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Author Topic: New Toy (Tool)  (Read 2249 times)

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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2017, 09:22:09 am »
I finally decided to "fix" my pork chop.  I got tired on hitting it with my hip and having to lean over so far to get around it.  So I did a little surgery with a saw and cut the protruding edge.  This way I am protected for the narrower boards and I'm going to buy another pork chop for the wide ones. 





I am still amazed at how flat the machine faces boards.  A couple days ago, after stacking up a thousand bdft of kiln dried rough sawn walnut to send to the planer, we pulled the ugliest ones, i.e. ones with zig zag, warp, twist, cup, bow, ones we knew we were going to hand work when they came back.  So we decided to shortcut that, and face these cull boards while they are still at maximum thickness so I could take as much as possible off to try to correct them.  I wanted to see if it is reasonable to work them rough sawn, one cut and without an unreasonable amount of effort.  With my older jointer, I would have had to take three passes, two at the minimum, to get to max correctable cut before I couldn't plane the other side and get a 3/4" inch board.  So I set the SCMi machine for 3/16" depth of cut, and wanted to only make one pass to try to get a flat side.  We then went from the jointer directly into the planer, assembly line fashion, and stacked the boards.  We were both very surprised and impressed as to how flat the boards were, and can be sold as full length.  I still don't understand why it doesn't take much effort to take such deep cuts.  Its amazingly easy to push the boards while hogging.  Is it the new style cutter head?  Is it because its such a large diameter cutter?  Is it the grooved bed?  I don't know, but I did all these boards and my back didn't hurt.  You can see how flat they are laying on the cart.   


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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 06:32:38 pm »
looks good.
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 06:54:44 pm »
How about some more info on your cart?
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lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline muggs

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2017, 07:17:38 pm »
I bought a cart just like it from Harbor Freight. Very handy 8)    Muggs

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2017, 10:50:50 pm »
How about some more info on your cart?
Yeah, it's a HF hydraulic rolling lift table with the handle removed.  These types of lift carts are great for stacking and rolling around relatively large amounts of wood.  No more bending over, just reach down and grab a board off the stack in the cart.  When the stack goes down and you have to bend over, pump the hydraulic lever with your foot, and the whole stack comes back up where you want it. 
These are also great as height adjustable out feed tables for planers, table saws and our straight line rip. 
For this operation, we drove the pallet of wood into the shop next to the jointer infeed with the forklift.  The boards come off the forklift into the jointer and then fed directly into the planer by the jointer operator.  As the board comes out of the planer, another person gets the boards and inspects them and dresses the ends with the chop saw if necessary and then places them on the roller table.  When everything is done, the forklift is used to lift all the boards off the roller table and carry them to the shelves where they are stocked.  If the stack gets too high, hit the hydraulic release and the table drops down to a more comfortable position. 
These little roller tables are very useful.
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Offline WDH

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2017, 07:42:58 am »
I use one at the outfeed of my planer for the thick heavy slabs.  Thru the planer, on to the hydraulic roller table, roll back around to front of planer for the next pass, etc.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline teakwood

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2017, 12:39:17 am »
Nice!

Know you just need a real planner to match the jointer! Something like this:
Just be prepared to dig deep in you wallet 



Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2017, 06:57:45 am »
My material goes to some Amish dudes (no joke) who have a jointer/planer combo...hitch is, that is does BOTH in one pass! Joints and then planes 2 sides. It's awesome.  :o

I have to look at the brand next time I'm there. It's mighty impressive no doubt, at like 30" wide.  :D
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
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Offline Don P

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2017, 08:02:29 am »
Sounds like an Oliver Strait-o-plane.
For a blast from the past, a facer, this is another way of face jointing lumber, scroll down the pics and notice the spring loaded fingers for the feed chain
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=27973

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2017, 09:39:43 am »
Thankfully, I don't have to plane a lot of my wood.  I used to, but I was spending too much time planing.  So I cut a deal with a local mill work shop and now I carry a trailer load of of my kiln dried rough sawn wood to get planed most every week.



