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This Dang Peterson

Started by Qweaver, October 13, 2017, 01:25:29 PM

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Qweaver

I have worked for three days trying to get this WPF 10 to saw correctly.  I have gone thru the setup according to the manual and video.  Re-tipped the blades.  I'm at my wits end.  I would gladly pay someone  $500 plus transport to come and make this saw cut as it should.  As I was re-tipping the blade I noticed that the tips appeared to have very little relief.  The manual does not address this but I am considering grinding a little more back angle on the tips and see if that helps.  I've got a huge red oak to saw and I can just not do it under the current setup.  BTW this saw has always been difficult to work. Always. I know it must be something that I am doing wrong---but dang if I can figure out what?

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

scsmith42

Quinton, I'll give you a call one evening soon.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

drobertson

Hold tight, I'm sure so help is on the way, either by post,, hope so for the rest of us, or by a pm,, peterson and lucas are very similar and there are a few users here,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

ButchC

Something is seriously wrong because sawing good lumber quickly on mine is as easy as falling down and it's  the first mill I have ever run. Certainly no expert here but might help if we knew what is is doing wrong other than "not sawing correctly" that's a pretty broad statement.  Can you post pictures of the blade tips so  I can compare them to my new blade?
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

scsmith42

Quinton, here is how the tips look on two of my blades.



  [/img]




 
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Savannahdan

I feel for you.  I've been trying to get some logs cut and have been fighting rainy weather.  I also had the gremlin climb onboard my mill and moved the brake lever while I was half way through an oak log.  Thought the system had gone totally bad on me.  On one hand it's something sort of simple but on the other it sure messes with your cutting.  I'm sure there's someone close to you that can help.  If the wife didn't have some health issues I'd offer to work with you to resolve the problem(s).  Good luck.
Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill, Logosol M8 Farmers Mill

Qweaver

Hey Scott, sorry about the mis-name.  Many years(and old age) dull the memory.  As I suspected when I grinded a little more relief on the tips the saw began cutting much better.  Thanks for the pics.  I have the saw set up as close to the manual as I can get.  Crosshatch and lean in are near perfect and I think it is cutting well enough to do this big oak now...not perfect but pretty good.  Still harder to push than the saw I saw working in Pa. this summer.   I have not been using water while doing this setup but will use in on the oak job.  Do you have my number?
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

shenandoahsawmill

Quinton; Where are you located? I am near Winchester, Va. and might be able to help if you are not more than a couple hrs. drive. I ran a Peterson WPF for a few years and came up with a sharpener that works better than OEM. Gary

Qweaver

Hi Gary, we are about 3 hours from  Winchester, Va.  I'd sure be interested in better sharpener and help with my mill.
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

shenandoahsawmill

Quinton; Call me if you want to talk over  details. 540-686-0351 Gary

MbfVA

 Peterson sent me something about a new sharpener they have, though it looks similar to the old one.

Have you checked level front to back (and of course side to side)?  Sometimes a tiny little bit of difference can make a big difference in pushing effort, in particular.

I would also make sure that the brake on the top left is not getting in the way, I've had it intrude unexpectedly.

My recollection is that finer looking sawdust is an indication of blade issues,  with kind of long stringy looking "sawdust" being the best indication of a correctly sharpened blade.

My experience is not extensive, newer owner here, so I'm probably not the best person to advise you,  but I'm a quick study, so I'll help where I can.

Keep the dialogue going and let's see if collectively we can help further-- I'll be looking out for what I can learn as well.

The Peterson folks have a toll-free number (figure in the time difference) , and Left Coast may be able to help as well.
www.ordinary.com (really)

firefighter

Hi Gary I have a 2009 WPF model .I would also be interested in the sharpener you are talking about could you send me some info on it thanks .Qweaver I was not sharpening the whole tip properly and Chris Brown showed me how to do it the proper way . Give Aaron Kalan a shout on there 1-800 number and he will help you out .

barbender

A friend has a shop built swing mill, I've seen him have problems sawing when the blade lead was not set correctly.
Too many irons in the fire

bandmiller2

Quint, first thing I would try is a different saw. When theirs a problem with any circular mill the saw and its tension is always suspect, with lead close behind. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ButchC

Glad the see you are figuring it out. I have a sheet somewhere with the sharpening specs for my blades but unsure if they are the same for my smaller mill? 

