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Back up generator advice needed

Started by 47sawdust, November 03, 2017, 04:40:39 PM

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47sawdust

I want to purchase a back up power unit.What I have in mind is 5-6kw,1800 rpm water cooled diesel.
I know most folks use propane but I prefer not to go that route.Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Central Maine diesel has some affordable units,but I know nothing of their build quality.Marine diesel generators are a possibility but a little spendy.
Thanks,Mick
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

scsmith42

Find some local generator service companies and see if they have any good, used take-outs.

My local guy frequently has low hour, good used units that were removed from service.  Local telecom sites, etc, may exceed their generator capacity when they upgrade their equipment.  This means that their old, perfectly good units are replaced with higher capacity ones.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Klicker

What ever you get every couple of months start it up and let it run. This kips it working and fresh gas or fuel in it. Rod
2006 LT 40 HD

Coltbodi

Since you have that Kubota you could look into a pto driven generator. It's one less engine to keep running, but it does tie up your tractor when the lights go out. But you can get a bigger unit for less money since you aren't buying the motor with it.
If I can't fix it, I don't want it.
Timberking 1600 with lots of mods, a 65hp mahindra with a front end loader, a welding shop, and sugarcane mill from 1890 for making syrup

woodmaker

I went with diesel too.I'm not sure what you want to run,but if you want whole house capability ,5-6k might be a little small.I had a 5 k gas,and it worked well for lights etc,but wasn't big enough for well pump and furnace at the same time. Three years ago,I bought a used 12 k at the local generator installers open house. I set it up to run off my heating oil tank for the furnace,and this past week,it had it's first good test.We lost power for 36 hrs,and after sorting out some fuel line issues,(I put a ball valve in the suction line to prevent drain -back when changing filters;it allowed air to get in the suction line,then into the filters) we had good ,reliable  power,and actually used very little fuel
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

Runningalucas

We've had a 12kw kubota with a main 200 amp transfer switch.  Our power does go out a couple times a year during winter; usually no more than a couple days max. 

Gotta be careful to not wet stack it; usually we'll actually increase the load by just turning on the electric heat.

Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

47sawdust

Thanks for the response.We have gravity feed water,wood heat with a Rinnai propane heater for backup,so as long as we don't use the dryer,no big demands.
I'm doing some research on used light tower generators.The Magnum mlt 3060 has either a Kubota or Mitsubishi 3cyl,1800 rpm motor driving a Marathon 1800 rpm 6kw gen head.Some have extremely high hours,but I found a unit i Mass. with 445 hours.110 and 240 outlet.
They seem like a good fit for my situation.I thought about the pto unit,but I like the idea of the self contained and trailered feature of these light towers.Just take the lights off and put it in a small shed.The unit I looked at yesterday was very quiet.
What does the "wet stack it" mean?
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

thecfarm

I have not started looking yet.
Kinda think I would like a PTO one. No rebuilding of the carb,which had to be done,on my generator that came off the Mayflower. I had not used it for more than 10 years.It works good,6000 watts. Sucks down the fuel.  :o  I just plug it into to the side of the house,flick 6 switches in the basement and I can run the furnace,water pump,a few lights and a few outlets.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

North River Energy

Out of curiosity, why the objection to propane?

petefrom bearswamp

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

47sawdust

Why not propane? We use $400.00 of propane a year.I would have to get bigger tanks or tank to support the genset.
The trailer feature works well in my application.
I'm open to ideas.I'm just more at ease with the small diesel generator.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Runningalucas

http://www.ckpower.com/wet-stacking-avoid/

Wet stacking, or I 'think' it's also referred to as Carmelization.  It's where you run a diesel without the load necessary to make sure the temps are where they should be at.  Without the proper load, the generator will build a lot of carbon up in the cylinders, and onward.

When sizing the diesel generator, you're gonna need to make sure it's loaded sufficiently. 
Life is short, tragedy is instant, it's what we do with our time in between that matters.  Always strive to do better, to be better.

WV Sawmiller

47,

   Personal opinions but how much more would it cost to get a bigger tank? How responsive is your gas company to just refilling existing tanks more often if needed? Keep in mind you'd likely need them to come refill during power outages and emergency conditions. But that is also the conditions you will be out running around trying to find diesel unless you already have a big tank you are comfortable will support you during emergencies.

   I am lucky - I have natural gas. I bought and installed a 17 KVA Guardian genset. Six years ago we had a derrechio storm with hurricane force winds which knocked out power to the surrounding 5 states. Our power was out for 11 days. My genset has an ATS and cranked itself 10 seconds after the outage and ran for 11 days. The only time it was off was once for me to change the oil and a couple times to check the oil. No real maintenance required. Cranks itself weekly and runs 10-12 minutes to charge the battery. While we lost power we did not lose natural gas - I have never lost both at the same time in the 27+ years we have lived here. My neighbors were making daily trips to our one local gas station with power (genset) to run their pumps and waiting in line up to an hour to get the $20 limit/ration of gas to run their small gensets. Others drove up to 100 miles down into VA to find fuel.  Neighbors brought food up to put in our freezer and extra reefer and to take showers since without power they had no water from their wells.

