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Author Topic: This Dang Peterson  (Read 4298 times)

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Offline Qweaver

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This Dang Peterson
« on: October 13, 2017, 01:25:29 pm »
I have worked for three days trying to get this WPF 10 to saw correctly.  I have gone thru the setup according to the manual and video.  Re-tipped the blades.  I'm at my wits end.  I would gladly pay someone  $500 plus transport to come and make this saw cut as it should.  As I was re-tipping the blade I noticed that the tips appeared to have very little relief.  The manual does not address this but I am considering grinding a little more back angle on the tips and see if that helps.  I've got a huge red oak to saw and I can just not do it under the current setup.  BTW this saw has always been difficult to work. Always. I know it must be something that I am doing wrong---but dang if I can figure out what?

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline scsmith42

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 02:54:39 pm »
Quinton, I'll give you a call one evening soon.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
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Offline drobertson

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 02:56:30 pm »
Hold tight, I'm sure so help is on the way, either by post,, hope so for the rest of us, or by a pm,, peterson and lucas are very similar and there are a few users here,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 02:58:21 pm »
Something is seriously wrong because sawing good lumber quickly on mine is as easy as falling down and it's  the first mill I have ever run. Certainly no expert here but might help if we knew what is is doing wrong other than "not sawing correctly" that's a pretty broad statement.  Can you post pictures of the blade tips so  I can compare them to my new blade?
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 03:09:29 pm »
Quinton, here is how the tips look on two of my blades.



  [/img]


 

 
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
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and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline Savannahdan

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 05:06:20 pm »
I feel for you.  I've been trying to get some logs cut and have been fighting rainy weather.  I also had the gremlin climb onboard my mill and moved the brake lever while I was half way through an oak log.  Thought the system had gone totally bad on me.  On one hand it's something sort of simple but on the other it sure messes with your cutting.  I'm sure there's someone close to you that can help.  If the wife didn't have some health issues I'd offer to work with you to resolve the problem(s).  Good luck.
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Offline Qweaver

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 05:22:01 pm »
Hey Scott, sorry about the mis-name.  Many years(and old age) dull the memory.  As I suspected when I grinded a little more relief on the tips the saw began cutting much better.  Thanks for the pics.  I have the saw set up as close to the manual as I can get.  Crosshatch and lean in are near perfect and I think it is cutting well enough to do this big oak now...not perfect but pretty good.  Still harder to push than the saw I saw working in Pa. this summer.   I have not been using water while doing this setup but will use in on the oak job.  Do you have my number?
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline shenandoahsawmill

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 05:42:47 pm »
Quinton; Where are you located? I am near Winchester, Va. and might be able to help if you are not more than a couple hrs. drive. I ran a Peterson WPF for a few years and came up with a sharpener that works better than OEM. Gary

Offline Qweaver

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 07:25:39 pm »
Hi Gary, we are about 3 hours from  Winchester, Va.  I'd sure be interested in better sharpener and help with my mill.
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline shenandoahsawmill

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 09:24:18 pm »
Quinton; Call me if you want to talk over  details. 540-686-0351 Gary

Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 10:12:40 pm »
 Peterson sent me something about a new sharpener they have, though it looks similar to the old one.

Have you checked level front to back (and of course side to side)?  Sometimes a tiny little bit of difference can make a big difference in pushing effort, in particular.

 I would also make sure that the brake on the top left is not getting in the way, I've had it intrude unexpectedly.

My recollection is that finer looking sawdust is an indication of blade issues,  with kind of long stringy looking "sawdust" being the best indication of a correctly sharpened blade.

My experience is not extensive, newer owner here, so I'm probably not the best person to advise you,  but I'm a quick study, so I'll help where I can.

Keep the dialogue going and let's see if collectively we can help further-- I'll be looking out for what I can learn as well.

 The Peterson folks have a toll-free number (figure in the time difference) , and Left Coast may be able to help as well.
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
Always learning & questioning authority
Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?

Offline firefighter

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 11:07:30 pm »
Hi Gary I have a 2009 WPF model .I would also be interested in the sharpener you are talking about could you send me some info on it thanks .Qweaver I was not sharpening the whole tip properly and Chris Brown showed me how to do it the proper way . Give Aaron Kalan a shout on there 1-800 number and he will help you out .

Online barbender

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 01:16:05 am »
A friend has a shop built swing mill, I've seen him have problems sawing when the blade lead was not set correctly.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 06:19:07 am »
Quint, first thing I would try is a different saw. When theirs a problem with any circular mill the saw and its tension is always suspect, with lead close behind. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 06:39:11 am »
Glad the see you are figuring it out. I have a sheet somewhere with the sharpening specs for my blades but unsure if they are the same for my smaller mill? 

