The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Buying a Log Truck  (Read 2572 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Corysansburn

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
Buying a Log Truck
« on: November 12, 2017, 10:08:40 pm »
I'm looking for some advice from experienced log truck drivers. I live just east of Woodland,Wa where logging and mills are big. I'm looking to buy a late 70s early 80s Pete or Kenworth no drop axle with long log 2 stage reach trailer. I know a lot of loggers in my area and they tell me there is no money in it. Is this true ? I believe there wrong if the buisness is ran right and your on good jobs with a good truck you'll make a good living not get rich or anything not looking for that. Also what the easiest way you guys line up work. How do you get on Weyerhaeuser jobs?

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 11:13:53 pm »
Welcome to the Forum Cory.  I'm from Canada so I won't be any help on establishing contacts but others'll be along for that. Are you thinking or running a 70's or 80's truck fulltime daily? I wouldn't be scared of that but make very sure the truck is serviceable. Too many times I've looked at older iron only to find a little rust or corrosion on the cab or the engines been worked on too many times to do another rebuild. For myself I'm happy with anything older than 2004. I hauled with pole trailer up in Grande Prairie, AB for a couple of winters and really enjoyed it but I'm back in Saskatchewan now and the boys are the ones playing with trucks. Good luck on your venture!
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline Corley5

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7570
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Wolverine, Michigan USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Wolverine, Michigan
    • Whittaker Farms
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 11:19:00 pm »
Better listen to this  ;) ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 01:29:15 am »
Boy he nailed that one. 

3406/13/hendrickson.  Power steering is a must.

Offline Firewoodjoe

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Northern lower michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 05:17:33 am »
I drive self loader but it's far differant then u western guys. Every one here tells me how there's no money in the wood business. But yet those guys are putting on more crews, buying new pickups, cars for there wife's,kids u name it. Then look at those log trucks! 11 axle loader truck is $300,000 and another $100,000 for the pup trailer. And they don't bat an eye at putting another 10-20-30 grand in custom paint and lights! I've always said there's money in everything just depends on how u go about it. As far as the truck. Age don't matter as long as it's all there and all in good shape. These trucks get new engines trans and rears 3-4 times before the truck is scraped out. Log trucks here take it hard. 3-600,000 on major components. Truck I'm driving has 800,000 and it's a 2004. I know of 11-12 or new getting engines at 200,000. It's all replaceable. Good luck.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 07:37:50 am »
It's all replaceable.

This/\

I see guys going broke for late model junk that isnt back 40 serviceable by old uncle joe mechanic all the time.  In all types of equipment, not just trucks.   The best truck is the one you can afford and get parts for that is spec'd right for the work.   The 90 year old multi millionaire that built my whole town it seems is still in business with late 70s and 80s mack triaxles, dozers, scrapers etc. His crew is in its 60s and theyre still working all of it, still doing diffs and clutches and kingpins while he sits next to the stove and points the cane.   Electronic equipment would be a disaster for these guys who are only test light proficient.

Offline Gearbox

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 996
  • Age: 72
  • Location: North MN
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 07:59:54 am »
If you buy a Cummins expect to do bearings . A Cat you will need to do front gear train . Detroit the injector harness . These will need to be done at 600 k +  . I know I will get flack but you can run them to a million but if you spin a bearing or wipe a gear train you buy a new block .  In frame overhaul cost 15000 and up . Most guys upgrade befor the BIG money is needed . When the truck breaks the money stops and the payments go on and the repair bills go up .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline sawguy21

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9176
  • Age: 68
  • Location: B.C. Canada
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 11:58:37 am »
Around here log trucks that old are in the back 40 stripped for parts. It's a fine line. You either finance a new or newer truck and work your tail off to pay for it or buy older then spend otherwise productive time in the shop or under it on the road. I used to manage a fleet of light and medium duty trucks for a helicopter company, the old company owned trucks cost a lot of time and money.
You also will be subject to regular inspections plus random stops, everything had better be in order. If the inspector is in an ornery mood he will find something wrong if he wants to.  ::) Older equipment is getting tougher to run due to emission standards, in Vancouver, ALL diesels are subject to testing. There is no easy answer.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Corysansburn

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 01:11:40 pm »
I understand if I buy a old I will working on it quite often.
I plan on buying a early 80s Pete with the 3406 Cat.
I have service truck set up currently for OTR repairs. I live 15 miles out of town so emissions aren't needed here I plan on spending around 15k on a full setup plus 15k on repairs within the first couple months even if it's preventive maintenance. It's sounds like if I set my mind to it, work long 12 hour days on good jobs. I should be able to make it somewhat successfull. I've never drove log truck but drove other trucks off road so I think I'll wait till late spring to start hauling. Is the 3406 Model A a good motor?

