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Small scale sawmill business

Started by dirthawger, November 12, 2017, 04:43:43 PM

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dirthawger

So Ive been trying to decide where i wanted to focus my attention.  Firewood or sawmill business.  I do enjoy cutting my own firewood but im not passionate enough to make it a business.  So im going for a small scale sawmill business. I do mean sawmill as my financial goal is just to make the payment which for the LT15 is around $140. I know the lt15 isn't a commercial unit but itd give me a way to ease into and see if i could actually bring in business.  So what's yalls opinios?

Percy

Not sure which power plant you have on your LT15 but the ones with a 15 hp electric or the 28 FI Kohlers have feed rates same as an equivelent LT40. Just more physical. Making a 140.00 a month with that mill is an easy thing to do IMO.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

ladylake


Should be able to clear $140 a day easy.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

irvi00

Quote from: ladylake on November 12, 2017, 05:10:45 PM

Should be able to clear $140 a day easy.  Steve

Agreed. Once you get your name out there and people know about you, you'll be swamped with work. It aint easy but its a good way to spend your time.

Peter Drouin

Are you going to sell lumber, or just custom sawing??
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

thecfarm

A all manual mill is a hard way to make money. But it can be done. I would not want to be sawing steady 5 days a week,even weekends would get to me. I have a manual sawmill,I cut down the trees,mill them,and than build. Breaks up the work part. Well meaning doing the same thing all day.  :)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WV Sawmiller

DH,

   Way short on details for advice on my part. What is your experience and what kind of support equipment do you have to work with? Where are your logs coming from? Are you sawing lumber for others or selling it? If selling, where will you sell it? Are you transporting  lumber for others and if so back to the support equipment. Where are you sawing? On your site or customers? If your site how well is your site laid out for access, storage, etc? If at home what are you doing with the by-products like sawdust and slabwood?

   I don't want to be negative and will be glad to comment on specific questions and details. Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

dirthawger

I figured i would do both if that's an option,  didn't know if maybe i need to decide on one or the other.  And i don't plan on doing it 5 days a week, id love to be swamped with work but right now my goal is just pay the monthly and supplemental income for my fulltime job and stump grinding business.  I guess it's just going to come down to just suck it up and buy it. Just a little concerned about finding customers but that's with everything you do i suppose. So do y'all recommend not getting an LT15?

One other question is I've talked to a guy before that cautioned me against woodmizer mills cause he said they're designed to make you a slave to woodmizer. He recommends lucas. Did this guy just have a bad experience?

firefighter ontheside

I recently acquired an LT15 from my buddy, a former member here(gfadvm).  He has been sick and couldn't use it anymore.  He sawed mostly by himself and only with free logs that he got here and there.  He would cut, air dry and sell anything he could get.  While still working as a fulltime horse veterinarian he made over 30,000 in about 2 years.  He was very meticulous in his cutting and stacking.  He cut everything live edge and stacked in perfect stacks keeping mirrored edges together.  I believe he appealed to people who wanted live edge and who wanted book matched slabs.  He priced his wood by the slab and not the board foot.  That may be a good model for a small business.  Myself, I will mostly be cutting for myself and friends and will also make it known that I will cut for a fee.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: dirthawger on November 12, 2017, 07:45:45 PM
One other question is I've talked to a guy before that cautioned me against woodmizer mills cause he said they're designed to make you a slave to woodmizer. He recommends lucas. Did this guy just have a bad experience?

    Did he ever actually own and operate a WM mill? I have just under 500 operating hours on my mill and a little over 72K bf plus other specialty cuts and my experience with WM has been totally positive. IMHO the WM prices are competitive when compared to the same or similar items in the local market or on line purchases, their on-line advice and troubleshooting, when needed,has been spot-on and their responsiveness with advice and sending critical spares has been above reproach.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

4x4American


I had a friend message me a picture today of a pine log (more like firewood block) that he cut in half and then squared the top up and got paid $150 to do that...if you could find markets like that you would have the best of both worlds, firewood and sawmill lol

If all else fails you could make $140/month collecting cans lol


No but seriously that lt15 will make those payments easily, you could probably make double payments on it each month and pay for it in half the time.
Boy, back in my day..

