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Author Topic: How long ar your back / log stops?  (Read 1349 times)

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Offline Crusarius

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How long ar your back / log stops?
« on: October 04, 2017, 07:43:36 am »
I started designing the bed for my mill and came to a crossroads. I am wondering what length are everyone's log stops? I am thinking since my mill is setup for 36" log that the stops should be at least 18".

Whats everyone think? How long are your backstops from the bed?
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 08:09:28 am »
   The side supports on my mill are about 12" tall when fully raised. My mill is designed to cut up to a 32" diameter log. You can always add extensions if need more height - I never have. I'm thinking the taller they are the more likely to try to saw them off. ;D
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 08:24:25 am »
yes. sawing... hmmm. Trying to cut steel. That is going to be a tough habit to break :)

Thanks for the response.
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Offline William1961

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 12:00:02 pm »
The taller the stops are then the need for more clearance at the bottom to ground level when you drop them. Assuming you are building that style of stop that does not swing down.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 12:02:29 pm »
My plan was to make them pivot and connect them all together so I can raise and lower all 4 with one device. The divice is still undecided whether I use acme threaded rod a lever or something completely crqazay.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 12:08:54 pm »
I'd steer from threaded rod. Sawing logs is not clean. Dust, dirt, sap, pitch, bark and debris. Imagine all that binding in your threads even in one place let alone multiple location.
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 12:18:04 pm »
was not going to do full length. Just long enough at one end to get full movement and use a bar to connect everything else.

Thanks Jeff that is a good thought I did not think about.

Heh, I think I finally see a use for the 100,000 stupid shock boots I kept throwing away :)
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Offline sawmilljoe

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 04:32:12 pm »
No matter what length you make them you will try to cut them off😲 Trust me I have a couple of times. 12 inches seems to be about average.

Offline Percy

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 05:51:17 pm »
The ones on my lt70 are just under 14.5 inches. They go straight up and down.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 07:55:34 pm »
On my LT40, with the blade set at 11", the blade will clear the top of the stops with about " to spare!
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Offline kelLOGg

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 06:20:30 am »
Mine are 12" high and pivot. I would not gang them together so they operate via a single device. Even if you have only 2 backstops sometimes a log lands on the mill where one of the backstops encounters a knot or bulge and being able to lower/raise one backstop is a big help.
If you plan to skim the log then it's a moot point.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 07:48:02 am »
Thanks for all the responses.

KelLOGg that is something I keep wondering about. I am not sure I want them all to work at the same time but I also don't want to have to walk the full 24' of the mill every time. My mind is still going crazy with ideas on what to do for that.

I really appreciate everyones help and comments. they really help get my creative juices flowing.
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Offline btulloh

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 08:32:36 am »
Usually you're using only two backstops at a given time and they're probably 6-10 ft apart. It's nice to have extras along the length of the track, but they all don't come into play on every log.  Many times they want to be at slightly different heights depending on what's sticking out of your log.  If they're not hydraulic, you're going to have to tend them, so you'll get some exercise.  Sawmilling presents lot's of opportunities for cardio-vascular and strength training.   
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Offline Magicman

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 08:36:47 am »
On my sawmill, the additional (inside) side supports are geared more toward handling short logs, and that is the only time that I ever have to raise mine.  For normal sawing two are sufficient for me; one on each end of the log.  Of course much depends upon the length of the majority of the logs that you will saw.  With 24', I could visualize a manual side support toward the end beyond the powered support.  I would not space the powered side supports further apart than 7' for handling 8' logs.  The log clamp would be centered between the side supports.

The great majority of the logs that I saw are from 8" to 16". 

I would make the side supports no taller than 12" and have square tubing or pipe to slip over them for turning the odd shaped etc. log.

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Offline pineywoods

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 08:45:57 am »
About 1/4 inch shorter than original  >:(
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2017, 08:53:43 am »
Thanks MM thats very helpful.

Maybe what I need to do is just make the stops and have them setup on a pivot but not link them together until after I get some sawing under my belt and I see what works. I am sure this is going to have a huge learning curve. But, I am also sure I am relly going to enjoy it.

