Black Locust, Sugustions welcome

[Lenny_M]

 Got some Black Locust to saw. I have never sawn this stuff and don`t know much about it. I have heard it`s hard and rot reseistant and maks good fence post.
 This person wants 4/4 and 8/4 for floring and furnature like table tops,ect.
  Should this be quarter sawn or flat sawn?What would be more stable for flooring and what would be better for table tops?
 He is going to have this lumber kiln dried. Any tips on drying would also be welcome
 Normally I run 10 deg hook blades for most woods and 4 deg for hard and frozen wood.If this wood is hard to saw? should I try somethang like a 2 deg blade ?
 Also is this wood known to have a lot of stress,Cupping or twisting charistics.Normally Hardwoods i go by the 4/4 and 8/4 scale on the WM and if there`s a lot of stress i`ll go a bit thicker.
                            Thanks    Lenny

[Curlywoods]

My suggestion for any woods that are known to move alot (Sycamore, Madrone, Locust, etc. I always suggest that it been quarter sawn as it will be more stable.  Now that is my suggestion, but your customer might like the look of flat sawn wood more than quarter sawn Locust :-)  I would ask him his prefernece and give him the facts and pitfalls.  

[Curlywoods]

I need a spell checker :D

[Tom]

www.iespell.com  will get you what the rest of us use.  it's free ;D

[Curlywoods]

Tom,

 Only problem is that I do not use IE.  I use FireFox browser as it is more secure and faster than most of the current browsers.   Maybe I need to go back to IE so that my spelling can be proofed :D

[Frank_Pender]

I am about to acquire some Black Locust here in the next few weeks.  My plan is to make some sample flooring for marketing purposes.  If it want to move then I will seek more logs to fill demand.

[Gary_B]

I sawed some locust last summer, and it really sawed easy, I was using a 10 degree set, I was sawing 6x6's to use for my pole building I waa surprised how pretty the lumber was. Only problem I had was trying to find large enough Black locust.

[Tom_Averwater]

I sawed some Black locust with monkkey blades with the 10 degree hook and it cut real nice. 8) Tom

[Norm]

I don't know if it's just me or not but the ones I have sawn had quite a bit of tension in them. I use 9 degree blades and they were no harder to saw than white oak. A large one without borers in them are uncommon but the wood is pretty stuff and if I can get enough saved up I'm going to make flooring out of it.

[Lenny_M]

 Tkanks fer the replys.
 I`ll talk to him today and probally saw it next saterday. That will give him a week to decide what he wants.
 Then he`ll see the first log upened up and change his mind.I have milled lumber for him before and each weekend the cut sheet changed.We sawed for a timber frame house that was going to be built up north in Lancaster N.H.
 I don`t think he has built yet,but the lumber was stickered off the ground and top of piles covered.
                                                  Lenny

[Lenny_M]

 I got another ??. Is Locust sawdust toxic to horses. I will be milling next to the barn and pasture.
 I`ve heard that wallnut is bad for them. Don`t want to see any unexpected problems.
                                           Thanks   Lenny

[populus]

Black locust is quite toxic to horses, but bark consumption is the usual problem. There are many reports of death of horses due to consumption of locust leaves, branches or bark. There is less inforrmation in the toxic plants databases about exposure to wood, sawdust or shavings. Locust dows cause laminitis in horses, so it may be that absorption of robinin (the toxin) through the hooves could occur from shavings or sawdust.Prudence might indicate that you keep the sawdust and shavings away from horses and other livestock

We face similar problems, milling a variety of species on farms, some with very valuable livestock.  We try to keep material from walnut, locust, red maple and cherry away from any place where livestock might be present.