A few years ago I spent a lot of time in your neck of the woods when they built the 4 lane between Buckhannon and Elkins, cooridoor H I think it is called?, we crused the rock. I'd drive down but don't think I have enough experience to be of much help.
 .
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Offline dgdrls

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 07:18:01 am »
Q' 

I'm unclear what your challenge with the mill is,
Sounds like you have the adjustments dialed-in.
is it making bad lumber? 

I suspect the Peterson and Lucas share a very similar tooth spec.
Here is what I have in my manual if its any help.

FWIW I would be very conservative on adding more back-angle,
you will be taking strength out of the cutting face of the tooth

keep us posted

Best
D

 

 



Online terrifictimbersllc

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 08:31:29 am »
The adjustments
-tops of rails are parallel to each other by sighting, sag is taken out by the track levelers in the center, mill rolls freely along length.  A level can help but sighting is more accurate. 
-chain lengths hang the mill frame the same everywhere (measure bottom of mill frame to the bottom SS cross members of the end frame at all 4 corners). If engine is at one end then this measurment will be 1/16 or so lower there than at the other end

Blade adjustments, Level the top of a log, then:

-horizontal lean-in, where the blade is tilted down to the right just a little, cut 2" in, then again another 8" in, the ridge from the 2" cut should be visible.

-horizontal criss-cross, the blade marks made by front of blade and back of blade are the same, adjust both nylon rollers the same accordingly

-vertical criss-cross, front of blade marks and back of blade marks are the same, AND, at your end of the log where the blade exits in a pulled vertical cut, the blade can re-enter exactly into this kerf.  Trust the latter more than the criss cross if they're different.  The adjustment is by turning the nuts on either side of the right roller on the head to which the handle is attached.  Removing the handle or turning these without remembering that this affects the adjustment has messed me up before. If the blade exits the log and won't reenter the same kerf there is also a "zinging" sound and there can also be difficulty pulling the saw in vertical cuts with it tending to want to go backwards. Adjust as necessary regardless of criss cross to get the reentry exact.

-vertical intersect adjusted by the stop bolts to get a perfect intersect

Stress in logs can make the above adjustments look off some times but most of cuts should be easy.

Of all these points the least obvious is chain lengths, chain can jump a link on sprocket if something blocks raising/lowering the frame when loading etc.

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline woodyone.john

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2017, 08:01:18 pm »
I think TT covered most of it but ,
Check the wheels the frame runs on,sawdust or a flat spot will cause quite a lot of resistance.Also if the small grooves are not on the right side the your alignment will be some ways off.Using it like that will result in loss of tension in the blade. As in all things ,small things matter.
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Online Don P

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2017, 08:32:55 am »
Just another thought to throw out there. With the discussion on log stress, I've had bowing logs cause all kinds of trouble too.

Offline Qweaver

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2017, 07:39:43 pm »
Quinton, here is how the tips look on two of my blades.


Thanks for the pics  Scott.  Your  blade looks like it has more front relief than mine and that may be the problem.  Also Peterson says the tip should have side relief and yours and mine do not look like they do.  My tips were bought from Peterson and should be right.  I got a diamond blade today and will do some work on the tips tomorrow. 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline Larry

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2017, 08:57:42 pm »
Have you checked with a local sharpening shop?  The guy I use has a computer controlled machine he got from Germany but he said its common in most professional shops.  I watched as he programmed in parameters to sharpen a blade.  For uncommon blades they still have a manual machine.  I just picked up a 14” 40 tooth table saw blade  that they replaced 7 tips and sharpened.  All for $30.
Larry

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Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2017, 12:56:52 am »
I have only had my WPF 10 for a few months,  but I have wondered about something recently that is not covered in the manual, and I wonder if it has any thing to do with the original posters question:

My mill has the Hi-low feature, where the saw head carriage rides on a high rail on 1 side that allows logs to more easily be rolled into working position.

On the low side, the supporting rail (or track) fits right into each crossmember (or skid, per the manual), with no adjustment, other than leveling each crossmember side to side as a final step.  The instructions address the importance of this leveling, especially important to double cutting, I would think.

On the high side the 3 supporting uprights that support the high rail are adjustable as to actual height inside the pockets of the skids, because they are secured in the skids at the chosen height with T knob screws and can be set within a certain range as to height, several inches of range, at least.

Unless I'm missing something, the Peterson instructions make no mention of the height setting of the high rail/track.  They only address front to back leveling, of both the high & low rails.

Somehow my saw head as far as I can tell is almost exactly level side to side, but I'm not sure how it wound up that way.  Coincidence?

