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Author Topic: This Dang Peterson  (Read 4299 times)

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Offline Larry

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2017, 08:57:42 pm »
Have you checked with a local sharpening shop?  The guy I use has a computer controlled machine he got from Germany but he said its common in most professional shops.  I watched as he programmed in parameters to sharpen a blade.  For uncommon blades they still have a manual machine.  I just picked up a 14 40 tooth table saw blade  that they replaced 7 tips and sharpened.  All for $30.
Larry

Nine out of ten trees recommend wood for your building project.

Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2017, 12:56:52 am »
I have only had my WPF 10 for a few months,  but I have wondered about something recently that is not covered in the manual, and I wonder if it has any thing to do with the original posters question:

My mill has the Hi-low feature, where the saw head carriage rides on a high rail on 1 side that allows logs to more easily be rolled into working position.

On the low side, the supporting rail (or track) fits right into each crossmember (or skid, per the manual), with no adjustment, other than leveling each crossmember side to side as a final step.  The instructions address the importance of this leveling, especially important to double cutting, I would think.

On the high side the 3 supporting uprights that support the high rail are adjustable as to actual height inside the pockets of the skids, because they are secured in the skids at the chosen height with T knob screws and can be set within a certain range as to height, several inches of range, at least.

Unless I'm missing something, the Peterson instructions make no mention of the height setting of the high rail/track.  They only address front to back leveling, of both the high & low rails.

Somehow my saw head as far as I can tell is almost exactly level side to side, but I'm not sure how it wound up that way.  Coincidence?

 I have experience some of the difficulties that the original poster cites.  Best I can tell, I need to go through the four adjustments detailed by Peterson, and ad noted by a prior poster above.

 Do any Peterson owners think that the absolute height of the high side rail/track makes a difference?  I had a lot of difficulty getting the saw carriage installed onto the rails initially.  I attributed most of this to our very sloping site for setting up the mill--leveling our right side rail, the lower rail, was a big chore requiring lots of shimming.

My tiny little bit of engineering intuition tells me that high side height, not just the front to back leveling, must make a difference.  It is not addressed in the set up instructions supplied by Peterson.

Maybe the same thing applies to Lucas, except that both its rails ride up and down on its supporting posts, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

 The topic must seem foreign to band mill owners, with a lot of the concerns we have based on the separation of what holds the log and the sawmill head,  which goes to their versatility and usefulness/portability.
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Offline Ianab

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2017, 06:12:34 am »
In my experience the 2 rails do not need to be perfectly level. They need to be perfectly parallel, but if one is an inch or 2 higher or lower because of the terrain, it makes no real difference. The cuts aren't referenced from the bunks or the ground, they are referenced from the last cut. If that was at a 2 angle, the vertical cut will also be moved by a matching 2 and will intersect the same. The log will be cut off straight, just at a that 2 angle. The next layer will be the same, and everything will stay square. Even double cutting, the blade is still at that same angle, and matching the top side of the board.

Obviously you can't run the mill on a crazy angle because it won't stay on the tracks properly, but the actual height of the 2 rails isn't critical, which is probably why the manual doesn't worry about it.

But yes getting the carriage on the rails on uneven ground can be a hassle as the mill's transport wheels can end up in a hollow, and you can't get the rollers high enough to move over the rails. This problem goes away once you get a good pile of sawdust around the mill site.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Savannahdan

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 08:02:22 am »
I work the adjustments for the Lucas mill simply by first getting the rails/tracks parallel to each other, next I get the center (pith) of each end of the log the same distance to one of the rails/tracks, and then I get the logs center (pith) and carriage the same distance on each end of the log.  These may require either adjusting the log on the bunks/ground to the mill or the mill to the log. I periodically check the parallel of the rails/tracks.  Just the other day I had the mill at a severe angle front to back which meant that I had to push or pull the carriage quite a bit.  Frankly I got in a rush to get a big red oak cut and didn't want to dig holes in the yard or spend more time raising or lowering ends of the mill to get it close to level.  I live just down the street from Krispy Kreme and need the extra exercise.  I'll readjust the mill with the next log and get things closer to level.  Also, I need to look at adding some levelling feet (like those on the Woodland Mills saws) to the end supports to make adjustments easier.
Lucas 10-30 Swingsaw Blade Mill, Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill

Offline runmca

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2017, 08:57:09 pm »
I'm a new owner of a Peterson JP, had it for a couple of months now. I had to make some blade adjustments when it first arrived and it seems to be cutting well now. As I'm reading this thread I'm wondering how important squaring the frame is, should that be done first? I didn't even check that initially but as I'm looking at it now (it's not on the mill, currently in storage on the wheels) it looks like it may be off. Should I make sure it's square when it's on the rails and then make the blade adjustments if necessary?
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2017, 11:06:11 pm »
 I think my brain is going to generate smoke trying to understand this.