Tom the Sawyer

 dirthawger,

As mentioned before, a bit more information would get you more pertinent answers.  Please add your location to your profile.  If you are considering firewood vs. milling, I would assume that you have a source for logs.  Are they 'firewood' or saw logs.  Your location, market, and competition will have a lot to do with your potential success.  If your concern is making enough to cover the payment then I would assume that you have a full-time job.  That may make it easier to get started, sometimes it can be slow until you get your name out there, and a good reputation.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

dgdrls

Quote from: dirthawger on November 12, 2017, 07:45:45 PM
I figured i would do both if that's an option,  didn't know if maybe i need to decide on one or the other.  And i don't plan on doing it 5 days a week, id love to be swamped with work but right now my goal is just pay the monthly and supplemental income for my fulltime job and stump grinding business.  I guess it's just going to come down to just suck it up and buy it. Just a little concerned about finding customers but that's with everything you do i suppose. So do y'all recommend not getting an LT15?

One other question is I've talked to a guy before that cautioned me against woodmizer mills cause he said they're designed to make you a slave to woodmizer. He recommends lucas. Did this guy just have a bad experience?

Lucas and LT-15 are worlds apart.  Either manufacturer builds a dandy mill.  IMHO unless you're really sold on a circle style mill or plan on big logs go with the band. (I prefer the circle blade and no one around me has a Lucas so bigger logs are easy for me)
With that said if you go with a Woodmizer get one with the Monorail, at least an LT 28, that's what sets a WM apart from the others.
In a smaller mill I would test drive some of the others manufacturers first, used is also a great route,

You will have to build the service up as others have indicated,
I believe with a bit of effort you should clear the mill easily in a 2-3 years (or sooner) with regular part time milling

D

dirthawger

No i don't have a source of logs which is an issue. As far as competition goes there is one other guy that does custom sawing, builds furniture and flooring with the lt35.  And sorry about my profile i thought i added it but I'm in shreveport, la

Magicman

I am finishing 15 years of sawing with my Wood-Mizer and I have never felt like a "slave".  Their technical support is at your finger tip and the technicians will spend whatever time is necessary to keep you sawing.  Actually it could be that they are our slaves.  :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

dirthawger

Quote from: Magicman on November 12, 2017, 09:41:07 PM
I am finishing 15 years of sawing with my Wood-Mizer and I have never felt like a "slave".  Their technical support is at your finger tip and the technicians will spend whatever time is necessary to keep you sawing.  Actually it could be that they are our slaves.  :D

I can't remember exactly what he said but something about they design the blades so they wear out quick and are very expensive. From what I'm reading sounds like he just had a bad experience or just a big fan of lucas.

Magicman

I would put him on my list of guys to "not listen to".   :P

There is no blade or sawmill manufacturer that would intentionally sabotage any part of the sawing operation.  It would also be a very rare occasion if you could find one that would discredit another manufacturer.  Let each stand on their own merits and the sawyers/users will make their own decisions and make their own choice.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

dirthawger

Quote from: dgdrls on November 12, 2017, 08:55:03 PM
Quote from: dirthawger on November 12, 2017, 07:45:45 PM
I figured i would do both if that's an option,  didn't know if maybe i need to decide on one or the other.  And i don't plan on doing it 5 days a week, id love to be swamped with work but right now my goal is just pay the monthly and supplemental income for my fulltime job and stump grinding business.  I guess it's just going to come down to just suck it up and buy it. Just a little concerned about finding customers but that's with everything you do i suppose. So do y'all recommend not getting an LT15?

One other question is I've talked to a guy before that cautioned me against woodmizer mills cause he said they're designed to make you a slave to woodmizer. He recommends lucas. Did this guy just have a bad experience?

Lucas and LT-15 are worlds apart.  Either manufacturer builds a dandy mill.  IMHO unless you're really sold on a circle style mill or plan on big logs go with the band. (I prefer the circle blade and no one around me has a Lucas so bigger logs are easy for me)
With that said if you go with a Woodmizer get one with the Monorail, at least an LT 28, that's what sets a WM apart from the others.
In a smaller mill I would test drive some of the others manufacturers first, used is also a great route,

You will have to build the service up as others have indicated,
I believe with a bit of effort you should clear the mill easily in a 2-3 years (or sooner) with regular part time milling

D
Yea Im leaning towards the lt28 as the minimum i would need to be somewhat profitable. The lt15 would be a pain to have to load it each time i need to move. I could get the next model lt15 but for a little bit more id get a better machine

Ianab

QuoteOne other question is I've talked to a guy before that cautioned me against woodmizer mills cause he said they're designed to make you a slave to woodmizer. He recommends lucas. Did this guy just have a bad experience?

I suspect he's just had a bad experience, or someone else has told him some horror story. Woodmizer technical backup and parts seems to be one of the better in the industry, although because some of their parts are specific to their machines (not generic engineering supply store parts) it does mean you may need to get some parts via them. You don't HAVE to use their blades, but they are competitive with those.

