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Sold my equipment tried underground mining. Going back logging again

Started by U.P mich, October 30, 2017, 10:40:51 PM

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mike_belben

It took me most of my life to conclude money and happiness are often inversely proportional.  Best of luck back in the woods man.

Hebrews 13:5
Praise The Lord

Pclem

U.P mich, you said you are going into a niche market with small acreage. Mind me asking what kind of equipment  you'll be buying? I'm assuming hand cutting with a skidder or forwarder? Just assuming it is harder to make a profit with larger equip.
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

62oliver

U.P mich, do you mind if I ask what did you not like about the mining gig?
Husqvarna 266, Case 90xt, JD310C, TJ240E, 02 Duramax

U.P mich

Yes I'll be hand cutting with a forwarder and a small cable Skidder . I had the large equipment 13+ load / week operation and it isn't as good as you may think. I made more money personally when I was a one man show with a powersaw and forwarder 10 years ago.  Way less stress being a smaller operation also.   As for mining I can't handle being underground all day when all my life I've been in the woods.  I'll take the bugs and the rain and the snow over being underground any day. Lol

Firewoodjoe

U.P this is what I'm looking at doing. If u could only afford a cable skidder first would u buy one or barrow money for a forwarder? What kind of production are u expecting from yourself? Good luck to u. We all need it! :)

U.P mich

Hands down I would get a forwarder right away.  Ideally both would be nice to have as cable Skidders are handy when a forwarder can't get to the wood but I find a forwarder more efficient. Easier for a one man operation to produce, cleaner logs so the mills like it, nicer piles and better sorts so the truckers like it.  I can normally produce 30 cord a day in decent timber lil less in small wood lil more in large wood. It's a long day to cut it all and get it picked up but once the snow flies everything has to be picked up the same day so the production slows down some.  Summer I can cut 2 or 3 days than forward one whole day and repeat

Firewoodjoe

Your felling bucking and skidding 30 cord a day? So 150 cord a week by yourself?

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

U.P mich

I cut daylight to dark with brakes in between when I'm tired and skid early mornings and evenings if I can. Otherwise Saturday is for skidding.That's pulp logs and bolts combined  in decent 14" minimum dbh heavy cut   I'd say most trees are 16-18" dbh marked around 15 cord / acre. And I have an efficient system for bucking wood that makes it easier than I see a lot of people doing.   Like I said tho once the snow hits and I have to cut and skid the same day the production will decrease by about 5-8 cord / day. In This case it makes it nice to have an employee to forward so I can keep cutting but employees are extremely expensive and in my experience unreliable lol. I know of another one man crew like this that has been doing 25 cord / day consistently for 18 years with 1 part time employee that helps out now and than.  I can't keep up the 30+ cord / day forever. Eventually I'll slow down I'm sure.  But today isn't that day lol . 

chep

As a hand chopper in front of a forwarder I would love to hear some of your bucking methods to cut 30 cord a day. Not doubting you, cos in the right wood it is definitely doable. But 6 days a week? Our 12 ton double bunk holds about 3.5 cord. Average day in marginal wood I can cut 3 forwarder loads without killing myself. Big wood good ground you can double or better. 
30 cord a day is a pretty big number. Is it loggers choice or marked wood?

U.P mich

I had a double bunk timberjack 1210 b when I started hand cutting. 5 cord bunk heaped.   And I would cut 5 loads a day in nice wood  3 in smaller wood
Recently I had a fabtek 546c 5 cord bunk. And I would cut 5 loads a day for that in nice wood.  I'm not saying I got it all skidded the same day but it all got skidded eventually.  Like I said once winter hits and all the wood must be picked up every day production falls substantially with a one man operation.  Now it's not possible to achieve 25-30 cord / day in small wood.  It's just not.   Mature oak stands .  Old growth hard maple stands.  We are talkin 3-4 10' sawlogs/ tree and a few sticks of pulp all day long .  That's what's on a lot of state and federal forest sales around here. As well as private sales.   Have to pick and choose jobs wisely when hand cutting.  Once in a while a low production job has to be cut but if I can't make money on a job or barely break even than I can't cut it unless it's a favor . Or just one bad job out of many good ones for a land owner. 10 cord / day is a good day in small timber or rough terrain I'd be proud to produce that .  It just makes it so much easier to produce high volumes in the right wood.  That's what I'm always on the search for.  I. Etc if you converted you sawlog volumes to cordage you would be higher than you think.  I just go by total cordage ex. 5 buggie loads full with a 5 cord capacity buggy is 25 cord day.  Once on the landing in the form of pulp, bolts logs firewood etc. It doesn't look like much but after a few days you get some loads hauled and see what you really had.  It's real close.  I buck the wood with a 10'9" long 3/4 inch plastic tubeing with red electrical tape wrapped around it at 99" , 105" and 129"  that way I just lay the stick down and cut next to the red tape line I need.  A tape measure and paint or foresters tape takes to long.  I don't cut many over 10'9" unless it's veneer .

