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Author Topic: Large hardwood sawing question  (Read 653 times)

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Offline newdesertfox

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Large hardwood sawing question
« on: December 04, 2017, 12:30:27 am »
Question for more experienced people, I'm somewhat newer to sawing mostly having dealt in softwoods. I have a LT40 super and I have someone who downed a very nice red oak in their pasture and he asked if I'd split sawing were he got 25% and I got 75%. Works pretty well for me, anyways the trunk is roughly 39" diameter all the way through, 14' long. Original plan had been to crack it with black-powder but with the help of 2 tractors managed to load it onto the trailer. Now my question is this, what would be the most lucrative plan to saw the monstrosity for money? My plan is to try and sell nearly all of it to recoup costs for other things, being red oak Im guessing quarter sawing would be the format, what would be best sizes for sawing for people to purchase in a non custom order? Never really run hardwoods and I've mostly been sawing horse fencing/boards so it wanted to hear from the experts. Other question, I know this varies by state and location but what is somewhat normal of a price for QS red oak? I've normally aimed for $0.50-65 a board foot for soft woods so I was thinking $1.40 a board foot but again curious to hear what others say. I cut a large beam out of oak 2 months ago and sold it for $2 a board foot but I can grade lumber for construction so I don't know if that's more valuable graded hardwood then normal softwood for cuts as most framing is in softwoods. The $2 a foot was based on another much larger sawmill's price quote for the same beam but their a massive operation.
Thanks for any advice

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 05:21:29 am »
Quartersawing it will give you the best ROI if you are able to get high-fleck boards that are clear and wide. I usually for for 4/4 since QS is pretty dimensionally stable, but go to 5/4 over 12" since some cupping may occur.

Have you scanned it for metal?

I'd think if you successfully get wide boards with high-fleck, you're looking at multipliers of what prices you have listed.  8)
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Offline newdesertfox

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 10:22:03 am »
So mostly aim for 4/4 unless cutting over 12' and then try for 5/4, yes and no on metal. I looked the tree over before he cut it down and about 15 years ago sadly a fence was installed on it so we located the top line and cut about 1-2' above the fence, pity trunk would have been 18-20' otherwise. I looked up high fleck QS boards and their pretty interesting, never really saw them before. What are more common widths? I'd heard of people cutting 6,8,10 widths with varies in 3/4 and 6/4 but thats all I've heard. I checked around and most sawmills around my AO charge a starting of $2 for cut oak going as high as $5 a board foot

Offline Den-Den

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 10:36:27 am »
Hardwood is commonly sold random width, no need to cut down 7" wide board to 6" before selling.  Keep the  boards as wide as possible.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 06:45:50 pm »
You do not typically mill quartersawn to a specific width.  Rather you mill the maximum width boards that the log can produce.

You will produce the highest amount of high fleck material if you follow FF Member Yellowhammers tutorial on "reverse roll quartersawing".  It is very important to center the pith in both planes of you will mill boards that have high fleck on one end and low fleck on the other.

Personally I jump from 4/4 to 5/4 at the 6" + width range.  Most of the buyers for wider QS boards want 5/4.

Keep in mind that QS shrinks more in thickness than FS.  Add 1/8" for 4/4 boards and 3/16" for 5/4 boards.

For air dried material if I were you I'd start at $3.00 bd ft, and increase your price for boards wider than 8".
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Offline GAB

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 07:24:05 pm »
You do not typically mill quartersawn to a specific width.  Rather you mill the maximum width boards that the log can produce.

You will produce the highest amount of high fleck material if you follow FF Member Yellowhammers tutorial on "reverse roll quartersawing".  It is very important to center the pith in both planes of you will mill boards that have high fleck on one end and low fleck on the other.

Personally I jump from 4/4 to 5/4 at the 6" + width range.  Most of the buyers for wider QS boards want 5/4.

Keep in mind that QS shrinks more in thickness than FS.  Add 1/8" for 4/4 boards and 3/16" for 5/4 boards.

For air dried material if I were you I'd start at $3.00 bd ft, and increase your price for boards wider than 8".