Blades on a bandmill (in general) DO wear out faster than a swingblade, so there is some truth in that. But they are a "consumable" and you just have to factor the sharpening and replacement into the sawing cost. It's a few cents per bd/ft. The Lucas blade can be resharpened on the mill, and retipped by a local saw Doc when the carbide cutters have worn out (or you hit metal ) So blade costs should be less on the swingblade, but the difference to the overall cost isn't huge

Having said that. I'd still consider the Lucas or other swingblade mill in your situation. If you have a stump grinding business I would imagine the "add-on" to that business would be being able to saw up the log that came off the stump. You would have contacts with arborists and homeowners, so you make it known you have the sawmill service as well. This means you need to be portable, and that's one of the swingblade's strong points. You can carry and wheel it into someone's back yard and set up around a log where it's laying. No heavy machinery, no dug up lawn etc. Large logs are also no problem. You can of course cut small logs as well, but so can any other mill. You roll in, set up the mill, cut up the log, load up again, put ~$140 in your pocket and be on your way again.

The Lucas and LT15 are of course very different mill, and have their own strengths and weaknesses. But production wise, the Lucas would be more comparable to a LT35 style mill. As in, something you could run a business with. The human factor is usually the limiting thing with swingblade mills. The mill can saw a LOT of wood in a day, can you keep up moving it all day?  ??? :D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Darrel

If I really wanted to make money with my mill, I'd be rich for two reasons. First, when I do saw for some one else, I make pretty good money. Second, there is so much work out there that if I did it all, I wouldn't have time to spend the money so it would just accumulate.  :D

Seriously though, there is plenty of work out there and I really think you'd be happier with rhe LT28 over the LT15, especially if you plan to be mobile.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

WV Sawmiller

   I'd suggest a well maintained used LT35 or LT40 with hydraulics over a new LT28.

   I just finished cutting a little over 3800 bf of mostly 16' WP & poplar for a customer and my hydraulics never trembled when lifting, turning and clamping even logs near the threshold of what it is designed to handle. I even used the hydraulics (Moveable clamp) a couple of times to pull big logs off the top of the stack and on to the arms. These were way to big to move by hand. The customer did not have any support equipment and if we'd been using a manual mill we'd have had to split the larger logs or jury-rigged some other, slower and more dangerous method to load the logs.

    Any sawyer who does not have an awful lot of other support equipment should seriously consider getting a mill with good hydraulics.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

YellowHammer

If I was just starting out, I would definately get a hydraulic mill of some sort, or the equivalent level of swingblade.  I've never owned one, but have an acquanatince who does, and it will push out lumber fast.  I would also go with a company that answers the phone when I call, every time.  One who has good technical support, and can get parts to me fast.

Woodmizer provides all of that to me, so do other reputable companies. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Crossroads

I started with a manual mill, after one summer I added hydraulics to it. After 2 summers, I've upgraded to a new LT40 wide. i Have no regrets that I started the way I did, but t will definitely second the recommendations to start with hydraulics, they are worth every penny.
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

TKehl

You really should determine your market and log supply before plunking down $$.  It could be anything from urban timber to ???  I went with a swing mill first as I cannot compete with the local Mennonite mill on price and there is already a local established with a portable bandmill.  I hunt the oversize timber niche and pick up some other jobs here and there.

From your other post, I know you have a tractor.  That will help a ton with log handling.  Logs can be moved with winches, arches, and ramps, but it just takes longer.

With that said, entry level sawmills sell quickly and for near new price as long as they are kept up.  And making payment is a lot easier than making a living from a portable mill.  So the risk is pretty low.

As for Woodmizer, it is kind of the John Deere or Caterpillar of the band mill world.  Darn good machines with good support and as such, there is a small premium there (but also a premium if you sell it).  I don't have one, but they are worth strong consideration, though other makes and models are certainly worthy contenders.  If I upgrade my baby bandmill, I'll most likely be looking at either an EZ boardwalk 40 or a Cook's extra wide mostly for width capacity as mentioned above.

PS  If you get into sawmilling, you'll probably get a bit into firewood in order to get rid of the waste slabs.  2 dreams with one stone!   ;D
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

dirthawger

Guess ill really have to consider the hydraulic models. It wouldn't even be a question for me if it weren't for the unknown. The fear of not knowing if id get business is the only thing keeping me from getting one with hydraulics but from what I've read that won't be a problem.  I think what ill do is go with the lt35 but ill just wait and save up a few months worth of payments. But if i end up getting tons of business i might just sell my grinder.  Looks like if i wanted to be serious about sawing i wouldn't have time for a fulltime job, grinder, and sawmill. Ive been considering selling my grinder anyway.  Its seems quite seasonal and my payments are $558 a month and its just not quite the type of tree work i want to be in.

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