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Started by firefighter ontheside, November 08, 2017, 05:37:50 PM

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firefighter ontheside

Ianab, I think a log arch is definitely a good idea too.  I have a guy I work with who is a big welder guy.  I think I will have him help me make something.  I want the loader to lift stuff on and off of mill and trailer, but I dont want to be carrying logs for long distances on the loader.  I saw your post of the NZ pine tree.  Ive got some big southern yellow pine that I need to cut down and bring to the mill.  The bigger one is about 30" diameter.  I hope to cut these pines into 6x6's for a future expansion of my woodworking shop.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

TKehl

If loading the mill is the primary usage of a bigger tractor, it would be a lot cheaper to get a loading arch, use some timbers as ramps by the mill, and use the tractor you have to parbuckle up the ramp.  If mobile, I would substitute metal for the wood, but same concept. 

You would save enough to buy a good 3 point winch setup to.   ;)
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

mills

Another option would be to look around for an older wheel loader. Most people I've seen that moved logs very regularly with a tractor had it over-loaded at some point. Dad is on his second front end rebuild on his 4610.  :-\ He kept his track loader in the woods, but mostly used his tractor around his mill. And a ... I borrowed it a few times.  ;D

mike_belben

Bobcat made articulated machines that'd take a SSQA and lift a car.  Swinger, wacker neuson, volvo, case, IH, steiger or steiner i think .. There were quite a few.   Out here farm tractor based forklifts were common at mills.. Looks like a ford or case industrial tractor spun backward.  Pick up 5k and go offroad.  Theyre cheap, like 5 grand or less.

Id put an arch on your tractor and get a second piece of slightly different equipment better suited to loading. 

Fwiw, nothing beats a wheel loader with forks and a hydraulic thumb. 
Praise The Lord

Puffergas

For many years we had an old truck with a fork mask on the rear. Worked good and was a blast to make. I think the mask was rated for 8 ton.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

firefighter ontheside

Parbuckling is worth researching.  My concern is moving the mill as I'm pulling on the log with the tractor.  A winch attached to the mill will not try to move the mill as it's coming up the ramp.  The arch is something I need to do either way.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

thecfarm

Do you move your mill? I don't,so I sawed the top off of two hardwood trees,6 inches across,to make them flat. These are a little higher than my mill. I put my logs on top of these than I roll the logs onto the mill with a peavey. I lay down some ¼ inch flat stock to go from my flat top logs to the mill. Some make a big hinge. It's time to make some flat top logs. They are all rotten.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Andries

Quote from: firefighterontheside on November 09, 2017, 09:30:12 AM
. . .  I want to stay with a farm type tractor so I can keep using my 3 point devices and I dont want it so big that I cant drive around in the woods between trees.  I am not gonna have an all out logging business, but I want to be able lift logs onto the mill and unload my trailer or a trailer of someone who brings me logs to saw.  I'm thinking of a budget of about 15,000.

That price and those details fit my machine perfectly.

It's a Ford 545D.
65 hp. Loader lifting capacity 5000 lbs.
Starts well in the cold and has been a good machine.

The chunk of cement on the back end of "Betty Ford" will be replaced with some cast-iron wheel weights and fluid filled rear tires.
That frees up the 3 point hitch and the PTO.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Andries


A grapple does a great job of unloading trailers with fenders, or from inside a truck bed / dump trailer.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

firefighter ontheside

That would certainly fit the bill.  Only problem is that I'm planning to sell the tractor I have to help pay for the new one.  I don't think the Ford would meet my other tractor needs.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

YellowHammer

Most tractors with a farm heritage, both big and small, have loaders designed with round hay bales in mind.  That's why some really big farm tractors have the same lift capacity of some relatively small construction tractors.  It's all about designed use.

Ford, New Holland, John Deere and maybe others build certain tractors and loaders as crossover equipment, to be suited in both an agricultural as well as construction environment.  I've looked at several, and I have a New Holland that can lift an amazing amount of weight, and it is designed with heavy duty rear end, heavy duty front end, hydraulics, etc.  Deere M series are also strong, and with their loader can lift big weight.