My wood gets run through three different types of machines.  One is an old Stratoplane and it does not take out long bow of 4/4 boards, which is critical for our customers.  Another is a nice Pinheiro multihead and it won't take long bow out of long boards, either.  I also get wood planed from a place that has a high end two sided planer, I'm not sure of the model and make, but it keeps 3 off bearers busy.  I have no idea how much to cost, but it must have been very high.  It does petty well, but I have the feeling it cost more than my house.  I pay each of these places a surfacing fee so I don't have to use my planer for bulk planing anymore, mostly for the smaller 1,000 bdft and under jobs.

Due to this out sourcing, I get a real good idea of the limitations of some of these machines, old and new. 

So as these loads come back planed to 15/16", and we stock the shelves, we pull these boards that have noticeable board length bow and generally have to hand work them to 3/4" to make them flat, if possible.  The long boards are flexible so I haven't seen anything yet that can feed the boards and not flex them down to the bed.

I highly considered one of these, but didn't see how this would be any better than what is being used already.



I almost bought one of these, an automatic facer, with a rubber fingered carpet to gently hold the wood, but, it s true import and service was going to be an issue.  Its a copy of an older facer, and I'd never seen one run to compare results.


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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2017, 10:22:37 am »
Unfortunately, I haven't actually seen one of the sock feeders Tule Peak has, but I've been very interested in them.
I'm not sure how gentle the finger contact would and how much downpressure it imparts, if it would flex down an 8 foot board, 4/4 board. 
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Offline Larry

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2017, 01:32:57 pm »
I think your being too critical about bow.  Not many projects even use a 8' long board.

A little bow in a 4/4 board shouldn't mean much to most woodworkers.  When I look around I see most desks and tables have aprons.  Cabinets and shelving units have face frames.  Moulding gets nailed to wavy walls.  All are methods to pull bow out during assembly. 

Than there are glue up techniques that can straighten a panel.

Of course rails, stiles, panels, and drawer fronts need to be perfectly flat.  That's why we closely scrutinize the raw boards as to where they go in a project.

Cup is the scourge, followed closely by twist.  Those defects have to be corrected before use.  Bow in anything thicker than 4/4 also becomes a larger problem but its easier to correct.
Larry

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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2017, 03:16:07 pm »
I agree, but our customers don't, and it's been a painful lesson for us over the years.  We had to do a bit of soul searching for this investment, but in the end, we figured we had no real alternative.  We sell high grade boards, we charge a fair price, and our customers pay it.  However, it's difficult to convince somebody who is paying $30 to $50 dollars per board to buy a bowed one if there is a stack of dead straight boards next to it on the rack.
 
Just yesterday, we a had decent sale$ to a customer who was standing in line to check out say to a buch of other customers that he got what he wanted and didn't have to buy a single crooked board, and then he thanked us for our high level of quality.  Made us feel good.  Unfortunately, what we have learned is that if we have a stack of straight boards on the rack, and a few bowed ones, then most customers will almost always push the bowed boards to the side and grab the flat one.  Only as a last resort will they purchase a bowed or otherwise defective board.  By the end of the day, all we have on the racks are stacks of mostly bowed or otherwise not great, boards, as the customers have essentially cherry picked.  I can't blame the customers, all things being equal, straighter is better.  Back a few years ago, we would half the board, or quarter it, to reduce the bow, but again customers would still select straight vs defective.  So we would have to deeply discount the bowed boards and try to sell them, but that was problematic and hurt our bottom line.   That's also when we learned what everyone says, that a single sided planer will not flatten a board. ::), no matter how much we tried, at least with any production speed, anyway.  So we invested in the "smaller 12" jointer, began to cut them in half and face them, or try to clean them up full length, or whatever.  More than once, I'd take a full length bowed board, or one with a single knot in it that has been the rack for a couple sale days, cut the knot out, or half the board, straighten it out on the jointer, and it would shortly sell at full price.