Hmmmm could have all of them on separate levers. Thats a lot more material though.

Uh oh there goes my crazy thoughts again....

So pineywoods your saying I should make them a 1/4" longer than I need? :)
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Offline Percy

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2017, 10:27:33 am »
About 1/4 inch shorter than original  >:(
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2017, 11:48:46 am »
I've got all four of mine hooked up to the same hydraulic lever, so 4 up 4 down. 
The first one is about an 1/8" higher than all the others so that if the band clears it, then it will clear them all.

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2017, 12:00:15 pm »
oooh. I like the 1/8" idea. I am guessing you only have saw marks on the first one? You ever find times when you wish they weren't all connected?
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Offline Coltbodi

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2017, 12:51:24 pm »
my timber king 1600 has the swing type and they all work together, Id say the are about 14 inches tall, which is plenty tall enough for me and I have put some big logs up. I would defiantly say keep them all together, there is no way in hell id want to adjust each one individually! But If I built this mill, I would not make them swing, Id make them move vertically up and down. The swinging motion is constantly hitting knots when I go to lower them. And I raise and lower mine a lot. I raise them every time I roll the log or cant. They are much sturdier in the completely vertical position, which is why you want them there when you roll stuff around on the mill.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2017, 01:05:39 pm »
Coltbodu, that is something I did not think of. Thanks.
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Offline Coltbodi

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2017, 01:15:45 pm »
No problem. I have a fab shop and that's what I like doing. So if you have any fabrication questions during your build send me a message. I will be re-working mine in the near future so that my stops move vertically instead of swinging. The swinging is just to unstable. Rolling logs and cants can be pretty rough and the stops take a lot of abuse, so they need to be really sturdy. In my experience, the less moving parts the sturdier something is.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2017, 01:25:42 pm »
I agree completely about the less moving parts. I am planning on having my pivot points at the bottom of the 2x6 main rail so when they are in the up position they have the full 6" rail to rest against on the outside. When they are all the way up they will rest against the back of the bunks supporting it that direction as well.

That should allow the pivot point to be lighter duty hopefully saving me some weight and cost.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2017, 02:16:04 pm »
oooh. I like the 1/8" idea. You ever find times when you wish they weren't all connected?

Never.  I wish I had five instead of four.  Mine are standard LT40 pivoting backstops.  I don't mind the pivoting action, because they sometimes help me shift an unruly log back and forth on the mill to get it settled better on the toe boards.  It doesn't work all the time, but if I push the log or cant mostly on top of the backstops with the two plane, basically balancing it, where the backstops are supporting a good deal of the weight, and then back the two plane kind of out a little and unloaded, sometimes, not always, I can raise or lower the backstops and as they pivot, they will physically lift and translate whatever is on top of them forward and backward a few inches, just enough for me to get it situated.  Its a pretty hard and stressful move on the backstops, but I watched a Woodmizer Competition Sawyer do it many years ago and I still use the trick.

Putting top rollers on the backstops is a big help when rolling logs.  Also, installing stainless covers or shields to protect fresh wood, especially oak, from contacting bare carbon steel backstops and blue staining is very useful.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2017, 05:15:45 pm »
When building be sure to have some means of adjustment so that you can keep them 90 with the sawmill bed.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2017, 05:43:42 pm »
When building be sure to have some means of adjustment so that you can keep them 90 with the sawmill bed.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2017, 08:11:33 pm »
I like the idea of the first log-stop being 1/4" taller than the rest!

That way, if you clear the first one, you know you'll clear the others too!   ;)
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2017, 07:54:57 am »
I am  still trying to figure out how to make them adjustable. That is my challenge for the next couple of weeks.

The plan this weekend is to get bed tacked together so I can get carriage built
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2017, 07:58:26 am »
Adjust the rods that the side supports hinge on.
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Offline larrydown60

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2017, 11:47:42 am »
I made mine all wrong I have to remake mine. So I am watching here is a photo of the way I made mine don't do this LOL mine are getting bent when I put odd shaped log on I tried simple  and it failed.

