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Can anyone identify this machine?

Started by Taylorg, November 20, 2017, 01:25:38 AM

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Taylorg

Hello everyone, new to the forum and looking at learning a few things while I'm here. I'm interested in a machine but the owner cannot give me any real info on it. I have not gone to look at it yet and I cant identify it from the picture. What he can tell me is is has a 172 ford industrial engine and a 4 speed fwd and 4 reverse trans. Hopefully someone has come across something like this to give me a starting point for my own research. Thanks in advance.



 

bushmechanic

Looks to me like it started out life as a C4 Tree Farmer. Heavily modified by the looks of it. It may also been a C3 if it has the 172 Ford in it. 

thecfarm

I got the grapple in the front. But what is the front part for. Almost looks like a hopper?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

47sawdust

Looks like a pain to get in to and out of.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

mike_belben

Im gonna say it was a skidder until the cab and dash were spun and the loader was built.  The curl back linkages look to be C channel.  The cab mounts are definitely shop built... Loader is pretty funky,  maybe off an old skid steer. 

The panels on top are wierd too.  I suspect the might actually be rail or debris shields for the cylinders and hoses.  Theyre probably not even attached.. Note the color difference.  I think theyre a set of basement bulkhead doors plopped ontop.

I dunno but i want it.  Flawless bucket setup.
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Ask the owner if it has 1 forward speed and 3 reverse
Praise The Lord

Taylorg

I agree it sure looked odd from the pictures I saw. Also raised some red flags when the owner didn't know what he had. Looks to be handy if the loader works properly. I'm going to look at it on the weekend and will get back with some more information and pictures on how this treefarmer got modified. That being said, is there any weak spots for failure on these machines to look for?

lopet

Quote from: bushmechanic on November 20, 2017, 04:56:56 AM
Looks to me like it started out life as a C4 Tree Farmer. Heavily modified by the looks of it. It may also been a C3 if it has the 172 Ford in it.

X2     Sawmill outfit perhaps ?  Will be interesting to know anyhow.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Iwawoodwork

I like it, looks easy to work on, would be great around a mill or for loading logs. if it runs and operates go for it.

Chop Shop

Garrett Skidder made all kinds of variations of the skidder/loader/shear/grapple/ect.

I swear Ive seen them in my old logging conference books in article/ads from the 60s.

longtime lurker

Clueless about the machine but if it works it works.

One of my personal bugbears... after 80 or more years of mechanical logging why haven't manufacturers figured that maybe a loader type front might be just a little bit more versatile than a decking blade on a woods machine. I have fantasies about a 527 with a 4in1 bucket on the front.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

teakwood

Exactly!

That is why in Europe every newer skidder has a crane mounted in the back of it. surely ten times more versatile than a "normal style" skidder with just the winch and front blade.

i liked this video, excellent operator, he knows were the strong points of his machine are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3QRzHeJW8c
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

BurkettvilleBob

There is always the Pettibone Mountain Logger. I saw one on NH CL with a bucket that slid on the forks.

mike_belben

Dang that was a nice stand of timber. 
Praise The Lord

OH logger

try that in our timber and you better have a buddy handy to help get your wheels on the ground again!!  ;D
john

coxy

I don't see what is so great about it  2 trips digging and pawing  cable would have been one trip even if you had to winch it out and less fuel and less time   jmop  ;D

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

Chop Shop

Quote from: coxy on November 22, 2017, 08:14:30 PM
I don't see what is so great about it  2 trips digging and pawing  cable would have been one trip even if you had to winch it out and less fuel and less time   jmop  ;D

But that would have required the fat lunch box operator to actually get out of the machine and WORK.  :D

barbender

I think those Euro machines would be awesome in a high quality hardwood thin.
Too many irons in the fire

longtime lurker

Quote from: mike_belben on November 21, 2017, 08:03:14 AM
Dang that was a nice stand of timber.

Soooooooo... educate me on why, because I know nothing about deciduous forest or pine for that matter, much less northern hemisphere ones.