Gearbox

I have said this befor . There is something about seeing the sun come up on a winter morning in the woods . Better yet seeing Hawks Hitting rodents in a Spruce swamp . Going in befor the sun comes up seeing Deer Cats Wolves and things every day that most people never see . That is the reason we do what we do and why some people Don't get it .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Firewoodjoe

Well that is awesome UP. And I hope to achieve that also. When u do a thinning and hand cut and buck it at the stump how much trouble do u have getting those forwarders close enough? That's what I worry about buying a forwarder vs cable/grapple. I've done it but that was with a iron mule. They are like an atv in the woods. Not like the last decades equipment.

mike_belben

How are you guys figuring the amount of cordage here?  Is this timber getting processed into firewood? Or weighed or something?
Praise The Lord

Firewoodjoe

I'm figuring on 128 cubic feet. Isn't any cord 128 cubic feet? Unless your talking ricks or face cords but I don't think anyone is here. And no one has mention per thousand which there's two cord per thousand. The only diff in production would be dbh or if it's 10s 12s vs say 8s.

chep

Thanks for the reply u.p mich! Good stuff. Sounds like you have a great system worked out and from the sounds of it you won t have any issues getting back in the game.

You are right about the forwarder landings. It is very deceptive how much wood is there with lots of sorts. 

So your measuring tube. Do you roll it up and un  roll it for every tree or do you just drag it around? I use a spooled self rewinding tape. We do a lot of diff lengths up to 20 ft so I find it the quickest to set the nail at the defect or butt or tip and work off that.

mike_belben

Yeah its 128 cubic foot.  What im asking is if your hauling out logs that get cut into firewood, stacked and measured one time to come up with the "it fits 5 cord" figure.. Or was it some other way?
Praise The Lord

U.P mich

I use the plastic tube at the 10'9" length with red tape marks along it where my sort lengths need to be cut. and I just carry it around its way faster than using a retractable tape. You could even use a nice straight light stick .  It will cut your bucking time in half I guarantee  it.    I buck as I go down the tree cutting off limbs as I get to them.   As for forwarding hand bucked wood it isn't difficult unless you are in steep terrain or you fall in an area you cannot drive to such as a stream or property line.  Work on directional felling and plan 3 or 4 trees ahead where you need them to go and I'd recommend a forwarder with an extendable boom and you shouldn't have a problem.  As for cordage talk.  A cord is 128 cf.  or in pulpwood terms. 4'x4'x8' long is a pulp cord / loggers cord  my last forwarder held 5 cord. Mind you a lot of what I cut and hauled was logs obviously measured by mbf but I just call it cord when I haul full buggy loads so I know how much I cut without stick scaling everything.   Our pulpwood here is measured mostly by the ton at the mill. Tho some mills stick scale on the truck. 

mike_belben

I think youre missing my question U.P.    ill rephrase.

When i haul in a load of fresh cut white oak sawlogs that scales 1300 board foot and weighs 23,000 lbs.. How many cord have i got?   Only way i can think to figure it out is cut/split/stack and count how many cord it makes.  I suppose if it was all one length of logs i could measure the bundle dimension and find cubic volume of the shape.
Praise The Lord

Gearbox

Mike White oak is a little heaver than Red . Red here is payed on a 5000 pound cord . That was about what I hauled on my 3 axel .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

mike_belben

Thanks.  I finally got off my lazy butt and googled it.  Heres a really thorough chart of various industrial wood metrics.

http://www.globalwood.org/tech/tech_wood_weights.htm
Praise The Lord

bushmechanic

We used to lug around a measuring stick, now we have the measure on the saw. It's great you never lose it and it's always with you.

 

Firewoodjoe

Is that just a small red rod sticking out? So u use the hole saw and the rod combined?

bushmechanic

Yes the whole saw and the whip together...makes four feet. if you like you can put whatever marks on it with black tape to get your specific length. I mostly cut eight feet so it's two smacks with the saw and cut above the mark.

U.P mich

That's an interesting measuring system. Perhaps I'll give that a try . I'm always looking for a faster more efficient way of doing things .  Tho it seems it may be difficult to judge more than one length.  I can cut 3 lengths with the stick I carry and if I must go longer which doesn't happen often. It's easy to measure  the next length.   How do you go about cutting various lengths with that measuring system?  As my standard lengths are 99".  104" and 128"   I have these all on the same stick .

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