Offline Autocar

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2692
  • Location: Twenty five miles southwest of Lima Ohio
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 02:55:12 pm »
My opinion on a 3406 Cat stay away from it. Very exspenive motor to have any work done on it.
Bill

Offline snowstorm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3468
  • Location: maine
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 05:38:03 pm »
i would not limit my search to just a Pete or kw what makes them any better than anything else? in this part of the country 75% of the log trucks are westernstar and i do own 1 along with a lt9000 ih s2500 and a volvo. i really like the volvo. i have never owned a yellow truck motor cat excavator and loader yes. one of the must haves is a jake that works really well. dose it with a cat? i am not a fan of air ride. its great on the interstate. i have some with hendrickson spring there are ok. one broke the end cap 3 times. the newer style was trouble free. also know of a 5 yr old ws that broke a walking beam. that gets exciting. i would look for a volvo on charmers 18 sp the d12 motor is tuff with a good engine brake 

Offline Gearbox

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 996
  • Age: 72
  • Location: North MN
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 07:39:17 pm »
The older Cats had nothing for torque under 1500 . Right where you need a big torque rise . Your in 3 rd gear and start to run out of power you can't down shift in soft ground with out risking the drive train . That is where big power and torque is needed . Your not going to get it with a 425 cat . late 90s to 2004 those will pull . Watch what you  get for gears 3.91 - 4.10 with 24.5 rubber .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline Maine logger88

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1507
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Morrill ME
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't force it get a bigger hammer
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 07:49:59 pm »
None of the mechicle engines had big torque like the electronic engines do.
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Offline Corysansburn

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 08:28:02 pm »
90% of the trucks in my area are 2000 and older with 400 big cams or 3406 Cat. They are also Pete, Kenworth or international a Volvo freightliner or one of them highway trucks would never last on Northwest roads. Torque is not a worry around these parts when your stuck in the mud or on a strap gravel hill the goal is to keep the rpms low and bog it out high rpms will only barry you more.

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 08:35:36 pm »
Around 88 when cat brought out the "b" block which was rated at 425hp it had much better torque than the "a" block. But it still didn't have any engine braking worth talking about. The driveline retarder was ok but not great. But they could pull. I especially liked it when I'd hit some soft ground or a slope would pitch me a steep spot I wasn't thinking about and she'd still growl me out of it.

Series 60 Detroit was good after about 95 or so. Before that they had a safety that wouldn't allow them to lug. I've had them cut out on me at 1300rpm and leave me scrambling for a gear when I only needed another hundred feet to top the grade. Engine braking improved on them around that time too.

Prior to the early 90's the only engine that had an engine brake to think about was cummins (known to me as a comeapart). Not a great engine in my opinion but there was a reason why they commanded the market back then.

I'm fully prejudiced against peterbilt! This is not a rational one. I simply refuse to be lumped together with those snakeskin boots, Stetson hats, and lowrider seats. If you're too embarrassed to be seen in your truck go buy a real one!!   ;D

Of the older trucks I've run I'd be partial to KW or Western Star. Hey, we're all allowed opinions. Right?

the goal is to keep the rpms low and bog it out high rpms will only barry you more.

That's right where torque is found.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline Firewoodjoe

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Northern lower michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 08:35:43 pm »
I'd rather have a new truck. I'd rather repair a old truck. I'd rather pull with a cat I'd rather pay for a rebuild Detroit. There all the same. Cats cost more. But it's all in the driver. If u don't mind keeping "yourself" in low gear and keep your eyes sharp when walking around getting fuel, loaded, unloaded, and ALL the time! And listen. You will save yourself a lot of money. If u go balls to the walls make money in less hours and keep the radio up to your favorite song and talk to everyone when u get out then u will miss a lot and cost yourself a lot.