 I have experience some of the difficulties that the original poster cites.  Best I can tell, I need to go through the four adjustments detailed by Peterson, and ad noted by a prior poster above.

 Do any Peterson owners think that the absolute height of the high side rail/track makes a difference?  I had a lot of difficulty getting the saw carriage installed onto the rails initially.  I attributed most of this to our very sloping site for setting up the mill--leveling our right side rail, the lower rail, was a big chore requiring lots of shimming.

My tiny little bit of engineering intuition tells me that high side height, not just the front to back leveling, must make a difference.  It is not addressed in the set up instructions supplied by Peterson.

Maybe the same thing applies to Lucas, except that both its rails ride up and down on its supporting posts, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

 The topic must seem foreign to band mill owners, with a lot of the concerns we have based on the separation of what holds the log and the sawmill head,  which goes to their versatility and usefulness/portability.
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
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Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?

Offline Ianab

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2017, 06:12:34 am »
In my experience the 2 rails do not need to be perfectly level. They need to be perfectly parallel, but if one is an inch or 2 higher or lower because of the terrain, it makes no real difference. The cuts aren't referenced from the bunks or the ground, they are referenced from the last cut. If that was at a 2° angle, the vertical cut will also be moved by a matching 2° and will intersect the same. The log will be cut off straight, just at a that 2° angle. The next layer will be the same, and everything will stay square. Even double cutting, the blade is still at that same angle, and matching the top side of the board.

Obviously you can't run the mill on a crazy angle because it won't stay on the tracks properly, but the actual height of the 2 rails isn't critical, which is probably why the manual doesn't worry about it.

But yes getting the carriage on the rails on uneven ground can be a hassle as the mill's transport wheels can end up in a hollow, and you can't get the rollers high enough to move over the rails. This problem goes away once you get a good pile of sawdust around the mill site.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Savannahdan

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 08:02:22 am »
I work the adjustments for the Lucas mill simply by first getting the rails/tracks parallel to each other, next I get the center (pith) of each end of the log the same distance to one of the rails/tracks, and then I get the logs center (pith) and carriage the same distance on each end of the log.  These may require either adjusting the log on the bunks/ground to the mill or the mill to the log. I periodically check the parallel of the rails/tracks.  Just the other day I had the mill at a severe angle front to back which meant that I had to push or pull the carriage quite a bit.  Frankly I got in a rush to get a big red oak cut and didn't want to dig holes in the yard or spend more time raising or lowering ends of the mill to get it close to level.  I live just down the street from Krispy Kreme and need the extra exercise.  I'll readjust the mill with the next log and get things closer to level.  Also, I need to look at adding some levelling feet (like those on the Woodland Mills saws) to the end supports to make adjustments easier.
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Offline runmca

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2017, 08:57:09 pm »
I'm a new owner of a Peterson JP, had it for a couple of months now. I had to make some blade adjustments when it first arrived and it seems to be cutting well now. As I'm reading this thread I'm wondering how important squaring the frame is, should that be done first? I didn't even check that initially but as I'm looking at it now (it's not on the mill, currently in storage on the wheels) it looks like it may be off. Should I make sure it's square when it's on the rails and then make the blade adjustments if necessary?
2017 Peterson JP swingblade mill

Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2017, 11:06:11 pm »
 I think my brain is going to generate smoke trying to understand this.

It's important to level the skids, that's laid out clearly in the manual.  We had some trouble getting the rollers to fit to the rails/tracks on both sides at once.   My small torpedo level tells me the upper tracks (left) are just a smidge high, based on a slight rightward slant. [had to correct to 'rightward' from 'left'--my dyslexia getting in the way]

 I understand that the cuts are relative, if that is the right phrase.   I'm just expecting to get hit in the mental face with something going wrong as a result of that lack of level, however small this time. It could have been more.

 We're moving the mill to the farm to take care of some downed trees there, so we'll see how it goes when I set up there.
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
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Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?

Offline Ianab

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2017, 02:11:36 am »
This is a "rough n ready" setup from a couple of weeks back. Friends tractor couldn't lift this fat little Sheoak log on the forks, so we dragged it clear of the stump with a chain, then lifted each end in turn with the chain to slide some logs / log rounds under it to support the log off the ground. Then just set the mill up as best I could around it. It was slightly uphill, and from memory the right rail was a couple of inches low. I had no "bunks" as such, the butt end had a broken fence post to sit on, and the top was forked and had two other random chunks of firewood supporting it, different heights to try and line up the fork in the log as level as possible. I actually ended up with the pith pretty much centred, and had all the pith cracking in maybe 3x3" in the centre.



But what I did make SURE of was the rails were parallel. If one end is level, and you have a 2-3" difference at the other, you will have issues as the carriage will only run on 3 rollers, and rock around.

