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Author Topic: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood  (Read 705 times)

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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« on: November 26, 2017, 05:40:08 pm »
Guesses as to what kind of wood this is?

No leaves to help.  I find the bark distinctive.   

Two of the photos are of radial and one tangential surface.

Hand lens end grain looks like semi ring porous or diffuse porous, pores are on the larger side and I don't see tyloses.

The wood is a nut brown color and on the denser/heavier end of the spectrum. 

  

  

  

 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline low_48

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 11:24:04 pm »
Butternut?

Offline WDH

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 07:35:38 am »
I think that it is hickory.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2017, 10:27:53 am »
Here is another view, this of end grain.  It has only about 1/2" sapwood out of 10-11 " of radius.  It has been on the ground awhile, the sapwood is probably grayed. 

I have sawn a lot of hickory but have always seen hickory having 25% or more very white sapwood.  Never 5%.  What kind of hickory would it be? From the bark it is not shagbark hickory. 



 

No this is not a leftover piece of pumpkin pie from last Thursday.  :D
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Online Don P

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2017, 10:36:33 am »
It reminds me of elm but the bark seems wrong  ???

Online LeeB

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2017, 11:07:07 am »
I thought maybe elm too. Can you get a closer shot of the end grain?
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 01:06:33 pm »
Below is a more magnified endgrain photo. Direction of tree growth is from right to left (sapwood edge is to the left, not shown).
If you expand it on your screen you can see more detail.

 

 

There is no waviness at all to the arrangement of pores, latewood or otherwise, along the parenchyma,  as described by Hoadley for slippery, American, and winged elm (p 105, his Identifying wood, 1990 printing).  To me, the pores look mostly solitary and larger, and the parenchyma are faint compared to the rays.

This wood looks semi ring-porous to me.  With respect to the distribution of the pores, as well as in not having wavy bands of tiny latewood pores within the parenchyma, it does not have the ring-porous look of the elms from the Hoadley book.  His pictures of elms show a more noticeably narrower band of large pores only in the early wood.  I am tempted to say this looks more like the pore distribution of walnut and butternut but I am not at all sure.

Esp since WDH thought it might be hickory.

Again any further help is welcome, thanks
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 08:50:18 pm »
Not elm.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline btulloh

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 11:22:46 am »
Looks like chestnut oak to me.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 04:40:42 pm »
I still say that it is hickory.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2017, 04:47:49 pm »
I still say that it is hickory.
Do you have a hickory species in mind?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline WDH

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 07:31:03 am »
Mockernut hickory.  It is a hickory for sure, and, most likely mockernut.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=22
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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2017, 08:32:10 am »
That is unlike any mockernut I've ever opened up. Mockernut is known as white hickory for its wide band of white sapwood and the heartwood looks sort of washed out colorwise when side by side with shagbark.

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2017, 04:51:05 pm »
I will measure the density when I get a chance.  Mockernut hickory should be 0.64 and butternut 0.38

If anyone knows of a photo of 10x endgrain for mockernut that would be helpful.

Again there is only 0.5" out of about 10" radius,  of sapwood.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2017, 06:00:18 pm »
Just some sanded scanner shots. Mockernut on top and what I'm pretty sure was a chunk of red elm. It sure ain't the elm and the pore structure looks like the hickory, but that batch of paneling I took a cut from is 6 and 8" T&G of bright white hickory, it generates that much white wood. I've cut a hickory with narrow sapwood... bitternut, pignut? We have mostly mockernut and shagbark here.


edit;
This wall was done using the homeowners shagbark that fell across the driveway and took the electrician 5 batteries in his sawzall to get through, luckily just the top. It was very close but I had to stick a little mockernut in with it. I see 3 pieces in the middle section of paneling, see the difference in the heartwood color.

Offline runmca

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2017, 07:06:35 pm »
in the Bark book by Wojtech:

Butternut - ridges are flattened and burnished, as if they have been sanded and polished

Mockernut - sides of ridges are uneven, but smoothed (like river stones or sea glass)

based on the pictures in the book I would say closer to Mockernut
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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 08:10:33 pm »

Offline WDH

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 08:55:18 pm »
The amount of heartwood increases with age and with environmental stress. 
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2017, 05:03:48 pm »
I will measure the density when I get a chance.  Mockernut hickory should be 0.64 and butternut 0.38
Well, I measured the density at 0.51 g/cubic centimeter.   

To do this I cut a little block of green wood and microwaved then oven dried it to a constant weight of 26.5 grams.  I used the average of the wet volume and oven dried volume (which were within 5% of each other anyway) which was 2.15 x 2.15 x 11.25 = 52.0 cubic centimeters.   26.5 divided by 52 = 0.51. 

Wouldn't you know this density of 0.51 g/cc is exactly the average of the reported densities of mockernut hickory and butternut?    Now what?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline WDH

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Re: Help ID dense nut brown hardwood
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2017, 08:21:49 pm »
Put it on the sawmill.  if you saw it and you get waves, it surely is a mockernut  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com