Offline Gearbox

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 996
  • Age: 72
  • Location: North MN
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 09:21:11 pm »
Your from the Northwest and you are old enough to know about the Spotted Owl then you know that the log market can go south with another owl whim . There were trucks sitting all over and the banks didn't even go after them . Whats next .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline snowstorm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3468
  • Location: maine
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 09:27:15 pm »
if you want low rpm grunt volvo or mack. they are the same thing. the sticker on mine says lug it to 1100rpm the new ones are 975

Offline BargeMonkey

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Age: 33
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 10:05:06 pm »
 Your truck market out there is diff than out east here, my ex relief off the boat lives out by Marysville WA and he was finding nicer older stuff still in decent shape, most stuff pre-90 is rotted out around here, even the early 2000 stuff is getting that way. I've got 5 cats, 2 macks and 1 MBE trucks, they all suck. I would hunt out something thats been taken care of, the extra you spend upfront pays off. Dayton and budd wheels are going the way of the dinosaur, they are slowly phasing out alot of 22.5 stuff, all something to think about. One of the best trucks we ever owned was an LTL w/3406B, liked to eat lifters ever once in a while. Can't go wrong with a mechanical Mack, R-models are getting rare here but they where a rugged truck. My 460 Mack does not like to lug, gobs of power on the high side. Honestly the only one I would say to stay away from is an MBE, more money than a cat to fix and 3/4 of the power for an engine rated for more. I know where a 99 heavy spec KW and 3 triaxle Mack superliners sit in NJ parked out back, been haggling for almost 2yrs. 😂

Offline Firewoodjoe

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Northern lower michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 05:36:39 am »
Bargemonkey. Phasing out 22.5? 99% of tires sold and on the rd are 22.5. Including recaps. 24.5s are a over the rd truck around here. I don't even think you can buy a supper single steer in 24.5.

Offline snowstorm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3468
  • Location: maine
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 05:55:24 am »
a dayton wheel uses a spoke hub and they are stronger than a bud wheel. 22.5 is not going away. the over the road trucks do use a lot of low profile 22.5. i run 12-22.5 they are about the same height as a 11-24.5

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2017, 10:15:09 am »
Here in Western Canada all heavy haul trucks used to have daytons because the old budd wheel would not hold up. Very soon after the new budd wheel showed up we tried them on offroad log haul and had very good success with them. All new trucks were ordered with the new budd wheel. Now it is rare to see a heavy haul with daytons due to the success of the new one nut mount budd. We used to see all manner of cracking and breaking with that old budd but not so with the newer one. And that was on a unit that loaded to 200,000lbs on 5 axles. I don't like daytons unless you have a good tire man to mount them correctly and I am in favour of the new buds. What year did they come out? I know our early 90's had them but my '88 still had the old buds. Our loggers here would prefer the 24.5 profile tire but say they have much better selection of tire in 22.5. I'm only now getting back into ownership of trucks with the boys so i'll need to get educated again.

I forgot about Macks. You'd be hard pressed to destroy an old R model.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline Autocar

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2692
  • Location: Twenty five miles southwest of Lima Ohio
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2017, 10:35:49 am »
It seems to me the R model Macks disappeared over night around here, they were everywhere a number of years ago. I can't remember the last time I even saw one on the road. My second truck was a R model a 1967 was a good truck.
Bill

Offline quilbilly

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Location: washington state
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2017, 10:42:10 am »
You can make it, I'm not far from you. I haven't heard of anyone going under recently and know of two independent truckers who just bought new trucks and another who bought a nice used one. If you're willing to put in the hours there is money to be made right now. Market supposedly should be steady for the next 6-8 months
a man is strongest on his knees

Offline BargeMonkey

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Age: 33
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 06:50:11 pm »
Bargemonkey. Phasing out 22.5? 99% of tires sold and on the rd are 22.5. Including recaps. 24.5s are a over the rd truck around here. I don't even think you can buy a supper single steer in 24.5.
2x recently on both rims and tires if I wanted it in 24.5 I could have it right then, 22.5 was 1-2days, dealer said they just don't keep as many on hand. On a decent week we probably have 150-200 diff trucks thru our quarry, almost all the newer stuff is 24.5 and hub pilot. Rarely see a super single out here other than on the thruway.

