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Author Topic: Wheel Harvesters  (Read 2192 times)

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Offline Skeans1

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Wheel Harvesters
« on: November 29, 2017, 09:28:05 am »
We do commercial thinning in NW Oregon with a JD 653 with a fabtek 4 roller for 20+ years and the time has come to finally replace the old girl. We've been back east to see the Barko 240 with a Skidmore, we had a fabtek 153 out for demo in 06, this last year I spent part of a day running a Komatsu 931 6 wheel, then not long ago I tried a Rottne H14 with a sp 561 on it. What are your guys experience with different machines as well as the pros and cons.

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 10:13:20 am »
If I were you, I'd take a serious look at the Ponsse machines. I know Ponsse has a service center in Oregon and because they have had record sales of new machines in recent years, they have a good supply of good used trade ins.

Without knowing more about what terrain, type of trees, etc it's hard to give pros and cons about different machines. Plus I've only run Ponsse machines plus some older Valmets.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Gearbox

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 10:51:59 am »
Hi Skeans1 . Welcome I used to live in Clatskanie and still have a friend that retired out of Wana.
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 10:52:56 am »
If I were you, I'd take a serious look at the Ponsse machines. I know Ponsse has a service center in Oregon and because they have had record sales of new machines in recent years, they have a good supply of good used trade ins.

Without knowing more about what terrain, type of trees, etc it's hard to give pros and cons about different machines. Plus I've only run Ponsse machines plus some older Valmets.
Terrain here can be steep, timber is mainly Doug fir, hemlock, true fir, spruce, then some hardwoods like alder. We looked at the ponsse down in Coburg they were ok a local company has one set a scorpion king as well as a Buffalo king that I know they've busted a few times but these guys can break anything plus the price is way out of line.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 10:54:05 am »
Hi Skeans1 . Welcome I used to live in Clatskanie and still have a friend that retired out of Wana.
Nice I'm actually working up on the old Fibre Clatskanie heights 100 line beautiful area to live in.

Offline Gearbox

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 11:01:42 am »
You can see Dave's house from there . He lives on top to the hill from the Grocery store . I ran an old KW for Evenson in 68 an69 .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2017, 01:01:17 pm »
There is always a reason why some companies sell more machines and they cost more.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2017, 03:40:49 pm »
There is always a reason why some companies sell more machines and they cost more.
In a clear cut you can justify a higher expensive on equipment but with thinning can you justify a 100k+ for the harvester?
I don't disagree they're nice but they're new out here still the standard for years was track machines, TJ 1270, and komatsu 931 have become super popular.
Rottne has a parts program like no one I've ever seen or heard of before.
There's a 1270G 8 wheel out here as well as a 931xc 8 wheel then two Rottne H14 & a H21.
On the scorpion with the boom all the way down can you get out of the cab? How have the heads held up back there in the hardwoods?

Online barbender

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2017, 04:34:18 pm »
If you can't justify more than $100k for the harvester, all you're going to find is wore out junk, I think. There are quite a few Ponsse machines working thinnings out there, not just clearcuts. I was under the impression that most of the machines were in thinnings.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 06:10:23 pm »
If you can't justify more than $100k for the harvester, all you're going to find is wore out junk, I think. There are quite a few Ponsse machines working thinnings out there, not just clearcuts. I was under the impression that most of the machines were in thinnings.
I know the prices of the new machines but what I meant is the 100k to 250k over say the quotes of the others. Yes there's some ponsse's out here in thinning as well as clear cuts, Miller has 4 set, L&L has a set, C&C has a set one of which we know personally and probably could try his scorpion but it's hard to justify the extra when the prices are as high as they are. We've been down to the Coburg facility with decent parts and people but that's almost 3 hours one way for parts for us.

Online barbender

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 08:19:46 pm »
Gotcha. They are definitely an expensive machine, and take my opinion with a grain of salt- I just sit in a seat of one for someone else. You know your markets and margins. They have made the machines a lot more robust over the years, when they first showed up in North America they took a pretty bad beating getting thrown into hardwood. They hold up much better now.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 08:58:54 pm »
Why is there a shift from the tracked machines for thinning? Is there a directive from the land owners/ managers that they want wheeled machines to be used on their land?
New machine evaluation - look for the positives in your old machine and try and find them in a new machine.
Cat 501 HD track machine, 163 hp, good visibility.


John Deere 1170e 6x6 (how far off are Deere from bringing out a g series?) bigger crane than the 1070, 10 000lbs lighter than a 1270 8 wheeler, 1170e similar weight to the JD 653? but with more power.  John Deere Forestry Oy in Joensuu, Finland manufactures log forwarders, wheeled harvesters and harvesting heads.