So there are some adjustments that DO matter. There are other's that aren't critical, or even very important. I've never used a level with my mill, align the rails by eye, and get bunks etc "close to level" and the mill will wok fine. Having the blade aligned properly with the carriage, correct lead, and the cut intersects meeting up, now those one DO matter. But as long as they are correct, where the rails and bunks sit? Not so important.

And I got some very nice quartersawn boards out of that rather ugly log.  ;D
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 02:56:47 am »
 I'm sure that before this upcoming move is over with I will wish my mill head was as light as the Junior Peterson.
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
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Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
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Did I mention, a very small bank account?

Offline Ianab

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2017, 03:26:26 am »
I'm sure that before this upcoming move is over with I will wish my mill head was as light as the Junior Peterson.

Yes, that does help because if the carriage is in a low spot you can actually manhandle it up onto the rails relatively easily. In an ideal world you can just wheel the carriage into place, and the rollers are an inch above the rails. Crank the carriage down, and the rollers land on the rails. But if the carriage is in a 2" hollow... yeah that's not quite so easy.
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Offline Savannahdan

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2017, 07:41:06 am »
About chocked on my coffee in reading these last 2.  I had to check on the Lucas site for the weight of the carriage for my mill.  It's almost 400lbs (176kg).  Doubt that very many are hoisted up on barrels or cribs to cut extremely large logs.  Since my mill is currently setup in my backyard I have to use a shop crane for lifting such things.  I use a tractor/farm jack, logrites and levers to make adjustments to logs.
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Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2017, 08:08:13 am »
I'm a new owner of a Peterson JP, had it for a couple of months now. I had to make some blade adjustments when it first arrived and it seems to be cutting well now. As I'm reading this thread I'm wondering how important squaring the frame is, should that be done first? I didn't even check that initially but as I'm looking at it now (it's not on the mill, currently in storage on the wheels) it looks like it may be off. Should I make sure it's square when it's on the rails and then make the blade adjustments if necessary?

Yes squaring the winch frame is important but it is flexible enough that you cant tell anything about the adjustment when sitting on the transport wheels.  All checks must be done on tracks that are parallel with each other and the power unit should be in the middle of it's travel, then measure as discribed in the manual.  Cutting well is the final say in any mill adjusting and for me means DONT MESS WITH IT!! as I am capable of over thinking the situation and screwing things up.
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Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2017, 08:09:49 am »
I'm sure that before this upcoming move is over with I will wish my mill head was as light as the Junior Peterson.

They are still selling them,,  ;D ;D
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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2017, 08:14:07 am »
We needed to cut wide boards so my sawing partner welded up a swingset that we put at one end of the Lucas a month or so ago, the beam of the swingset over the center of the carriage when the mill is out on the extensions. There is a small ATV winch mounted midpoint on the beam and then a 4 cable harness on the millhead itself that the winch can grab. We needed to be able to quickly spin the mill head around to make double width passes, 12" wide boards. It now takes less than a minute to hoist, spin, set down and go back the other way. That rig could also be used for setup.

When setting up the mill we try for level side to side but that can be relative. End to end it can be climbing quite a hill. If you can sight across the rails and down the rails (put straight boards across the rails as winding sticks) and see no twist in either direction it should make good lumber. You will be able to use the most rail length if you measure and crosscheck the diagonals when setting up the rails.

We've got roller tables set up with bunks on top for what we are doing now, leveled side to side and straight end to end. The mill is level side to side and straight but heading downhill end to end. We have 40' of roller table through the mill and are cutting material longer than the rails/extensions. When we set up it is roughly pith centered. The rails are not parallel to the roller table, they are parallel to the pith.  We then continue to roll the log in to finish the cut. To maintain that slope as we set up to finish the cut each end must rise or drop the same amount.

I've been bumfuzzled before and just tore down and set back up again to try to take a slack step in setup out of the equation.

Offline runmca

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2017, 09:36:16 am »
I'm a new owner of a Peterson JP, had it for a couple of months now. I had to make some blade adjustments when it first arrived and it seems to be cutting well now. As I'm reading this thread I'm wondering how important squaring the frame is, should that be done first? I didn't even check that initially but as I'm looking at it now (it's not on the mill, currently in storage on the wheels) it looks like it may be off. Should I make sure it's square when it's on the rails and then make the blade adjustments if necessary?

Yes squaring the winch frame is important but it is flexible enough that you cant tell anything about the adjustment when sitting on the transport wheels.  All checks must be done on tracks that are parallel with each other and the power unit should be in the middle of it's travel, then measure as discribed in the manual.  Cutting well is the final say in any mill adjusting and for me means DONT MESS WITH IT!! as I am capable of over thinking the situation and screwing things up.