Offline Firewoodjoe

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Northern lower michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2017, 08:34:28 pm »
That's crazy. But yes we run a lot of supper singles. But we are a axle state and need 700 pounds per in of tire. Truck I drive has 445/22.5 steers.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2017, 09:58:52 pm »
In frame overhaul cost 15000 and up .

Inframe kits are under $2k for most mechanical engines.  Thats a lot of labor.   You can buy a reman 3406 complete for 10. 


The R model macks all went to guatemala. Same as the dt466.  I cut many.

Offline Maine logger88

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1507
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Morrill ME
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't force it get a bigger hammer
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2017, 10:32:18 pm »
A oem rebuild kit and labor will cost 12 to 15k if you need to cut the counterbores then a bit more and that goes for all brands. Aftermarket kits are definitely less interstate mcbee makes a really nice kit for a aftermarket. Detroit cummins and cat are all pretty close price wise now a days there used to be a time when cat was more tho. Snowstorm is right on the a and b cats not having as good of Jake's as newer engines but they do help some.  The big cam cummins is the only mechaicle engine I've been around with a strong jake but they have there down falls as well. R model macks are a tough truck but it's getting harder to find with cabs that aren't rusted out and there's no leg room.
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Offline BargeMonkey

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Age: 33
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2017, 10:48:47 pm »
 Whip out the credit card because it gets expensive fast 😂, I want to say I went with the gold kit ? And a new head in march, couple sensors, gaskets, all said and done with labor was 15k on a C-12 doing it in house. That MBE had a small coolant drip, sent it to Detroit Allison, it had life left but not enough once you where that far into it, that wasn't cheap, kind of a weird looking engine. On an older mechanical engine if it's anything real serious we would buy a low mileage pulled one and keep the other for a donor, had a few 237-300, 3406B, 671-8v92s out back for yrs for parts.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2017, 11:03:07 pm »
I ran a rottler F80 at a diesel shop for a while

I suppose you can spend $15k on an overhaul if you want.  Telling people thats what they start at is kinda misleading.   It costs me about the same to do a full engine overhaul as it does to put new rubber on a tandem truck.  I did an out of frame dt466 with block machining, and flywheel, clutch, sliding clutches, bearings, seals and low auxialliary gear in my 13spd for $8k.  An inframe woulda run me $1300 or so. 

Making a living isnt sposta be easy, gotta work on something.  May as well be an old truck. 

Online barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5093
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2017, 12:44:03 am »
There's a lot of price difference between a DT466 and big block diesels like a 3406. To the OP, from my experience, you can make it- maybe. You better love trucking,  because IF you are going to have a chance at making it, you are going to live in that seat. I've seen a lot of gugs buy a truck because they're sick of taking orders from someone- they want to work for themselves. Exactly the wrong attitude to have, because you'll still be taking orders from someone, and now you'll have a large investment hanging over your head. I'm not trying to discourage you, I'd just say go into it with your eyes wide open👍
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Riwaka

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2017, 04:37:00 am »
In this study 2008, the average age of a Washington State log truck driver was 55 years old with 27 years of driving experience.

https://www.ruraltech.org/pubs/reports/2008/log_trucks/log_truck_report.pdf

I see this webpage mentions mentorship in company truck driving.

http://www.keeptruckingsafe.org/

What percent of log truck drivers start as owner drivers compared with starting as company log truck drivers?  Does mentorship exist in log truck driving or only in the form of the boss chewing the young log truck out when something goes wrong?