It's important to level the skids, that's laid out clearly in the manual.  We had some trouble getting the rollers to fit to the rails/tracks on both sides at once.   My small torpedo level tells me the upper tracks (left) are just a smidge high, based on a slight rightward slant. [had to correct to 'rightward' from 'left'--my dyslexia getting in the way]

 I understand that the cuts are relative, if that is the right phrase.   I'm just expecting to get hit in the mental face with something going wrong as a result of that lack of level, however small this time. It could have been more.

 We're moving the mill to the farm to take care of some downed trees there, so we'll see how it goes when I set up there.
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
Always learning & questioning authority
Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?

Offline Ianab

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2017, 02:11:36 am »
This is a "rough n ready" setup from a couple of weeks back. Friends tractor couldn't lift this fat little Sheoak log on the forks, so we dragged it clear of the stump with a chain, then lifted each end in turn with the chain to slide some logs / log rounds under it to support the log off the ground. Then just set the mill up as best I could around it. It was slightly uphill, and from memory the right rail was a couple of inches low. I had no "bunks" as such, the butt end had a broken fence post to sit on, and the top was forked and had two other random chunks of firewood supporting it, different heights to try and line up the fork in the log as level as possible. I actually ended up with the pith pretty much centred, and had all the pith cracking in maybe 3x3" in the centre.



But what I did make SURE of was the rails were parallel. If one end is level, and you have a 2-3" difference at the other, you will have issues as the carriage will only run on 3 rollers, and rock around.

So there are some adjustments that DO matter. There are other's that aren't critical, or even very important. I've never used a level with my mill, align the rails by eye, and get bunks etc "close to level" and the mill will wok fine. Having the blade aligned properly with the carriage, correct lead, and the cut intersects meeting up, now those one DO matter. But as long as they are correct, where the rails and bunks sit? Not so important.

And I got some very nice quartersawn boards out of that rather ugly log.  ;D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 02:56:47 am »
 I'm sure that before this upcoming move is over with I will wish my mill head was as light as the Junior Peterson.
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
Always learning & questioning authority
Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
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Ford/Chevy/Porsche
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Offline Ianab

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2017, 03:26:26 am »
I'm sure that before this upcoming move is over with I will wish my mill head was as light as the Junior Peterson.

Yes, that does help because if the carriage is in a low spot you can actually manhandle it up onto the rails relatively easily. In an ideal world you can just wheel the carriage into place, and the rollers are an inch above the rails. Crank the carriage down, and the rollers land on the rails. But if the carriage is in a 2" hollow... yeah that's not quite so easy.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Savannahdan

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2017, 07:41:06 am »
About chocked on my coffee in reading these last 2.  I had to check on the Lucas site for the weight of the carriage for my mill.  It's almost 400lbs (176kg).  Doubt that very many are hoisted up on barrels or cribs to cut extremely large logs.  Since my mill is currently setup in my backyard I have to use a shop crane for lifting such things.  I use a tractor/farm jack, logrites and levers to make adjustments to logs.
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Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2017, 08:08:13 am »
I'm a new owner of a Peterson JP, had it for a couple of months now. I had to make some blade adjustments when it first arrived and it seems to be cutting well now. As I'm reading this thread I'm wondering how important squaring the frame is, should that be done first? I didn't even check that initially but as I'm looking at it now (it's not on the mill, currently in storage on the wheels) it looks like it may be off. Should I make sure it's square when it's on the rails and then make the blade adjustments if necessary?

Yes squaring the winch frame is important but it is flexible enough that you cant tell anything about the adjustment when sitting on the transport wheels.  All checks must be done on tracks that are parallel with each other and the power unit should be in the middle of it's travel, then measure as discribed in the manual.  Cutting well is the final say in any mill adjusting and for me means DONT MESS WITH IT!! as I am capable of over thinking the situation and screwing things up.
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Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2017, 08:09:49 am »
I'm sure that before this upcoming move is over with I will wish my mill head was as light as the Junior Peterson.