Thanks ButchC, I'll take a closer look when it's on the rails. I agree, even if it's off a bit I may leave it alone for now. I have a nice hard maple to cut next and don't want to waste any to make adjustments.
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Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2017, 01:55:38 pm »
I worked for days making sure that all of the settings were right on my WPF10.   Today I ground a little more  relief on the tips (not much) and now I can make 2ea 5" horz. cuts and the 2" vert. release cut is OK.  Still not easy to push but doable.  This is a very dense red oak log. The chart in the tool box says a 2x10x20' red oak should weigh over 170 lb.  I think it is more. It's all two of us can do to lift it.  I will make sure the blade is sharp and get this job done.   The saw or my technique still need something but it will be good enough to get this job done!  Also one of the c/s screws that hold the blade on would not back out and I had to drill it out.  Where do I get one of those puppies.  Tractor supply is my only chance in Weston WV.  I never seized them this time.
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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2017, 02:25:16 pm »
I would get them from Left coast supplies who has Peterson parts.  You can also probably pick them out here if you determine the size, they are metric.  https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-flat-head-screws/=19xujbz 
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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2017, 06:59:14 pm »
Glad to hear you have it going and cutting wood successfully.  Yes, oak is very heavy.  I bought some of the blade bolts off of ebay.  I made sure they are Grade 12.9.  Lucas recommends tightening the bolts somewhat tightly and real tight for the nuts on the backside of the hub.  I have a hex head socket which makes removal of the bolts easier.
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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 11:53:48 am »
I also have a 5 mm hex head socket.  Actually broke it with my torque wrench trying to get this bolt out.  Ground it back straight and then stripped the bolt using a breaker bar.  But the head drilled out and backed out  OK.   
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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 12:25:15 pm »
Get some of the BlueCreeper.  It made for just situations.
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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 05:18:50 pm »
Good news is not perfect news.  I am able to cut 2x10s by making 3 horz. cuts and a slow vert. release cut.  This is still not cutting right but I can do it to finish this job.  I will not take another job until I get this saw cutting right.  This is a dense red oak but no one at Peterson has said that the saw should saw this bad/hard.
Quinton
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2017, 05:56:56 pm »
Swingblades in generally handle even very hard woods pretty well. Some of the Aussie hardwoods make Oak look like a softwood. So there certainly certainly something not right, probably with the blade still?

Its often quicker and easier to make full width horizontal cuts in 2 passes, needing to do three tells me something isn't right. But the 2" vertical, you should be able to blast through that with ease.

I've been sawing Sheoak (Australian Pine) lately, and that's up there with Live Oak  / Mesquite etc for hardness and density. OK, I notice it's harder and have to cut a bit slower, but nothing that's a problem.
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Re: Cranky Peterson, good news at last!
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2017, 06:15:57 pm »
Ianab, I have done everything that the manual and Peterson techs ask for.  I really think that my re-tip job is good.  I would be willing to buy a new blade but none are currently available in the US.  I would gladly pay someone that could make the saw cut correctly.  I'm about to give up!
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Offline runmca

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2017, 08:56:06 pm »
Quinton, how's the belt tension? Are you finding that the blade will come to a stop if you push too hard/fast?
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Offline dgdrls

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2017, 09:24:09 pm »
One thought,  what does the saw "dust" look like?  dust or stringy?

For the blade bolts I had the same issue and drilled the heads off.
get a full set of bolts and nuts,  they are handy to have around.
Remember you don't have to crank them down. 
A little Lock-tite is ok on just the nut

you'll get it

best
D

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 03:48:57 am »
In my limited experience so far, it takes some effort to push wide horizontally, and my mill is ever so slightly going uphill for that.  Pulling back through a 2 inch vertical cut seems like nothing.

That's the hard way.  The easy way is to cut vertically, then come back and push horizontally on the short dimension.  Like I said, I'm still learning.

Something's got to be wrong, unless you've spent too much time pushing through cedar or some other softwoods w/ a bandsaw  smiley_greg_walking_stilts

 All I've cut so far is some dry white oak; logs had been sitting around for a long time.  Moving the mill on Friday, more experience coming.

I did a demo of a manual Norwood HD 36 (band saw)on poplar & cedar, and it was pushable with one finger.

No blades available in the US, bad manufacturer, bad manufacturer!  Or bad Left Coast for not ordering enough?
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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2017, 07:07:11 am »
Sounds like your running neg. rake. Pos. rake will pull you in.
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Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2017, 07:42:16 am »
  The easy way is to cut vertically, then come back and push horizontally on the short dimension.  Like I said, I'm still learning.