  

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2017, 11:57:06 am »
Larry my rails are 2x6x.188 so your setup may work for mine. But I see a major problem with your T-bolts. How do you get to them with a log on there?
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2017, 07:07:37 am »
Cruiser, Mine are 11" above the bed, I can cut to 12" with no concern about hitting them. They pivot up together with a lever on the front of the mill. With smaller logs you only pivot up as far as you need to hold the log. Mine are not square, a little over 90 degrees, everything is squared from the base anyways and this allows you to move them with the cant clamped. Top of the backstops are angled to ease logs when turning, tried ball bearings didn't really help much. Frank C.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2017, 07:38:14 am »
Thanks bandmiller that is really helpful.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2017, 09:07:29 am »
Without having your backdrops squared with the bed, what is your procedure for cutting the 90 face?
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2017, 04:03:55 pm »
Jeff, they are just a smidgen beyond 90 I can get very close by eye. If precision is required I put a level on the vertical face. They are adjustable if I want square. Frank C.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2017, 05:48:13 pm »
I keep a couple of 2"x30'' pipes when I  go out on a job. If I need the extra height on the backstops to rotate a large log I drop them over my backstops. Get it turned then remove them. ;D

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2017, 10:01:03 pm »
Thats a good idea. I started designing my backstop today. Not having any luck :(
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2017, 07:12:12 am »
Cruiser, some here don't like the swing up stops, that's fine, but both types work and the swingers are easier to build. Most of the opposition to swingers are guys with factory built mills, its a different ball of wax when you have to design and fabricate. I have found 11" to be a good height much lower and theirs a chance a log could roll over the top, longer and they get in the way. It helps if the front of the stop is smooth and angled so the log or cant will slide back on the bunks easily. It is good if all the stops are tied together and controlled from one point, I have a lever on the front of the mill that controls both. Frank C.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2017, 11:09:37 am »
Thanks bandmiller. I am still planning on having them all together. I have 2 thoughts. 4 that go up and down or 4 that pivot. Unfortunately I have hit a design flop and am having a hard time making my ideas work or even coming up with any.

The straight up and down definitely be easier to fabricate. but will also cost more. The rotate ones are much more complex with the need for adjustability.

With the straight up and down I am very concerned about ground clearance. Afraid I will lose all of it when they are in the down position. It may not be the end of the world but really don't want to have to remember to raise them before I try to drag it out of the woods. Being a 24' deck definitely has its challenges.
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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2017, 11:48:39 am »
I made mine to rotate. Heavy wall pipe on solid round stock. Then I drilled a 1/2"
hole in the pipe and put a chunk of round brass in like a plug. Then a muffler clamp
pushes on the brass plug so the whole thing does not just flop around. Then I welded
a 1-1/4 rack to the end of the round stock for my log dogs to ride on.

 

 

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2017, 12:37:29 pm »
Stops should extend a couple inches higher than the radius of the largest log you expect to saw.  This makes the log a lot easier to turn.  On my TK-2000 the stops are 20 high which I think is perfect.  The stops are 1 1/2 X 2 bar stock and plenty stout.  The mount is also thought out well.  I've only adjusted the stops once in 7 years of sawing and they were only out maybe a 1/16.  The mill came with 4 stops that work together.  Sawing a lot of 12' and shorter logs the fourth stop was in my way, slowing me down, so I removed it.

My first mill had stops that were 12 above the bed.  Couple of times while I was turning a knot hole caught one of those stops.  Branch stubs and splits were also a problem.  The mill came with extensions which solved the problems, but another step putting them on/taking them off.  I see some mills put bearings on the top of the post.  An expensive solution that could be resolved better with longer stops.
Larry

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Offline Crusarius

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Re: How long ar your back / log stops?
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2017, 02:29:37 pm »
KB I really like your setup. Wish I had the junkyard you have. That would probably change quite a few things on my mill.
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