1270e 8 wheel

The TCs new and used - a new TC 1135 wheeled, 228 horsepower,(big dollars)    Tigercat LX822C used 600 miles from pdx. put a pierce harvester boom/ arm on it with processing head of choice. TC has the steep ground trans and levelling, cummins etc. (Is it legal to bring low tier engines across the border or bring it across the line engineless?) Is California dumping the old low tier diesel trucks in Or still?
https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/list/category/31437/forestry-equipment-feller-buncher/manufacturer/tigercat/model/lx822c


TC H820D   (Even title in the video is incorrect    http://www.tigercat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/H820D-LH820D-6pg-FINAL-web.pdf) Contact TC and see if any smaller machines are in the plans if 280 hp is too much)







Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2017, 10:55:24 pm »
Why is there a shift from the tracked machines for thinning? Is there a directive from the land owners/ managers that they want wheeled machines to be used on their land?
New machine evaluation - look for the positives in your old machine and try and find them in a new machine.
Cat 501 HD track machine, 163 hp, good visibility.


John Deere 1170e 6x6 (how far off are Deere from bringing out a g series?) bigger crane than the 1070, 10 000lbs lighter than a 1270 8 wheeler, 1170e similar weight to the JD 653? but with more power.  John Deere Forestry Oy in Joensuu, Finland manufactures log forwarders, wheeled harvesters and harvesting heads.


1270e 8 wheel

The TCs new and used - a new TC 1135 wheeled, 228 horsepower,(big dollars)    Tigercat LX822C used 600 miles from pdx. put a pierce harvester boom/ arm on it with processing head of choice. TC has the steep ground trans and levelling, cummins etc. (Is it legal to bring low tier engines across the border or bring it across the line engineless?) Is California dumping the old low tier diesel trucks in Or still?
https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/list/category/31437/forestry-equipment-feller-buncher/manufacturer/tigercat/model/lx822c


TC H820D   (Even title in the video is incorrect    http://www.tigercat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/H820D-LH820D-6pg-FINAL-web.pdf) Contact TC and see if any smaller machines are in the plans if 280 hp is too much)

One reason I'm thinking of switching is there's wind of us being required to tether thin so other then a 725 leveler which is honestly on the heavy side for good stand quality as well as width a track machine is out.
John Deere has been a good machine but the issue becomes parts after 10 years which is one reason I have to get rid of this 653 there's a section in the valve that is unique to only that machine.
Tigercat is a great machine but the issue is weight as well as width would make it a no go from the start.
Cat has the same issue as Deere and personally our dealer out here isn't good for much other then big equipment such as a 568. But I'm done with the 4 roller yes Robin designed a great head but the hoses and maintenance gets old as well as no bottom knife kills production right now yes we push 3 to 4 loads a day easy with a 2 man crew but having to pull the top knives over the butt is a time killer.
The Barko and Skidmore would work but the requirements that they put on us for row spacing have made it tough plus the weight of a 22" head has gotten a little out of hand.
Sp Maskiner heads look like a good tough head, ponsse look like a good head, komatsu c144, as well as the Deere 480.

Offline 1270d

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2017, 11:03:09 pm »
You can get out of a scorpion with the boom down.  Terry from L&L did a very good comparison vid eo of 1270g vs scorpion king.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2017, 11:04:29 pm »
Gotcha. They are definitely an expensive machine, and take my opinion with a grain of salt- I just sit in a seat of one for someone else. You know your markets and margins. They have made the machines a lot more robust over the years, when they first showed up in North America they took a pretty bad beating getting thrown into hardwood. They hold up much better now.
We are a complete in house set up with 3 guys total myself cutting, one guy on a forwarder, then the other owner the truck driver, I don't have anything against them other then the price and what I've heard from around the grapevine about them which has good as well as bad. If I wasn't an owner operator I wouldn't care what I had to run as long as it ran and preformed the task at hand, but being one it makes you think about everything from fuel to parts to what the dealer is like.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2017, 11:06:36 pm »
You can get out of a scorpion with the boom down.  Terry from L&L did a very good comparison vid eo of 1270g vs scorpion king.
I saw that and have seen that 1270 in person it's a big girl now for height which makes me wonder about moving the machine around on our ground bearing lowboy for both machines or even a komatsu.

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 11:07:01 pm »
There's a newer Valmet 931.4 ? Working next to my house, operator says in redpine its great but dont get into much hardwood. We "used to" have a weight limit and width limit on state jobs here, I've heard region 6 is trying to deter guys from rubber iron, supposedly because of compaction but I don't get it.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 11:16:25 pm »
 

 
Here's some of the fir we can be in down to dog hair stands, our alder is a softer hardwood it's different almost never grows straight but loves to pop or chair out.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2017, 11:19:23 pm »
There's a newer Valmet 931.4 ? Working next to my house, operator says in redpine its great but dont get into much hardwood. We "used to" have a weight limit and width limit on state jobs here, I've heard region 6 is trying to deter guys from rubber iron, supposedly because of compaction but I don't get it.
Isn't that the 931xc 8 wheel if so there's one out here.
There's no real weight limit out here maybe on state wood but company thinning we don't, I know they prefer us to stay under 50k for weight. For compaction I'd think a forwarder would be worse for that with how many trips you make over the same area.

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Re: Wheel Harvesters
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2017, 06:53:33 am »
I've heard region 6 is trying to deter guys from rubber iron, supposedly because of compaction but I don't get it.

That doesn't make any sense a rubber tire machine with bogie axles has less ground pressure and much less ground disturbance than a tracked machine.... Through a set or two of over the tire tracks on the bogies and the ground pressure can be less than that of a pickup truck.