If nothing else I've given the neighbors something to talk about.  They slow roll passed my house like what n the h3ll.  But i did find a sawmill for that next job.  Dunno if they'll take them they seem pretty picky but i cant think of any straighter pines then these.  Of course i haven't seen them but he started yesterday and he said hes getting 3 ligs 16' 6" before he reaches branches but the last log is 6" in diameter on the short end so that might be an issue.  Sure would be nice though,  could pay that sawmill off with this job if it goes good. Plus the $7-10k worth of logs he gave me but i gotta sell the lumber first.  So far so good, my company name is Campbells Stump Grinding and Equipment Services, i think i need a make change.  There used to be a restaurant called Stump Water Inn and I've always liked that name. Wonder if i could change mine to Stump Water Sawmill and Stump Grinding

WV Sawmiller

DH,

   There are some good old threads here about naming conventions when setting up a company. I'd go back and read them before you make the final decision. If like here you will need to register your company and get a license. I don't know if you can just change your existing name or pretty much have to start over. Your company name needs to be catchy and descriptive. You want people to notice you but also tell them what you offer. Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Why not call it StumpWorks, Inc??? That way you're not limited to sawmilling and stump removal...

Herb
(No fee for use of my suggestion, send contribution to Forestry Forum (small, unmarked bills please).


WV Sawmiller

   IMHO not descriptive enough for most customer to recognize it as a sawmill.

   Maybe something like Stumpworks Sawmilling and Stump Grinding, Stumpworks Sawmill Services and Stump Grinding, Stump Grinding and Sawmill Services, etc.

   Make a list and show them to several friends and see what they think and what they tell you the name tells them.

   Remember whatever you decide on will need to (Should?) fit on one line on your business cards and any stationary, invoices, etc
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

dirthawger

Thanks for the ideas. It was actually stump water but i didn't realize stump water is a nasty smelling substance, haha. I was curious how do i find how much logs go for?

dirthawger

Ran into a problem at this next job. I haven't been there yet but ill start hauling tomorrow,  i think.  The tree guy bid 50 pines for $5000. The land owner apparently got a sawmill out there and was going to pay the land owner $2000 for the trees but they said they weren't going to do it because there's a lot of powerlines so they declined and no loggers in the area wanted to mess with 50 pines. Well the land owner told the tree guy that someone underbid him and he ended up doing it for $2700. So he wrapped it up today but said the guy shorted him $500 because there were 6 pines that he said he couldn't get down because he wouldve had to cut down a few oaks or they'd fall into the highway. Now the tree guy said im free to do with them what i want. It was a pretty long drive to haul them to my house so i found a sawmill that said i coukd bring them by and if they like them i can haul them all there. 

Now im not really sure what to do. Theres no sawmills or loggers that will come get them.  He wanted them cut down either way but he was gonna try and get money for them.  I told the tree guy that if i was able to sell them for a good price then id give him enough to cover his lose, so about $2500. The tree guy told me not to mention bringing them to a sawmill because he said hes a rich man that wants to screw everyone and hed probably not let me haul them off and dump them into the lake that the property is on. He was also asking what i was planning on doing with them. So you see the potential issues i could have tomorrow.

The man wanted these trees cut down. When he saw that no loggers would do it he hired this guy to cut them and the tree guy wanted me to haul them off for my own personal use. Now do i have an obligation to inform the property owner what i plan on doing? Or is this an instance where i just say im building a log cabin shop, which isn't entirely false since i built one last year and plan on building a better one with some of these trees. Or do i try and let him bring up selling to the sawmill and give him a cut? Very confused on what to do need some good advice.

Peter Drouin

I'd let them lay there, and move on.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

SlowJoeCrow

Kinda sounds like a mess that I would not want to be associated with.

YellowHammer

I recommend to not get involved as a third party in a two party deal that has gone sideways.