Strong loaders and hydraulics are fine until you break an axle or two, which I did a couple times lifting with a tractor not designed for it.  Generally speaking, 4wd tractors have a heavier front end and are a little more robust.

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

firefighter ontheside

I keep thinking about that 545D and how it would be great, but I need to have a PTO and I read that most skiploaders don't have them.

Right now I'm hoping to find a Kubota L3750.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

North River Energy

Quote from: mike_belben


Your issue will realistically come down to the front axle capacity.  Knuckles and balljoints or kingpins are inherently weaker than an articlated machine with two straight axles.  Its why wheel loaders never have a front steer.  Even the old houghs had a solid front and rear steer.

For a time, Clark/Michigan offered an all-wheel steer loader, and built a similar front steer chassis and drivetrain for Massey Ferguson. Nice little machines if you can find one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vXfJ4KXjfU

http://www.lislesurplus.com/misc/470-massey-ferguson-4WD-loader-1968/
---
I'm currently rebuilding a mid 80's Ford 545 industrial, equipped with Pto and three-point hitch. That configuration may not be as rare as you think.

Regardless, if I read correctly, you don't really need a new tractor, you need a stronger loader.

Given the number of hours you're likely to put on it, maybe do as Mills suggests and shop for an 'obsolete' bucket loader. The market value is limited, as they're no longer good for production, and too big for homeowners.
Granted, you could put a few thousand into it while you work out the kinks and plug all the leaks, but once you get past that hurdle, you'd have a hard time wearing it out, if all you do is tote logs around the yard.

I've seen respectable Hough 30's and 50's on Craigslist in the 3 to 6k range, depending on year and condition, and a neighbor has a flogged but fixable Massey that could be had for scrap value.

I'd make you a sweet deal on a Michigan 125A. Needs a lot of work, but then you could lift your Kubota, along with your mill and the log you're sawing, all at the same time. Not to mention the bleachers filled with sawmill groupies :D

WDH

The kubota M series are more heavy duty than the L series.  My kubota M5640 can lift between 2500 and 2750 pounds.  It is 56 HP.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

firefighter ontheside

Thanks guys.
I'm thinking smaller than the Michigan.
I would love the M Kubota, but I think it's a bit big for what my dad would use it for.  We will share it and it has to be useable for him too.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

mike_belben

Man id love to have that 4ws loader.  Never seen one. 

Youll note right away the single piston uni-post boom and small bucket.  ..a designed limitation to protect the steer knuckles IMHO.

Its sad how many michigan 125A loaders ive put a torch to.  Only thing i could ever sell off them was the tires.  In western mass i couldnt get $2500 for one if it had a single issue. 
Praise The Lord

TKehl

I'm going to pitch going with two machines again. 

I bought a Kubota L2850 that I wanted as a "do everything" machine.  However, it was too big to mow the lawn and till the garden (plus gear transmission) and two small t really brush hog or do a lot in the woods.  We looked into upgrading to a similar size with hydrostat and 4x4.  Big $$ for me.  I stumbled on a B1550 for cheap that I intended to resell, but was impressed how it handled a 5' mower and 4' tiller well enough.  Sold the L2850 and bought an IH 706 with loader (70ish HP).  All told we are in them for FAR less than the "do everything" machine I thought I wanted.

Same thing on vehicles.  I wanted the crew cab, dually, 4x4 so I can take the family and pull a trailer.  Ended up with a 3/4 ton Suburban and a single cab F350 to pull goosenecks (both 4x4) for FAR less than the "do all" truck.  The math won't work on a new one, but worked well for the used equipment I look for.

Maybe sell your dad your tractor and get yourself something a bit older and bigger.  Give him a good deal so you could still borrow the little one when needed.   ;)
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

caveman

The M series Kubotas are easy to operate, comfortable and pretty nimble in the woods and around the mill.  I wish mine would lift more but that would be the case with anything-kind of like speed and horsepower on a vehicle-a little more is always desirable.   

  

 
Caveman

chevytaHOE5674

From my experience many of the skip loaders on the market like that ford 545d come with a 3pt and pto and for the size and money you will be hard pressed to find a stronger loader.