Offline sawguy21

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9176
  • Age: 68
  • Location: B.C. Canada
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2017, 05:31:49 am »
I would suggest finding somebody that is willing to mentor on his truck before jumping into your own rig (if his insurer will allow it). Off highway hauling  is not easy, there is a lot to learn. Being pushed down a steep muddy road by 80,000 lb really awakens the senses. Smooth and steady are the operative words here, a mistake can really hurt the wallet not to mention the driver.
Years ago during a period of unemployment and youthful exuberance I got a learners license, took the air brake course and started driving. It is hard work and long hours, throwing wrappers and chaining up two or three times a day gets old in a hurry. When we got home there was maintenance, Saturdays were spent at the truck or tire shop. It was good money for the driver, I wasn't getting paid, but figured out on an hourly basis it sucked. I decided this was not for me but he couldn't imagine doing anything else. He is now 68, been driving for 50 years and completely worn out, he still loves what he is doing but has to hang up the keys.
I don't know how it is in your area but here the mills don't hire the trucks, the logging contractor usually subs the hauling to a trucking company who may hire owner operators.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Firewoodjoe

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Northern lower michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2017, 07:57:32 am »
Detroit 14L was $20,000 and the cat single turbo and twin has been 20-40,000. Yes one rebuild was $40,000 done by cat. These are large engines. Not c12 or dt466. Anything less than 1850 torque has no business pulling 164,000.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2017, 09:57:34 am »
Im saying i worked at an independant diesel shop and have a real good idea on their cost for any of the big truck motors. 

The labor hours on a dt466 vs dd60 vs 3406 etc isnt much difference.  The aftermarket kit prices arent much different. 

Taking out your engine and bringing it to an independant rebuilder.. Vs getting towed into cat and  buying "the gold kit" .. Yeah thats a lot different.   The swipe and wait for a call that its done lifestyle has much higher rates than the climb under and roll in your own bearing lifestyle. Im living the cheap one and im quoting you my costs.  Ill furnish receipts if you insist.

Take heart new guys on a budget.  It can be done with an abundance of hard labor.  You better love work above all else.

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2017, 10:23:40 am »
When I started out with my 1st truck back in 1986 I knew very little. I went to work and earned revenue and spent too much on fuel and mechanics. I kept my ears open and learned from many, many mentors who each taught me something. As the years went by I learned more about lowering costs and earning better revenues. As time went by success became easier. We've had one post from a gentleman in WA who says the market will be steady for a few months at least and it sounds like he should know. The OP can definitely make this a go. The only question is whether he will enjoy the owner/operator lifestyle or whether he will find he doesn't. Just learn to love your wrenches and to love the truck. Just don't get lost and make the truck your mistress. Then you lose family, friends, and just about any social life you'd expect to have. I've seen way too many lose out on a good wife and family cause they gave the truck priority.

Just remember to give the truck that last little wipe with the rag as you head back to the house to be with family or friends. She's done the job and you've taken care of her and now it's time for life.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2017, 10:32:55 am »
Amen.  Ive nearly lost mine a few times over iron making us all suffer.  The wives have to understand that youre all enduring less joy now so that you can pass down equipment, skills, work ethic and a reputation in order to make the kids lives better and thus that its a win in the long run lifestyle.  Working together keeps a family close.  My 4 year old wakes up at 6am and puts his work boots on.  The wife couldnt see the purpose before he was born.  Thats our job. 

Offline Maine logger88

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1507
  • Age: 29
  • Location: Morrill ME
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't force it get a bigger hammer
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2017, 04:00:31 pm »
Well said Grizzly!
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Offline Corysansburn

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2017, 04:02:16 pm »
Thank you all for the good advice.
I'm not doing it for the money or for the lifestyle of being my own boss. I going to do it because I have a strong interest within it and I'm not scared of long hours or hard work. It had always been a dream of mine and now it's time for it to come true.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2017, 09:30:04 pm »
Atta boy

Online barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5093
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 10:30:25 pm »
Corysansburn, you can do it if you put your mind to it. Again, I just say have your eyes wide open. Consider hiring on for someone and driving their truck for a year or two. You'll learn a ton, and be better prepared to deal with your own truck if you choose to continue that direction.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2017, 10:30:59 pm »
 

 

Is this the style of rig your thinking of Cory? 5 axle truck and pole? Or what setup are you planning for?
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2017, 08:03:23 am »
Nice to see an A model making a living, flippin the bird at ELD and DEF. 