Though I got to say compared with where I'm currently working it looked nice in there, like you could walk between the trees and stuff.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

mike_belben

Well, we dont get to see it very well but youll notice there is hardly a forked or branched tree in sight, theyre all straight and tall.  The size distribution is great.  Prime trees ready to be harvested, great looking mid sized stock eager to fill in the holes and clear lower canopy that isnt all choked in with vines, bushy scrub or deadfall.  When a canopy tree is removed the new sun will stimulate new seedlings there which will have a chance to grow, not be smothered by the shade tolerate bushy ground stuff. Theres nothing leaned over into mcdonalds arches, or tangled in ivy.  The spacing is great, room to fell the big stuff but still tight enough to keep trees growing upward instead of outward. 

Its basically what successive generations of great management look like.  Here where i am trying to repair high grading, if i were to cut every junky tree in one wave i would be left with a field and maybe 3 straight trees per acre which would either bush out or blow over immediately after.  And thats starting in a harwood stick farm thats too tight to drive a quad through without a saw.  The junky oak/hickory/maple/poplar that was too small or poor to harvest makes up the crown, the mid story is slow growing shade intolerant hardwoods that couldnt get to the canopy in time before it started to die, and the understory is a shrub thicket of shade tolerant species that grow 5 to 10x faster than the hardwoods im trying to favor.   The sourwood coppice sprouts i cut this time last year are up to 9ft high now.  There isnt an oak or hickory sprout thats made knee height yet.   So im growing a spike forest of sourwood coppice to make a sidelight curtain for oaks and hickory between them. Eventually i will cull the sourwood.


Anyway im beating a dead horse,  3 cuts of high grade on the same lot will leave behind a disaster that would do better to grow hay.  It wont see a timber paycheck in a lifetime of hard repair work.  I am describing the typical unmanaged overharvested middle tennessee forest.  Yet ive been on two here that look like the one in the video.  Only difference is the owners management.  Best and worst practice side by side will really open your eyes.
Praise The Lord

Skeans1

Quote from: teakwood on November 21, 2017, 06:46:13 AM
Exactly!

That is why in Europe every newer skidder has a crane mounted in the back of it. surely ten times more versatile than a "normal style" skidder with just the winch and front blade.

i liked this video, excellent operator, he knows were the strong points of his machine are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3QRzHeJW8c
Out here swinging grapple track skidder and wheel skidder were pretty common for clear cuts as well as thinning, most common was the 527 cat track skidder.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Skeans1 on November 28, 2017, 09:20:29 PM
Out here swinging grapple track skidder and wheel skidder were pretty common for clear cuts as well as thinning, most common was the 527 cat track skidder.
Please update your profile.  ;) Where is "out here"?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Skeans1

Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 28, 2017, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on November 28, 2017, 09:20:29 PM
Out here swinging grapple track skidder and wheel skidder were pretty common for clear cuts as well as thinning, most common was the 527 cat track skidder.
Please update your profile.  ;) Where is "out here"?
Sorry about that I'm out in NW I thin for Weyerhauser so we see the clear cut crews a lot, then we do long log thins we have a high track skidder for the application.

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

Skeans1

Quote from: mike_belben on November 29, 2017, 04:06:39 AM
High track dozer?
No a dozer the sprocket isn't centered like the high track skidders are also they don't have the belly clearance. Here's a 527 swinger

Skeans1


barbender

I've watched a few videos of those 527's skidding, that looks like a real long day bouncing around in one of those.
Too many irons in the fire

Skeans1

Quote from: barbender on November 29, 2017, 07:57:56 AM
I've watched a few videos of those 527's skidding, that looks like a real long day bouncing around in one of those.
Honestly they aren't that bad in the seat it also depends on the operator as well as who's cutting ahead of the yarding just like CTL running a forwarder.

 
Typically how I would set up a long log thin with a forwarder for pulp.

mike_belben

Ive always been curious about those.  What are the tracked machines strengths over a wheeled one?  Are these logs getting dragged from the harvester bunching to the truck with it?  How long of a skid?
Praise The Lord

Skeans1

Quote from: mike_belben on November 29, 2017, 10:16:36 AM
Ive always been curious about those.  What are the tracked machines strengths over a wheeled one?  Are these logs getting dragged from the harvester bunching to the truck with it?  How long of a skid?
Typically ground pressure, you can side hill some, as well as run much steeper ground a few local guys are tethering with a tigercat bogie skidder then another is tethering with a 527. When we thin with ours some of the skids are 1/2 mile so 2500 ft or so that's where a wheel skidder would shine.

mike_belben

Is the swing dozer also tasked with building roads or is there other iron for that?
Praise The Lord

Chop Shop

Its refreshing to see some PNW action here!