[Carl_B]

We have flat saw black locust and it saw a lot like white oak. I would saw it on the 4/4 scale . It will move some when you dry not near as bad as some of the elm and cherry that we have sawed. There are some wood workers out  that are looking for it. I use it for outside wood  in place of treated wood. I have some in the kiln that I am drying wood worker right now.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Lenny,
  I have found you will lose some of the stress if you let the logs sit for a few months before sawing.  Seal the ends and let them lay.  Hickory does better if you can let it sit as well but in the summer you can not as the PPB's get into them and some staining begins most quick.  That is not a problem with black locust.  Keep the dust and bark away from the ponies.  10 degree blades will do fine and be careful as to much lube will cause you more problems then to little.
ARKANSAWYER

[ohsoloco]

This thread has got me thinking, is there any info. in the knowledge base about what kinds of sawdust are toxic to animals  ???  I only ever knew about black walnut, but it appears that there's more than I expected.  

[populus]

Black walnut is the best known tree with strong livestock toxicity.  Others (in North America) known or potentially causing problems are:

1. Black locust wood contains robinin, toxic to horses and possibly cattle
2. red maple bark, twigs, leaves contain saponins, toxic to cattle and horses. The wood is less recognized at toxic, but it is probably wise to avoid contact of livestock with fresh wood shavings or sawdust.
3. Buckeye and horsechestnut. All plant parts of all species are lethal to livestock.  I know of no reports specific to the wood, but milling residues should be kept away from livestock.

I have not included any subtropical or tropical (e.g. Florida) species. Many tropical trees have wood that causes skin irritation or toxicity. Milling tropical trees is a much greater problem.

The problems with wood shavings appear to apply only to new shavings, either from new or old wood. Shavings aged or composted for a month or so are generally free of problems.

Hope this is helpful. The number of species that we need to be careful with is thankfully very small. Just be careful with the species listed above and you should not have any problems with livestock.

[woodmills1]

I have some of them dang horsechestnut trees and while they look good for 2 minutes in the springtime you can have em.  The nut husks have burrs that are a pain and it seems to drop stuff all the time.  Half the stuff is sticky so makes its way inside the house all the time and the wood is so soft it doesn't even burn well. And then there are the weeping willows..........................

[Lenny_M]

Went and checked out the black locust.Looks nice 12-26" Dia Mostly 8 and 10` long with a few crotckes mixed in. There is about 1500BF in the pile and a few more to be cattied out of the woods.
 Gave the owner the heads up about the horses.It is piled beside the barn and fence for the pasture. They said they will clean up the mess when i finish for the day,
 Forcast is snow for sat so probally get started on sunday ;D
                                                      Lenny

[Lenny_M]

 Tryed to saw Black Locust today.Started with  a big crotch.
 No way could I cut a board today with this stuff.Really wavey cuts and the blade tenstion going all over the place, Up and then down then back up.
 Tryed sawing with and without lube???
 Tryed 3 diffrent blades, all did the same.
  Took the big crotch off the mill  and put up a smaller peice, about 12" dia, Same results  >:(
 Could this because its frozen.
 The mill has been cutting good, Whe have been cutting Oak,Rock Maple,Bass And Butternut With No problems. ???
                                                          Lenny

[Larry]

blade tenstion going all over the place, Up and then down then back up.

Lenny,
On my Kasco when I see the tension gauge going up and down in big swings I'm in deep do-do and know something is wrong with the band.  If your going from say a 12" wide cut into a knot or the butt where the cut is 24" wide you know the tension will drop a little and pick back up when ya exit so that is pretty much normal.

I like to saw black locust frozen or not.  8 degree band with 18 thous set and it saws better than white oak for me.

[Gary_B]

 I sawed 3 black locust logs this morning about 20 inch diameter, , the temperature was up in the upper 40's. I sawed the 3 with same blade and still appeared to be sharp, no problems at all.

[Norm]

Lenny I wonder if your logs are half frozen, I had the same thing happen to me on walnut which is normally pretty easy to saw. They froze up solid and the problem went away.

[Lenny_M]

Norm_F
 The logs were half frozen.
 We`re putting this pile off until thangs thaw out in the spring.
                                 Lenny