I saw a west coast log truck dash vid the other day coming off a cliffside.  NO WAY id have the nerve.  Id be white knuckled in a pickup down this thing. God bless those fellas doin that job.

Offline Corysansburn

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2017, 10:50:37 am »
Grizzly, That truck setup is exactly what I am looking for. It is the most common setup around the northwest besides Mule bunks.
Mike_belben
The cliff and logging roads around these parts get pretty steep. You get used to driving on these roads though sometimes you'll be just out hunting in your pickup driving next to a 200ft cliff with your tire a ft away from the edge. I've been told by some log truck drivers it's the best experience ever and that adrenaline rush keeps them going.

Offline GRANITEstateMP

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Location: NOTTINGHAM, NH
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2017, 10:57:17 am »
Grizzly,

Nice looking KW!
LIVE FREE OR DIE
Hakki Pilke 1x37
Kubota M6040
Load Trail 12ft Dump Trailer

Offline sawguy21

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9176
  • Age: 68
  • Location: B.C. Canada
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2017, 11:48:07 am »
That is a nice looking setup.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2017, 12:10:36 pm »
Cory, then I strongly recommend against air ride. Back then none of them could handle any amount of uneven weight distribution side to side. One fellow tried it up here and his first load was a disaster. He switched to what we call hayracks and hauled short wood. I've run lots of rubber block on log trucks and found them to be most stable and because you haul the trailer back to the bush you don't have that nasty chatter from an empty truck. Lots of nasty things get said about rubber block but it fills a job description well. If the cab doesn't have air ride you can buy kits or you can buy parts and do it yourself. That is a good mod to do.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5468
  • Age: 46
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2017, 01:13:42 pm »
that's funny how in different parts of the world how things work around here  a lot of guys are going to air ride in log trucks straight jobs and truck an trailer

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 02:26:31 pm »
In truck & pole configuration too coxy? That's the only configuration where I've experienced that air ride didn't work. I hauled with jeep & pole with all 3 units on air ride and that worked. All of the hayracks I've pulled worked fine with air ride. Just truck & pole didn't. Must be a physics issue?

But your correct in that region by region thinking differs.

As I'm posting this I'm remembering that all my truck & pole work was off-highway and 12-14ft wide log bunks. Maybe that's the difference.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5468
  • Age: 46
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2017, 02:30:55 pm »
that could be  but from what I'm told by the old truckers that when air ride first came out the where horrible some worked some didn't  I think its like anything else they do get better every year or so  ;D

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2017, 02:36:36 pm »
I think its like anything else they do get better every year or so  ;D

hasn't worked out so well for me!!   >:(    ;D  Or do I gotta wait more years yet?
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Offline Corysansburn

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2017, 03:13:48 pm »
No air ride for me.. There not only unstable as soon as you hit some mud they tend to sink. I almost bought the same kenworth as pictured Grizzly even the Same color it was a 77 but he wanted too much $$.

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5468
  • Age: 46
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2017, 03:29:40 pm »
I think its like anything else they do get better every year or so  ;D

hasn't worked out so well for me!!   >:(    ;D  Or do I gotta wait more years yet?
you got a couple more years  :D :D

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2017, 04:48:47 pm »
Got my '74 for $1500. Sat for years, i did nothing but pay for it.  Fastest starting engine i own.  When i get it down here and titled ill probably find a walking beam cutoff and build bunks.   855/15spd.  19 feet of frame.




Ive never seen a pole trailer in person, lived all over east coast.  Maybe in maine?

Online barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5093
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2017, 05:11:08 pm »
Everyone's on air around here, including pole trailers.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline killamplanes

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Carlinville Il
  • Gender: Male
  • one man band
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2017, 07:01:15 pm »

    Who said air ride, it's air-ride but still a teeth chipper. I have a log trailer for it. Run 2500 miles a month year around cummins 400hp, 9sp, a/c etc. These older truck can still be found but getting harder by the day.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Offline BargeMonkey

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2238
  • Age: 33
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2017, 09:20:41 pm »
 

 
😂👍

Offline sawguy21

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9176
  • Age: 68
  • Location: B.C. Canada
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2017, 10:03:24 pm »
 :D :D :D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5468
  • Age: 46
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2017, 10:52:58 pm »
how many log trucks you own barge  ;) :D 8)  but how true that is