A few years ago I spent a lot of time in your neck of the woods when they built the 4 lane between Buckhannon and Elkins, cooridoor H I think it is called?, we crused the rock. I'd drive down but don't think I have enough experience to be of much help.
.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

dgdrls

Q' 

I'm unclear what your challenge with the mill is,
Sounds like you have the adjustments dialed-in.
is it making bad lumber? 

I suspect the Peterson and Lucas share a very similar tooth spec.
Here is what I have in my manual if its any help.

FWIW I would be very conservative on adding more back-angle,
you will be taking strength out of the cutting face of the tooth

keep us posted

Best
D



 



terrifictimbersllc

The adjustments
-tops of rails are parallel to each other by sighting, sag is taken out by the track levelers in the center, mill rolls freely along length.  A level can help but sighting is more accurate. 
-chain lengths hang the mill frame the same everywhere (measure bottom of mill frame to the bottom SS cross members of the end frame at all 4 corners). If engine is at one end then this measurment will be 1/16 or so lower there than at the other end

Blade adjustments, Level the top of a log, then:

-horizontal lean-in, where the blade is tilted down to the right just a little, cut 2" in, then again another 8" in, the ridge from the 2" cut should be visible.

-horizontal criss-cross, the blade marks made by front of blade and back of blade are the same, adjust both nylon rollers the same accordingly

-vertical criss-cross, front of blade marks and back of blade marks are the same, AND, at your end of the log where the blade exits in a pulled vertical cut, the blade can re-enter exactly into this kerf.  Trust the latter more than the criss cross if they're different.  The adjustment is by turning the nuts on either side of the right roller on the head to which the handle is attached.  Removing the handle or turning these without remembering that this affects the adjustment has messed me up before. If the blade exits the log and won't reenter the same kerf there is also a "zinging" sound and there can also be difficulty pulling the saw in vertical cuts with it tending to want to go backwards. Adjust as necessary regardless of criss cross to get the reentry exact.

-vertical intersect adjusted by the stop bolts to get a perfect intersect

Stress in logs can make the above adjustments look off some times but most of cuts should be easy.

Of all these points the least obvious is chain lengths, chain can jump a link on sprocket if something blocks raising/lowering the frame when loading etc.

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

woodyone.john

I think TT covered most of it but ,
Check the wheels the frame runs on,sawdust or a flat spot will cause quite a lot of resistance.Also if the small grooves are not on the right side the your alignment will be some ways off.Using it like that will result in loss of tension in the blade. As in all things ,small things matter.
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Don P

Just another thought to throw out there. With the discussion on log stress, I've had bowing logs cause all kinds of trouble too.

Qweaver

Quote from: scsmith42 on October 13, 2017, 03:09:29 PM
Quinton, here is how the tips look on two of my blades.


Thanks for the pics  Scott.  Your  blade looks like it has more front relief than mine and that may be the problem.  Also Peterson says the tip should have side relief and yours and mine do not look like they do.  My tips were bought from Peterson and should be right.  I got a diamond blade today and will do some work on the tips tomorrow. 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Larry

Have you checked with a local sharpening shop?  The guy I use has a computer controlled machine he got from Germany but he said its common in most professional shops.  I watched as he programmed in parameters to sharpen a blade.  For uncommon blades they still have a manual machine.  I just picked up a 14" 40 tooth table saw blade  that they replaced 7 tips and sharpened.  All for $30.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

MbfVA

I have only had my WPF 10 for a few months,  but I have wondered about something recently that is not covered in the manual, and I wonder if it has any thing to do with the original posters question:

My mill has the Hi-low feature, where the saw head carriage rides on a high rail on 1 side that allows logs to more easily be rolled into working position.