Something's got to be wrong, unless you've spent too much time pushing through cedar or some other softwoods w/ a bandsaw  smiley_greg_walking_stilts



 My mill also operates with very little effort but it is also a lot less mill being a JP.  In the end I think he will find he has a blade problem.

 Your operating method mirrors mine. I am nearly always operating the mill by myself thus no matter which cut is the large one I run the vertical cut first first horizontal cut last. That way I can grab the lumber and stack it without having to walk around the saw head, saves a LOT of steps and at the end of the day ups production considerably. Even  on the rare occasion I have a helper I still run it that way due to formed  habits even though it makes things a bit harder for the off bearer.
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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2017, 08:40:01 am »
If this has all been on one log I'd wait till you get some different logs through the setup. If it is still not working I like Kbeitz's idea. Check what you are actually getting from the sharpener... hmm make sure it is good and square too, and then maybe start increasing the hook angle.

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2017, 10:01:11 pm »
Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules here and if I am please ignore/delete this post.

If you're willing to send the blade to me up here in Canada, I'll make sure that it's setup properly.  You just need to cover shipping both ways.

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2017, 10:55:19 pm »
If it will help, also, and the member writing from Ontario just made a very nice offer  that might be your best bet, I will be glad to send you any closeup photography of my unused freshly tipped blades that you think might help.

One thing I haven't seen discussed is blade "tension".  I know just enough about it to ask questions, but if I understand correctly, it could influence the pulling or pushing force.  My recollection is that overheating of the blade can upset tension.  Let me leave a more thorough explanation to the experienced guys on here, but it might help to know more about it.
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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2017, 05:44:14 pm »
Odds are the tension is out and will need to be fixed.  MbfVA, could you post a few pictures of your new blades?  A close up of the top and side would be nice.

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2017, 08:54:56 pm »
 Will do as on as possible, by the weekend.   I may be able to add more insight after using the mill tomorrow with some friends.
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Peterson woes getting better
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2017, 08:13:49 pm »
A little more tip relief and a well sharpened blade has made the horz. cuts some easier but I still have to make 3 passes to get a full 10" cut. My friend Scott suggested that track miss alignment may be a factor in the vert. 2 inch cut problem.  When we finished the big oak today I was finally able to check this and there was a 3/4"  difference  at the mid point of the track.  I've always thought that it needed a mid point cross member for that 24' span.  I'll make one tomorrow.  Pastor Sarah gives me some stern looks when I work on Sunday but this log has got to get done. 
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Re: Peterson woes getting better
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2017, 08:40:10 am »
Qweaver,

what Peterson are you operating, WPF?
  Have you sawn another log with the same set-up?

the challenges you're still having  with he adjustments you have made
just don't add up to me.   

Are you certain you just didn't get a really tough log?
the track deflection, is that along the length of the beam?

D


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Re: Peterson woes getting better
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2017, 09:57:04 am »
I currently don't have the middle support on the left track for my mill.  That's because I have a couple of large logs blocking proper installation of the support.  When I run into this situation and it is a cutting problem I can just move the end supports inward.  But, for regular use I like having the middle support installed in the system.
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Re: Peterson woes getting better
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2017, 10:07:40 am »
Hi DG  My mill is a wpf 10 and I did saw a 30" Ash recently and a 48" Red Oak last summer and all sawed hard. So the problem is not new.  I'll correct the beam deflection and start on another large oak this AM.  It is a really tough log but the saw should handle that.  The track is dead level on a concrete slab.  The deflection takes the wide roller on the left side from outside to inside limit as it rolls down the rails.  I will fab another cross brace to fix that.  I note that the sawn 2x10x 20' boards are quite a bit more heavy than the chart shows---so it is a dense log.

Quinton
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Re: Peterson woes getting better
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2017, 10:15:41 am »
My mill only came with 2 supports/cross braces even tho' I ordered one short extension.  I made up a wood cross brace for the end of these but I will make a metal 2x2 for the center of the long span rails.
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Re: Peterson woes getting better
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2017, 08:21:57 am »
Hi DG  My mill is a wpf 10 and I did saw a 30" Ash recently and a 48" Red Oak last summer and all sawed hard. So the problem is not new.  I'll correct the beam deflection and start on another large oak this AM. It is a really tough log but the saw should handle that.  The track is dead level on a concrete slab.  The deflection takes the wide roller on the left side from outside to inside limit as it rolls down the rails.  I will fab another cross brace to fix that.  I note that the sawn 2x10x 20' boards are quite a bit more heavy than the chart shows---so it is a dense log.

Quinton

How did it go?   