    Just more to think about. Good luck in your decision and search.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

47sawdust

WV Sawmiller,
You're points are well taken.I will have a conversation with my propane company.Our present account is set up where they only come fill the tank when it reaches 20%.It takes us 14 months to get to that point.That's 2- 120 gallon tanks.
Our domestic hot water is heated by solar in the summer and wood stove water jacket in the winter which is supplemented by a 40 gallon propane heater.We cook with gas as well,although the wood cook stove does much of the work.No furnace,no water pump.
The longest we've been down in the 40 years I've lived here was 3 days.The diesel just seemed the cheapest to get into,$3k for working 6kw genset.Perhaps my thinking is flawed and I need to do more homework.Thanks for all the input.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Kbeitz

Quote from: thecfarm on November 05, 2017, 07:26:00 AM
I have not started looking yet.
Kinda think I would like a PTO one. No rebuilding of the carb,which had to be done,on my generator that came off the Mayflower. I had not used it for more than 10 years.It works good,6000 watts. Sucks down the fuel.  :o  I just plug it into to the side of the house,flick 6 switches in the basement and I can run the furnace,water pump,a few lights and a few outlets.

Why not turn you old gen-set into a PTO gen set.
I have done this to many generators .
It's not even a problem with the one with a tapered shaft.



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

gspren

  Reading this now has me thinking which usually costs me $$. I have a welder/generator with a 20 HP Honda engine that puts out 10K as a generator. I very seldom do any welding so it sits way too long between uses although I try to start it occasionally. I have a Kubota BX 2670 that would probably run a 10-12K pto generator and take up less room plus less maintenance and probably on less fuel. Any one use a pto gen on a little Kubota?
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

thecfarm

Kbeitz,you are a cleaver one. Reminds me of my FIL.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

woodmaker

I chose diesel over propane because I always have diesel fuel around,(skid tank for equipment,loaders ,dozers, dump trucks etc.) but would have to depend on someone else to bring me propane.I'm sure in an emergency,their bigger customers would get higher priority than a small residential customer .My feeling is "the fewer people i have to depend on in an emergency,the happier I am". I can always move diesel with a tank in my pickup,cant do that efficiently with propane. Just my thoughts
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

WV Sawmiller

47,

   If you have not ruled them out entirely for other reasons, if just pricing I'd check on the propane gensets. I checked Home Depot and a 20KVA was under $5K and a 9KVA was under $3K. Sounds like you may find they are much cheaper than diesel and less maintenance once you get one.

    I first saw them while we were building the Embassy in Haitii and was impressed with how small and quiet they were and since I have natural gas I opted for that. I think I paid around $3k for mine delivered and have a friend from the local electric company who installed it for me.

   Everybody's situation is different as to needs, equipment experience, availability of various types of fuel, etc. All this needs to be considered in making such a purchase. I will say I love my genset and knowing 10 seconds after prime power fails mine cranks and shifts power to local. During my 11 day use 6 years ago I think my natural gas bill went up less than my electric bill decreased.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Kbeitz

If you like auctions and like to tinker you can save lots of cash...
I got a total of $50.00 in my 5kw system.



 



 



 



 



 



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

North River Energy

Mick,
A number of years ago, I bought a barely used Onan CCK 4k propane unit complete with switchgear off Craigslist. Might have paid 700, but I forget, which means it probably cost even less.  It's enough to keep the furnace circulators running, and I can run the shallow well pump as needed with a little creative plugging and toggling. Have been using the larger propane tanks from the local hardware store, and those work fine unless it's really cold, when they have a tendency to ice up.

After this last storm, I called our propane supplier to find out what it would cost to get a larger dedicated tank to deal with the icing problem. I assumed the minimal gas consumption would require a monthly tank rent, but no. Since the account already involves gas for cooking and shop heat, there will be no extra monthly charge for the tank. Game on.

Hopefully your distributor has a similar policy.

Despite being reliant on a gas supplier, the 'no fouling' nature of propane gives it a distinct advantage for instant on, standby use. Or at least that's my opinion, having thrashed about with a number of gasoline powered units.
.

If I had to power something full time, I'd go with diesel. If I needed universal portability, then I'd use gasoline. For instant reliable emergency power, it's hard to beat propane.

woodmaker

kbeitz,I wish my generator enclosure looked as nice as yours!
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

sawguy21

'For instant reliable emergency power, it's hard to beat propane.' Natural gas if available or propane is really the way to go for clean reliable standby power. Contaminated or stale fuel is never an issue so extended storage is practical. Units like the one WV Sawmiller has can be equipped with oil and battery warmers that run off the utility power. If it is cold enough for the propane to freeze up that diesel ain't gonna start without some help.
If someone who can start the system is available when the power goes off the manual systems work but what if it is 100 above or 30 below when nobody is home for an extended period of time? The automatic systems really shine here. Just my .02Cdn, ymmv
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

47sawdust

NRE and the rest of the propane crowd,

I've about reached the tipping point.The experience of those who have gone before is important to listen too.Thanks for all your input.
A 15 year old Kohler 7kw unit with 169 hours is a possibility.Local Kohler dealer says it's an excellent unit Propane company says no problem,keep an eye on the tanks and refill when needed.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

gasman1075

I sold and installed LP systems and LP generators for many years and am propane certified ( Master and Journeyman licenses ) and my only advice for sure is to buy a tank if you can and bigger is better. One gallon of LP nets you 92,516 BTU. A 7KW ( 144,000 btu ? ) burns about 1.5 GPH.  A 500 gallon tank vaporizes at about 634,000 BTU / hour at 20' F and A horizontal 500 gallon tank nets you about 400 +/- gallons of propane or about 283 hours of run time or 11 days at 24/7. When you use your generator the most your LP company probably doesn't have power either. They may have a 3 phase generator to run their LP plant ( load trucks etc. )  but most don't. I sell propane as well ( wholesale only ) and cover VT also. If you call me at the office 518-733-0101 I'll help if I can.

Thanks

Jack
JD 2302R/Stihl MS461/Stihl MS261/ Timberwolf TW-P1/ new left hip /

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