We used to have a hardwood store about 40 miles from us that would not let customers pick, and if they did, would charge them extra.  They eventually went out of business.  While they were open, I could usually tell when one of those customers was inbound by the way they were driving, mad as a hornet, and throwing up a cloud of gravel dust.  Also invariably, their first question was, "will you let me pick out my own **!!!** boards?!  So all I had to say was "Sure, why not, they're all fine," and instant new customer.

As you mention, the other reason for this jointer is to flatten our thicker slabs with less effort.  Very few customers will pay $300 for a bowed, cupped or twisted slab.  Our planer does OK but this SCMi machine will flatten a slab to "cast iron" perfect.  Amazing what it will do.  I used to have to do it on the sawmill after it was dried, no more, thankfully. 

Due to their new machine, the word has spread, and we are now are having customers start showing to face and joint their boards for them, some bought other places.  Many have only a table saw to straighten an edge, some the usual 6" or 4" jointers and are struggling with them.  50 cents per bdft for me to face and plane their boards, 50 cents per bdft to joint their boards, and not only are they happy, but they generally become a new customer. 
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Online Ed_K

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2017, 04:55:36 pm »
 YellowHammer, what was the reason for not using the sawmill? I've been thinking of adding a router to my all manual sawmill.
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Offline WDH

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2017, 07:10:48 pm »
Bow in boards is a killer.  My customers will not buy bowed boards, either.  The jointer is invaluable, and like Robert says, you can cut a bowed board in half, face joint it flat, plane it flat, and sell it at full price.  I am referring to boards only 3' to 4' long.  They sell if they are flat.  If not, they don't sell and I am constantly handling them. 
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Offline Don P

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2017, 08:15:52 pm »
Is it worth gluing them into panels, alternate bow then face joint/plane

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2017, 09:06:04 pm »
YellowHammer, what was the reason for not using the sawmill? I've been thinking of adding a router to my all manual sawmill.
Quite unexpectedly, I discovered that when straightening pallet quantities of kiln dried, slightly bowed, cupped or curved slabs where the band does more skimming and light cutting than full kerf cutting, the tooth set will be removed from the bottom side of the band after several cuts, maybe a dozen slabs or so depending on species, although everything appears to be fine.  So while the band is still sharp, burying the band in the cut, full kerf, is not a problem and for the first dozen or so clean up cuts everything goes very well.  Skim it, cut it, slice it, no problem, flat as a pancake.

However, after top skimming a bunch of slabs, if the band ever needs to dig in full kerf, full width, disaster! The band will dip down, and dive into the cut like a porpoise on the bow wave of the Calypso and ruin the slab.  Basically, the band will behave like a band that is not only dull and has also lost its set on only one side, which is exactly what has happened.  Ouch!!

The solution is to change the band out more often, which I only seems to do after I've had a massive dive.

I wish I had never sold my LT15, because if I hadn't there would be an MP100 planer sitting on it.  I think that would be perfect. 
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2017, 10:56:11 pm »
Is it worth gluing them into panels, alternate bow then face joint/plane
I don't know, haven't tried that.  Some people might buy the ready made panels. 
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Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 06:12:48 am »
If WM makes an MP200 (for LT15 wide), I'll order one today!  8)
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: New Toy (Tool)
« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 09:47:41 pm »
In a way YH I do the same here, I don't sell shorter than 8'. I cut and stick right off the mill. When a customer comes to get lumber They will not buy bowed lumber. I cull it when we go through the stack. If I can run it through the edger and fix it I will. Sometimes a board might have a split in it.
I give it to the customer for free. They can get a 2 to 4' piece out of it.
They love that, saves me from chipping it.  :D :D
So If it's a $50 piece or a $10 piece it has to be straight. :D :D ;)
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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