D

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Re: Peterson woes getting better
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2017, 02:09:06 pm »
The return 2" cut was definitely easier .  But I still have a fundamental problem with the setup.  Now that the log is out of the way  I will make sure all of the frame settings are. right then put a log on and finish testing
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Offline Grandedog

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2017, 06:05:24 pm »
In my limited experience so far, it takes some effort to push wide horizontally, and my mill is ever so slightly going uphill for that.  Pulling back through a 2 inch vertical cut seems like nothing.

That's the hard way.  The easy way is to cut vertically, then come back and push horizontally on the short dimension.  Like I said, I'm still learning.

Something's got to be wrong, unless you've spent too much time pushing through cedar or some other softwoods w/ a bandsaw  smiley_greg_walking_stilts

 All I've cut so far is some dry white oak; logs had been sitting around for a long time.  Moving the mill on Friday, more experience coming.

I did a demo of a manual Norwood HD 36 (band saw)on poplar & cedar, and it was pushable with one finger.

No blades available in the US, bad manufacturer, bad manufacturer!  Or bad Left Coast for not ordering enough?
      Howdy,
   That was pretty much my fault. We were able to almost cut the price of replacement blades in half compared to what they cost coming from New Zealand. It way overheated the sales, and blew the projections out of the water. We have some blades coming out of production next week. I might be able to have one drop shipped direct if you.
Regards
Gregg
P.S. When your making the several passes on the 10" horizontal cut, do you get a step in the wood on every pass?
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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2017, 07:49:23 pm »
 Thanks for the response Greg. I remember something about a new source for blades, may have talked to you when I was in the buying process.

The person who started this thread is the one who needs a blade.

I'm still learning, but I do know the drill about multiple passes.   I am also mindful of seller Barry's advice to do the vertical cut as the deeper dimension and the horizontal cut short dimension where possible.  I am also practicing using wedges to avoid kerf choke, something else Barry showed me.

 I think I also remember him telling me that that is best for cutting quartersawn boards, too.  Geometry-wise, that seems to make sense anyway.

I moved the machine to our farm on Friday.  New spot, very thick grassy level ground. The big problem we think we had was that the supports mooshed into the ground as the saw carriage passed each support, particularly in the middle.  The blade then appeared to dig in and then refused to move forward, abruptly without any warning and oddly, without the motor slowing down.  I believe it was due to a squatting of the rails since it seemed to happen near the middle.

I have not been back out to work on correcting that yet, by increasing the weight of the flat pavers underneath each support, to better flatten out the grass.  More to report once I try that.

My seller gave me two new condition blades, either new or freshly retipped, still have the protective green gooey stuff on them.

 I still have lots to learn.  I'll try to do a separate post on the experience of moving the machine.  It was an adventure. Don't try it with a Ford truck-- The carriage will not wheel barrel into it like it's supposed to, the lift is too dang high. More on that in a separate post.

 Time for dinner.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2017, 11:56:35 pm »
here are some photos taken inside of an unused by me either retipped or new blade that my seller gave me:

[If you need others, I can do more--I'll keep this blade inside for a while for that eventuality; if the resolution is not high enough, I'll find another way to get you a higher resolution photo or photos]

 

  

  

  

 
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Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
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Ford/Chevy/Porsche
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Online Don P

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2017, 07:32:12 am »
Judging from the braze quality, scratching on the plate and the polish on the edges of the gullet I'd say that is a retip. Most saw shops dip the tips to protect them.

One more to throw out there, I'm wondering if when that rounded edge on the gullet gets to a point of wear does it stop clearing the kerf and instead begin allowing dust to spill around the blade causing higher feed force, heat, etc. When I was sharpening molder knives one of the sharpening wheel styles we would buy was a gumming wheel normally used for dressing the gullets square. I'm wondering if they need dressing periodically on these saws.

Offline ButchC

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2017, 07:51:11 am »
Don,  I agree that's a re-tipped blade in the pics. I hadn't thought of that but a rounded gullet would have to  be less efficient at doing it's job.  I have log #25 on the bunks and still on the original blade, been lucky and hit no embedded objects and have clean logs that havent been skidded.  The tips are just about down to the point of needing a retip job, I am going to check the gullets this evening.
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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2017, 02:19:32 pm »
     Howdy,
   It's hard to tell from the photos but, one thing that's very important is the Tangential angle. The trailing edge of the tooth has to be narrower than the leading edge.
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Offline Bradm

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2017, 04:30:08 pm »
That's a retip.  Judging by how the shoulder has been ground, I'm curious as to how close the current diameter of the blade is compared to a new blade.

As to the rounded corners of the gullet, yep they do get dull and should be gummed out periodically.  I like to do it when replacing tips.

Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2017, 05:27:50 pm »
 To wake up this thread with something slightly new, do any of the Peterson owners on here think this Bosch product would work to provide a laser cut line?

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-LS010-Miter-Laser-Washer/dp/B004GH6YYO

 One thing that comes to mind is that the saw blade on our Petersons is not attached with an center arbor, it has multiple screws/bolts ringing the center.   My machine is at the farm, so I can't go out and look at it immediately.
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Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
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Offline Ianab

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2017, 06:44:11 pm »
Nothing protrudes from the lower surface of the blade. Reason is that when you are cutting large logs the blade is skimming the top of the log with every cut. If you mounted that on the arbour, as soon as you got 10" into the log it would foul on the log, and you stop.

I have thought a vertical beam mounted on the frame above / in front of the blade would be handy. Set it to line up where the blade is going to track in the vertical cut. This would make that first cut of each horizontal layer easier to set up exactly, accounting for curve / taper etc, because you could see exactly where you are going to cut all the way down the log.

A vertical line would only really be any use for the first opening cuts on top of the log. That's a one off setup for each log, so I don't see any big advantage there.

But the vertical sight down the log I could see being handy, especuially with irregular logs.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2017, 08:14:35 pm »
 You and I do love our irregular logs, don't we, Ian  8)

I had a feeling what sounded like a great idea would get nixed.  I will say that the Bosch site showed a lot of variation in what people thought of it.
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Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?

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Re: This Dang Peterson, vertical sizing switch?
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2017, 03:41:24 am »
 While we're on the subject of Peterson WPF, can anyone recommend a remote pendant type "vertical sizing" switch, up & down, like the one that used to be on the WPF?  I asked why they changed, and was told reliability, but I would rather have one that I can operate easily without having to reach way over to the engine each time.

Vertical sizing (setting the blade height) is rather tricky with this machine, requiring a fair amount of bumping the switch back-and-forth, all the while trying to figure out what's going on with the blade underneath, lining up for that first cut; at least it only has to be done once, but I still have to rock the switch back-and-forth to get in each change in height with any precision.

My hat is off to you Lucas owners; having to operate 2 manual winches to change the ht would drive me nuts.  Using an electric drill  hanging off a very expensive saw mill to change the height on the Turbosaw is another thing entirely.

The OEM switch now in use is a small rubber covered rocker switch mounted requiring a rather fer reach.  It is off in the center, spring loaded to stay that way normally; personal preference would be for a larger switch with a little less of a spring-load, making it easier to operate with an extended hand.   I have to grip the back of the switch and use my thumb.   The winch moves the saw head up when the switch is rocked in one direction, down for the other.  I may just get a length of  properly sized cable and extend it into a small box that I will mount more conveniently.  I'm not sure if there's a relay or contactor involved, so the wire may carry a fair load, but I will check the diagram.

I haven't received a response to my question about adapting after market third-party setworks to the WPF, on another thread.   The dial thing is just not my favorite.
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
Always learning & questioning authority
Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 6 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?

Offline scsmith42

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2017, 04:26:28 pm »
To wake up this thread with something slightly new, do any of the Peterson owners on here think this Bosch product would work to provide a laser cut line?

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-LS010-Miter-Laser-Washer/dp/B004GH6YYO

 One thing that comes to mind is that the saw blade on our Petersons is not attached with an center arbor, it has multiple screws/bolts ringing the center.   My machine is at the farm, so I can't go out and look at it immediately.

I had a similar one on a SCMS and the beam is pretty weak.  I don't think that it would work well on a swingblade.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: This Dang Peterson, vertical sizing switch?
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2017, 04:30:55 pm »
While we're on the subject of Peterson WPF, can anyone recommend a remote pendant type "vertical sizing" switch, up & down, like the one that used to be on the WPF? 

I've had one similar to this on my WPF for 11 years.  No problems

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Offline Qweaver

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2017, 07:58:02 pm »
I am about to go thru the entire setup process on my troublesome WPF getting ready to saw A 40" RED OAK.  Sure hope to get it working well. 
Quinton
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2017, 06:32:14 pm »
Quinton, are you still having problems?  I thought that you got it dialed in last month...
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Offline NZJake

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Re: This Dang Peterson
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2017, 12:13:19 am »
MbfA, an intirely different thing?

You just pointed out how you have to toggle the switch up and down for accuracy... doesn’t a variable, cordless urgonomic drill kind of solve a bunch of problems? Your saying that a drill cheapens up our mills from your perspective but heck throw the hand crank back on and your golden, back to a mill that reflects its value. Pretty sure the drill would go straight back on though, it just makes since.

Anyways we can make an electric option... didn’t like the toggling and fixed speed though so you will have to ask us to make specially.

Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?