They are still selling them,,  ;D ;D
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Online Don P

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2017, 08:14:07 am »
We needed to cut wide boards so my sawing partner welded up a swingset that we put at one end of the Lucas a month or so ago, the beam of the swingset over the center of the carriage when the mill is out on the extensions. There is a small ATV winch mounted midpoint on the beam and then a 4 cable harness on the millhead itself that the winch can grab. We needed to be able to quickly spin the mill head around to make double width passes, 12" wide boards. It now takes less than a minute to hoist, spin, set down and go back the other way. That rig could also be used for setup.

When setting up the mill we try for level side to side but that can be relative. End to end it can be climbing quite a hill. If you can sight across the rails and down the rails (put straight boards across the rails as winding sticks) and see no twist in either direction it should make good lumber. You will be able to use the most rail length if you measure and crosscheck the diagonals when setting up the rails.

We've got roller tables set up with bunks on top for what we are doing now, leveled side to side and straight end to end. The mill is level side to side and straight but heading downhill end to end. We have 40' of roller table through the mill and are cutting material longer than the rails/extensions. When we set up it is roughly pith centered. The rails are not parallel to the roller table, they are parallel to the pith.  We then continue to roll the log in to finish the cut. To maintain that slope as we set up to finish the cut each end must rise or drop the same amount.

I've been bumfuzzled before and just tore down and set back up again to try to take a slack step in setup out of the equation.

Offline runmca

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2017, 09:36:16 am »
I'm a new owner of a Peterson JP, had it for a couple of months now. I had to make some blade adjustments when it first arrived and it seems to be cutting well now. As I'm reading this thread I'm wondering how important squaring the frame is, should that be done first? I didn't even check that initially but as I'm looking at it now (it's not on the mill, currently in storage on the wheels) it looks like it may be off. Should I make sure it's square when it's on the rails and then make the blade adjustments if necessary?

Yes squaring the winch frame is important but it is flexible enough that you cant tell anything about the adjustment when sitting on the transport wheels.  All checks must be done on tracks that are parallel with each other and the power unit should be in the middle of it's travel, then measure as discribed in the manual.  Cutting well is the final say in any mill adjusting and for me means DONT MESS WITH IT!! as I am capable of over thinking the situation and screwing things up.

Thanks ButchC, I'll take a closer look when it's on the rails. I agree, even if it's off a bit I may leave it alone for now. I have a nice hard maple to cut next and don't want to waste any to make adjustments.
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Offline Qweaver

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Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2017, 01:55:38 pm »
I worked for days making sure that all of the settings were right on my WPF10.   Today I ground a little more  relief on the tips (not much) and now I can make 2ea 5" horz. cuts and the 2" vert. release cut is OK.  Still not easy to push but doable.  This is a very dense red oak log. The chart in the tool box says a 2x10x20' red oak should weigh over 170 lb.  I think it is more. It's all two of us can do to lift it.  I will make sure the blade is sharp and get this job done.   The saw or my technique still need something but it will be good enough to get this job done!  Also one of the c/s screws that hold the blade on would not back out and I had to drill it out.  Where do I get one of those puppies.  Tractor supply is my only chance in Weston WV.  I never seized them this time.
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Online terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2017, 02:25:16 pm »
I would get them from Left coast supplies who has Peterson parts.  You can also probably pick them out here if you determine the size, they are metric.  https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-flat-head-screws/=19xujbz 
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Offline Savannahdan

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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2017, 06:59:14 pm »
Glad to hear you have it going and cutting wood successfully.  Yes, oak is very heavy.  I bought some of the blade bolts off of ebay.  I made sure they are Grade 12.9.  Lucas recommends tightening the bolts somewhat tightly and real tight for the nuts on the backside of the hub.  I have a hex head socket which makes removal of the bolts easier.
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Offline Qweaver

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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 11:53:48 am »
I also have a 5 mm hex head socket.  Actually broke it with my torque wrench trying to get this bolt out.  Ground it back straight and then stripped the bolt using a breaker bar.  But the head drilled out and backed out  OK.   
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Offline Savannahdan

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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 12:25:15 pm »
Get some of the BlueCreeper.  It made for just situations.
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Offline Qweaver

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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 05:18:50 pm »
Good news is not perfect news.  I am able to cut 2x10s by making 3 horz. cuts and a slow vert. release cut.  This is still not cutting right but I can do it to finish this job.  I will not take another job until I get this saw cutting right.  This is a dense red oak but no one at Peterson has said that the saw should saw this bad/hard.
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D