Offline sandhills

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4914
  • Age: 44
  • Location: east egde of the hills, Nebraska
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 12:36:00 am »
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
   (Image hidden from quote, click to view.) Who said air ride, it's air-ride but still a teeth chipper. I have a log trailer for it. Run 2500 miles a month year around cummins 400hp, 9sp, a/c etc. These older truck can still be found but getting harder by the day.
Add one more axle, a few years, and paint that baby blue and you'd have my "gallopin goose"  :) (just wish it had your engine instead of my 318 Detroit)  :D

Offline sawguy21

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9176
  • Age: 68
  • Location: B.C. Canada
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #60 on: Yesterday at 01:27:02 am »
We see a lot of 8 axle configurations, a tri drive with tri axle trailer and a jeep hauling tree length. These guys are running serious power. Some mills will only take ctl to minimize waste so hay racks are used, the logging contractors hate that as it is extra work and clean up in the bush.
sandhills, can you still hear anything?  :D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Logger RK

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
  • Age: 57
  • Location: North west wis
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #61 on: Yesterday at 07:16:56 am »
I kind of like my 79 Black Mack. But it could use more power & gears. But it's just a Eq mover & chip Van spotter.

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5468
  • Age: 46
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #62 on: Yesterday at 07:46:56 am »
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
   (Image hidden from quote, click to view.) Who said air ride, it's air-ride but still a teeth chipper. I have a log trailer for it. Run 2500 miles a month year around cummins 400hp, 9sp, a/c etc. These older truck can still be found but getting harder by the day.
Add one more axle, a few years, and paint that baby blue and you'd have my "gallopin goose"  :) (just wish it had your engine instead of my 318 Detroit)  :D
ill trade you  a 671  ;D

Offline killamplanes

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Carlinville Il
  • Gender: Male
  • one man band
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #63 on: Yesterday at 09:31:30 am »
I would hate to run a 67 2500 miles a month :o
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #64 on: Yesterday at 12:57:31 pm »
Nice FL killamplanes.  Ive always wondered on single screw trucks.. Typically how much payload capacity on the trailer before you max out your legal weight on the drive? 

Im guessing with a wheelbase that short you can get a lot of it on the steer.. And the spread gives you 20k per trailer axle. Can you get 48k on the deck legally? Looks like it might.   Truck cant weigh much over 12k itself right?

Offline chevytaHOE5674

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 2789
  • Location: Ontonagon Mi
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 02:22:16 pm »
Just about all of the guys I know around here with newer trucks are all air ride and Ive never heard of anybody wanting to go back to springs.

Offline sandhills

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4914
  • Age: 44
  • Location: east egde of the hills, Nebraska
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 04:41:55 pm »
What was that sawguy?  :D
We had a 671 for a power unit on a well for years, not a lot of difference noise wise  :-\.

Offline coxy

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5468
  • Age: 46
  • Location: eastern n.y
  • Gender: Male
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 05:24:49 pm »
What was that sawguy?  :D
We had a 671 for a power unit on a well for years, not a lot of difference noise wise  :-\.
maybe not noise but power wise there is a big difference

Online starmac

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 08:31:46 pm »
Grizzly I run air ride on my log truck, so does most of the other long log trucks around here. Two of them bought trucks out of Oregon and Washington last year, both of those were air ride too.

I run pete air trac, which has worked well, my haul road truck has neway, which is way better as far as I am concerned. I also run a b model cat with a 15 over. 529 ss's I wish it was a little faster on the long hauls, but on the short ones it works as well as any new trucks.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 09:36:44 pm »
Do you know which model neway youre running?  Any complaints with it? 

Im trying to buy an '89 LTL9000 with a 34k neway ARD234-6 suspension.  Hoping its good on and off road.

Offline killamplanes

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Carlinville Il
  • Gender: Male
  • one man band
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 10:24:18 pm »
Nice FL killamplanes.  Ive always wondered on single screw trucks.. Typically how much payload capacity on the trailer before you max out your legal weight on the drive? 