 

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WV Sawmiller

   Ditto my thoughts. If in dispute don't get involved. You have your reputation to protect and there is already bad blood from the way I understand your telling.  smiley_horserider
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

starmac

I second the moving on advice. If I touched them at all based on the info you have given us, the terms would be in writing.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

dirthawger

Well i went over there just to see what the deal is, no harm in looking.  There's always 2 sides of a story.  I showed up and was trying to get a feel for him and the man was actually a really nice guy. He was mad because the tree guy didn't cut down near what he was supposed to. After seeing what he originally was wanting and paid for....yea i can see why he would be mad. I mean there looked to be 20 some odd trees he didn't cut down. And today was a day of heavy learning about selling to sawmills and grading logs. I decided to take a test load to a sawmill wanting saw logs. The lady was very rude and wasnt going to take them but i was able to charm her enough to take them and she paid $38 a ton and we made $114 on 3 logs. So i we decided to find other places incase she wouldnt take them. Found a pulpwood yard and they were about the nicest people I've meet. Really showed me what to look for and hit off with the owner prettt good,  and he said he needs guys like me and my bro in law that will take  small tracts cause lots of people come in there wanting their 3-5 acres logged but it's not economical for them to do it. So he took my info and said he will send them our way.  Would love to just sell all the logs to them but they only paid $22 a ton which im sure is great for pulp but i might try and wear a better pair of overalls and try and get that lady to take them.  They also had a bunch of beautiful cedar logs. His eyes lit up when i told him id buy them. Sold them to me for $22 a ton.

Now, having said all this, when i got home the tree guy called to see how it went. Well, it appears my tree guy has gotten a little greedy because at the start of this he told me i can just have the logs. So i thought id try and sweeten the deal for him in an attempt to keep the work coming in. I know nothing about pricing logs or logging in general but i knew he said he had to underbid $2000 to get the job so i told him.

IF i get $10k id definitly give him $2000+, you know just trying to keep his work. Thats with me loading all the logs and hauling with my equipment.  I've learned quite a bit since then and there's no way i can get $10k. Me and my bro in law can make a little but not no $10k. Definitely not enough to divy it out 3 ways and me make a profit especially with all my expenses. I figured hed understand and just go back to the original deal and no harm no foul, i was most certainly wrong.  He told me as long as he can get a little money for his pocket hed be happy. I tested the waters and asked him just what exactly do you mean alittle money because there's only going to be a little money to be made. So I gave him a hypotheatical scenario that if i were to make $5000 which will not happen but if it did, how much do you want? He told me hed be happy with $2000-2500 to cover his losses. So this man that was complaining about the land owner being greedy now pretty much wants %50 of what i make. Thats after hes already made $2000 just cutting the trees down, not to mention me and my partner are having to cut the logs up because he didn't cut them all the way through. I have all the risk with equipment break downs,  we had to do all the leg work to learn how to even sell these things,  and all the expenses and he wants 50%.

I know this is long but bear with me im still going somewhere with all this.  So the so called greedy land owner said i could cut down and have all the trees he didn't which will be easy with my tractor, not to mention the big oaks too, and he is giving me some a very nice cedar log, giving me the stump grinding work and not to mention he got on his personal tractor to give me and my partner a hand.  And his other buddy that lives next to him wants us to cut his land with twice as much wood, plus stumps.

So it sounds like the tree guy is the one doing all the screwing. So im at another crossroads. My gut tells me to ask the land owner if hed mind me trying to sell the logs to a mill because its not economical for me to haul them to my house that's 1 hour away.  Which i have a strong feeling he wont care hes just mad because he didn't get what was agreed upon. And just cut my business ties with that tree guy because I've seen that i can get the work as well.  Heck we got 2 extra big jobs just by being respectful and nice and maybe even a ton more from the timber company.

Sorry for the long post but im a new business owner and this is a complicated situation to me. But i see my opportunity to break into a niche I've been looking for and not sure what the best thing to do. By the way got my sawmill on the way and if i had that rig with me now this would probably all be a non issue cause hed most likely hire me to mill it up.

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