A tracked grapple gets around good.

Taylorg

So I bought the machine, and the owner identified it as a C4 BG Treefarmer as you guys suspected. Also heavily modified with a reversed operator station. its got the ford industrial gas engine with 4speed trans going into the 2 speed transfer case with reverser (means 4 forward and 4 speeds reverse) also still has the pto output for the original winch thats not being used. Its got a 5 circuit valve bank for the hydraulics with 2 open circuits at the moment. Blade has been removed and Im unsure what the loader is from, possibly a full custom job but it works ok for now, might redo it in time. the grapple is too heavy for the machine so thats probably going to get sold. Everytime I run it I find something else that needs fixing but its a solid machine and at this point I don't feel bad about modifying it more. haha



 



 



 



 


Skeans1

Quote from: mike_belben on November 29, 2017, 12:38:59 PM
Is the swing dozer also tasked with building roads or is there other iron for that?
Depends on the operations setup, we do some light road building with ours but it's really not setup to do heavy road building an issue is the blade, then the sprocket placement isn't in the best location for pushing the weight is pushed in the center vs rearward. We have an older D7F that makes a much better pusher as well as a good machine for pulling large oversize.

Skeans1

Quote from: Taylorg on November 29, 2017, 03:08:18 PM
So I bought the machine, and the owner identified it as a C4 BG Treefarmer as you guys suspected. Also heavily modified with a reversed operator station. its got the ford industrial gas engine with 4speed trans going into the 2 speed transfer case with reverser (means 4 forward and 4 speeds reverse) also still has the pto output for the original winch thats not being used. Its got a 5 circuit valve bank for the hydraulics with 2 open circuits at the moment. Blade has been removed and Im unsure what the loader is from, possibly a full custom job but it works ok for now, might redo it in time. the grapple is too heavy for the machine so thats probably going to get sold. Everytime I run it I find something else that needs fixing but its a solid machine and at this point I don't feel bad about modifying it more. haha



 



 



 



 
I wonder if at one time it had a shearer head on the front with the extra circuits.

Hilltop366

Interesting machine, seems to go well with the stretch limo on a truck frame, looks like you will be riding in style on your way to the wood lot.

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

mike_belben

What makes you say the grapple is too big?  The lift rams look to be oriented very well for good breakout force but the curl cylinders are basically the opposite. 

Before you do any mods, toss a good pressure gauge into a tee on the main pump line and see what its relieved at.  Id be sure the pump is putting out what its rated for and if belt driven that its not slipping.  Then see if relief can be shimmed up to the hose rating. 


Id love to have that machine.  Woule have a 5ton military winch on the "back" powered by the vacant blade spools in the first week.  Skid and load with one tool... Beautiful. 
Praise The Lord

Taylorg

Thanks for the suggestions so far everyone. Its not so much that the grapple is improperly sized but the issue is with the more with the actual weight of the implement. Its built heavy and extra steel has been added to make a makeshift rock screener out of it. Combine that with the wonky mounts and bad geometry and those hyd cyls are working hard. Oh i thought it would be wise to put a gauge on it and I just might still to find out the max forces from the cyls when it comes time to redesign it. You can almost stall the poor little gas engine before it goes over relief so I think its good for now. So many possibilities with this machine... I love it! I'm pondering over winter what route to go with it to make a versatile machine. A homemade hyd quick attach for the loader with a blade, bucket, pallet forks and a winch on the "rear" are on the short-list.

Glad you like the 5-ton limo! I'm pretty proud of it although its not finished yet. Its another one of those "possibilities are endless" type projects but I think that will be more of a play machine than a work machine so practicality might go out the window. I'll put up some updates when I can if there is interest on here.

mike_belben

Practical?  Whats more practical than bringing your logging crew to and from the worksite/bar/parole officer in a 6x6 limo?  Cmon. 


Make sure to put a hydraulic thumb on the forks.
Praise The Lord

47sawdust

I thought that 5 ton limo would be the perfect wedding rig....wyffie thinks I'm a little touched in the head. :snowball: :snowball:
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

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