On the low side, the supporting rail (or track) fits right into each crossmember (or skid, per the manual), with no adjustment, other than leveling each crossmember side to side as a final step.  The instructions address the importance of this leveling, especially important to double cutting, I would think.

On the high side the 3 supporting uprights that support the high rail are adjustable as to actual height inside the pockets of the skids, because they are secured in the skids at the chosen height with T knob screws and can be set within a certain range as to height, several inches of range, at least.

Unless I'm missing something, the Peterson instructions make no mention of the height setting of the high rail/track.  They only address front to back leveling, of both the high & low rails.

Somehow my saw head as far as I can tell is almost exactly level side to side, but I'm not sure how it wound up that way.  Coincidence?

I have experience some of the difficulties that the original poster cites.  Best I can tell, I need to go through the four adjustments detailed by Peterson, and ad noted by a prior poster above.

Do any Peterson owners think that the absolute height of the high side rail/track makes a difference?  I had a lot of difficulty getting the saw carriage installed onto the rails initially.  I attributed most of this to our very sloping site for setting up the mill--leveling our right side rail, the lower rail, was a big chore requiring lots of shimming.

My tiny little bit of engineering intuition tells me that high side height, not just the front to back leveling, must make a difference.  It is not addressed in the set up instructions supplied by Peterson.

Maybe the same thing applies to Lucas, except that both its rails ride up and down on its supporting posts, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

The topic must seem foreign to band mill owners, with a lot of the concerns we have based on the separation of what holds the log and the sawmill head,  which goes to their versatility and usefulness/portability.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Ianab

In my experience the 2 rails do not need to be perfectly level. They need to be perfectly parallel, but if one is an inch or 2 higher or lower because of the terrain, it makes no real difference. The cuts aren't referenced from the bunks or the ground, they are referenced from the last cut. If that was at a 2° angle, the vertical cut will also be moved by a matching 2° and will intersect the same. The log will be cut off straight, just at a that 2° angle. The next layer will be the same, and everything will stay square. Even double cutting, the blade is still at that same angle, and matching the top side of the board.

Obviously you can't run the mill on a crazy angle because it won't stay on the tracks properly, but the actual height of the 2 rails isn't critical, which is probably why the manual doesn't worry about it.

But yes getting the carriage on the rails on uneven ground can be a hassle as the mill's transport wheels can end up in a hollow, and you can't get the rollers high enough to move over the rails. This problem goes away once you get a good pile of sawdust around the mill site.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Savannahdan

I work the adjustments for the Lucas mill simply by first getting the rails/tracks parallel to each other, next I get the center (pith) of each end of the log the same distance to one of the rails/tracks, and then I get the logs center (pith) and carriage the same distance on each end of the log.  These may require either adjusting the log on the bunks/ground to the mill or the mill to the log. I periodically check the parallel of the rails/tracks.  Just the other day I had the mill at a severe angle front to back which meant that I had to push or pull the carriage quite a bit.  Frankly I got in a rush to get a big red oak cut and didn't want to dig holes in the yard or spend more time raising or lowering ends of the mill to get it close to level.  I live just down the street from Krispy Kreme and need the extra exercise.  I'll readjust the mill with the next log and get things closer to level.  Also, I need to look at adding some levelling feet (like those on the Woodland Mills saws) to the end supports to make adjustments easier.
Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill, Logosol M8 Farmers Mill

runmca

I'm a new owner of a Peterson JP, had it for a couple of months now. I had to make some blade adjustments when it first arrived and it seems to be cutting well now. As I'm reading this thread I'm wondering how important squaring the frame is, should that be done first? I didn't even check that initially but as I'm looking at it now (it's not on the mill, currently in storage on the wheels) it looks like it may be off. Should I make sure it's square when it's on the rails and then make the blade adjustments if necessary?

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