I've contemplated one for a loader machine that could also be used for farm work, my only downfall is that they are low slung and don't have a lot of underbodying clearance for hay work.

Larry

I have a small Ford 4wd tractor with FEL.  Wouldn't lift what I would like it to so I went shopping.  Tried both green and orange tractors in the 50 hp range.  Yes they might lift a good size log but it stressed both.  I didn't want to spend more nor did I want a 100 hp tractor to maintain.  Did that when I farmed. 

I found a Navigator truck mounted style forklift in excellent condition.  Lifts 6,000 pounds up to 12' high with ease.  It goes off road with better traction than a 2wd pickup but less than a 4wd truck.  Doesn't tear up the ground like a skidsteer.  It was perfect for me.  They were selling in the $5,000 to $8,000 range when I bought my lift....think I paid close to the upper end.  Kept the Ford tractor which I like.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

firefighter ontheside

TKehl, I'm not against the two machine theory.  In fact I was looking at skip loaders online today and they are surprising cheap for what you get.  If we got the skip loader and kept the L245,I wouldn't need PTO and maybe not even 4wd.
I agree about the two vehicle theory too.  I should have done that years ago when I got my first diesel truck.  I could have gotten a higher miles truck and a separate around town vehicle for less then I spent on one truck.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

Andries

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 10, 2017, 10:28:35 PM
. . .  many of the skip loaders on the market like that ford 545d come with a 3pt and pto and for the size and money you will be hard pressed to find a stronger loader. . . .  they are low slung and don't have a lot of underbodying clearance for hay work.
chevytahoe knows his machines!
The 545D aka 'skip loader' does have a PTO and 3pt. hitch.
I find it's great with a 6 foot Woods mower behind it.
... and like yellowhammer said, the crossover designed machines work well for exactly what you've said you need.

No, I haven't scratched heck out of my camera lens - we're working in the snow today.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

VAMuleskinner

I have a JD 2240 (55hp) with a loader.  Was pretty disappointed with the lift capacity on it, 2500lbs only with a rear counterweight and that is really pushing it.  I lucked out at an auction and purchased an old Clark forklift for 25 dollars.  I took the mast off of that and fabricated a way to use it with the 3 point on the tractor, works great.  If I find another older tractor cheap I will eventually hard mount the mast to the front of that tractor.  As far as skip loaders go I have a MF50 that has a backhoe on it, the lift capacity on it is around 5000pds.  It has a 540 pto but no 3point, the hoe can be removed pretty quick and simple.

Crusarius

I really wish I had kept my smaller machine. Tkehl is 100% right. My L2800 is to big for common yard use but to small for everything else.


GRANITEstateMP


. . .  I want to stay with a farm type tractor so I can keep using my 3 point devices and I dont want it so big that I cant drive around in the woods between trees.  I am not gonna have an all out logging business, but I want to be able lift logs onto the mill and unload my trailer or a trailer of someone who brings me logs to saw.  I'm thinking of a budget of about 15,000.
[/quote]

That price and those details fit my machine perfectly.

It's a Ford 545D.
65 hp. Loader lifting capacity 5000 lbs.
Starts well in the cold and has been a good machine.

We have got a FORD 445D on the farm.  Pretty sure this is the 3rd one, we've wore out two!  It gets used EVERY DAY.  It has 3pt hitch, and a 540 pto.  Used to clean manure out of the barns twice a day, and for feeding up twice a day (not at the same time, that would be gross ;D)  We have a rubber 1/2 tire on the back for scraping the manure out of the barn.  The 445D is rugged and pretty simple.  We go through front wheel bearings, and forward reverse switches, but also put wayyyy more hours on them than your average joe.  They are also easy to get on and off, since they are an "industrial" type machine.


---
I'm currently rebuilding a mid 80's Ford 545 industrial, equipped with Pto and three-point hitch. That configuration may not be as rare as you think.

Eric,  we still have a "parts" 445D.  A bunch of the parts are, ahhh, used up, but some may work.  Is your 545 a 2wd or 4wd?  Pretty sure our machine is a mid to late 90's

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