If the boards have a lot of nice fleck you could possibly charge a bit more.
Fleck, thickness, width, and length are all factors that should be considered when pricing real nice QS red oak.
GAB
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Offline newdesertfox

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2017, 07:57:58 pm »
Thanks for the all the advice, I'll be sure to study up on his style, :P ah centering the pith must be what Im missing, my test log's pith was off center and I was aiming for center of the log and some boards I was getting really nice looking fleck and others I was getting nothing. Interesting about cutting at 1/8th and up, I've been doing that but just was doing it cause I hate cutting at 1 1/16th off deck as its so close to the arm that holds the log lol. Thanks for the advice on price, how much cheaper does rift sawn normally go anyone know? 10% 25% cheaper? just curious. Lol so if I get a 20" QS board I should probably cut her pretty thick and price it at gold weight?  :D

Offline drobertson

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 08:41:13 pm »
With a big one like this, you for sure have your hands full, I mean all both of them,,there will be more lumber coming off that rascal than you can shake a stick at, and then some. You might as well plan on several stacking locations for the barked flitches, so that you have room left on the loading arms. big wide boards come with their own set of issues once you get to stacking and drying,,being new to oak as you said, I've found that at least around here, most wood workers like to glue narrower boards into panels rather than trying to work the wider ones.  And I did better for the most part reducing the wide 4/4 boards down to  +6 to +8 inch range. If you've sawn pine, then you know what to look for in grain patterns and defects, so, I'd say take your time, it will take some, and have by all means good new blades for the job,  those humpty dumpty's  seem to take a toll on band blades, and yea, you will find some metal, pretty sure about that,
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2017, 09:47:34 pm »
Not to hijack the thread but the OP mentioned using black powder to break open the log.  I have a fair bit of experience with explosives thanks to Uncle Sam and have seen what a breaching charge shock wave will do to framing material 30' away.  Has anyone ever blasted a log and then sawn it?  I am wondering what the shock wave does to the integrity of the wood fiber. 
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Offline newdesertfox

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2017, 11:39:54 pm »
Yeah that is the downside, I have 30 blades, but I bought the sawmill used so non are marked >.< so its a guessing game lol but already went through 2 blades. But yeah I already started clearing out new stacking locations, although Im thinking it might be smart to try and stack different cuts in different stacks then just random stacks. Hope to have a kiln operational within 2 months so it would be getting moved there eventually. I was hoping to get a little cash out of the sawing but he's a pretty decent guy and he said Im only looking for enough to make a swing set out of and you can have the rest I plugged in the figures and was like yeah I can do that lol. should make 2-4x minimum what I would have just cutting for cash. Def gonna take it slow for the learning and not to mess up anything. I personally have not blasted (hope to be UXO Tech 1 by next year but not currently), although I know of a sawmill operation that does blast any large logs they get in and they mentioned it was a learning curve on the charge (first det they blasted the oak in half with the halves being about 40 feet apart but if you cut into the heart and do a shaped charge with wet sand or liquid similar to a breaching charge the shock wave follows the grain pretty good and seems to give a decently clean crack. If I determine to blast crack it I'll document and report back on technique and results. Research seemed to indicate that a 1-2 cup charge of BP should be enough to open it up provided there were no hollows in it

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Large hardwood sawing question
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 06:39:05 am »
Personally I would stay away from using sand, water or jello yes, but that sand is going to imbed into the grain.  A big circular saw running carbide inserts may not have an issue with it but that stuff will sure wreck havoc with your bands.  Be some careful if you go this route, just by the nature of it wood will have a lot of sand, stone, and other sources of friction in it and BP can be quite sensitive.  If you know someone with a license ANFO and a cap would be a safer option. 

Just FYI I sawed a large red oak for a customer a few weeks back and we split that log using a 372 Husky and a 24" bar, total sawing time was probably 20 minutes.  Ran a chalk line down the edge to keep it straight, sawed through one side, rolled it over, ran the line down the other to match the cuts up, she fell in two, and everyone had their eyebrows when it was done.   :D
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