Im guessing with a wheelbase that short you can get a lot of it on the steer.. And the spread gives you 20k per trailer axle. Can you get 48k on the deck legally? Looks like it might.   Truck cant weigh much over 12k itself right?
Truck empty 13k, (not light) so with that drop van (air-ride) I weigh in at 30k (again not light) trailer has air over hydraulic deck leveler. IE raises rear of trailer to dock height. 20kx3 axles +12k steer 72k gross. 42k usefull. A mute subject because I haul pallets with that trailer and 2 other regular 53ft vans. 660 40x40 pallets hardwood weight about 25k. Actually rides like my other daycab as long as not bobtailing. Put 250 miles on today ;D
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #71 on: Yesterday at 11:23:49 pm »
Good to know starmac. Makes for more options. My last logging days were in 97 and things have changed a bunch. I hauled here in SK but its quite a different thing.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Online starmac

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #72 on: Yesterday at 11:41:10 pm »
Mike I can't tell you exactly what model number it is, but it is 46,000 suspension and a 96 model truck. It is the same as the heavy western stars of that vintage. I have an A model that I have a set of 46 out of a 99 international on air I hope to get under it this winter.

Make sure the bushings are good in that 89 ford, as it would likely cost more to have them replaced than the truck will cost you.

Grizzly. My truck is on air, the trailer is on beams, I have been told that you don't even want spring on the trailer with air, but know one guy that has air and spring.
I was told by several old log truck drivers that air was no good, but at they were all eating crow when I had to chain way less than any of their walking beam trucks. lol
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Online starmac

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 11:46:34 pm »
Grizzly, the only part of Sk I have been through, you would have to raid quite a few city parks and peoples yards to get a load of logs, you must live farther north than I have been over there.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #74 on: Yesterday at 11:49:03 pm »
Chained up less??!! That defies everything I've learned down at the truckstops all these years!  :D :D

To what do you credit that? Less wheel hop? Or more even load distribution? I always liked my walking beams but now your gonna make me reconsider??

Yep. Starmacs. I live within an hour or so of 3 sawmills and 1 pulp mill. We're up north in the good part of SK. You can't watch your dog run away for days at a time. He'd be lost in the bush too soon.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Online starmac

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #75 on: Today at 12:11:21 am »
Grizzly, all I can tell you is that apparently the wheels stay on the ground better than the walking beams. The first year I hauled logs, there was only one other truck on the sale I worked on most of the time. I do have a locker in the rear axle where he didn't, but he had to chain all 4 even when I didn't chain at all, and I never chained anything but the front drive. After a month or so, he went and put a locker in his rear drive, and promptly slid back down a hill with one set on that I bare footed right ahead of him. He nicknamed my truck the mountain goat. lol

For some reason the crew decked some logs right at the top of a STEEP hill, I knew one of the sawmills trucks had loaded out of it the day before, so I ask the boss if he backed up there without chaining, he said he didn't even make it with chains. They pulled him with the skidder. He also said he thought I might be able to, so I said I am sure going to try. I made it fine, but as soon as the shovel picked up my trailer and took the weight off the drives, we skied back down faster than we came up. lol
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Grizzly

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Spiritwood, SK
  • Gender: Male
  • I wanna go camping!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #76 on: Today at 12:17:29 am »
I miss logging. Chasing moose at 2am while listening to the chatter on road channel. Just being one of the crew way out in the sticks. Those were good days. (and I was younger). I spent 2 winters around Grande Prairie, AB and then the next 2 winters hauling private wood from AB to BC. Chetwynd and Fort St John. Good memories.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

Online starmac

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
Re: Buying a Log Truck
« Reply #77 on: Today at 12:34:27 am »
Ah, now I have been to Grand Prairie, chetwynd and Ft St John many times.

I love running the log truck, but don't know how many more years I will be able to. I take a swamper with me now to hook upthe trailer, tie down, chain up, etc.

We have been cutting 33 miles back in on the logging trail, it is sure nice to be way back in the woods and top a hill when the sun just starts peeking up. The moose, wolves, linx, grouse and rabbits, just makes one appreciate life, even though it is probably the lowest paying thing I have ever done with a truck.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.