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Standing dead ash surprise

Started by Wood Shed, January 07, 2019, 11:28:36 AM

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Wood Shed

Recently cut some dead ash near my home and was surprised how dry it is already.  Normally anything brought in from the woods is 20% moisture or higher.  While cleaning up the small limbs and sticks throwing them on the burn pile I notices how easily it burned.  After clean up and cutting some rounds to be hauled to the OWB decided to check the moisture content.  To my surprise it was constantly less than 20%.  Never would have guessed.



 

 

 
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek Proverb

square1

Vertically stacked firewood is a real space saver ;)
I was informed on another forum it did not matter what the conditions, no wood in log form would ever be dry enough to burn without being split and seasoned. Standing dead ash was exactly what was being discussed.  Sometimes you just have to shake your head and walk away.

Southside

This is a good example of why I tell folks that standing EAB killed Ash is a lot more dangerous than one would expect. They are a lot more compromised than they appear to be by the time we realize they are dead. I have seen plenty that broke out 20' up and these are 20" DBH trees .
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
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Allar

Quote from: square1 on January 07, 2019, 12:09:36 PM
Vertically stacked firewood is a real space saver ;)
I was informed on another forum it did not matter what the conditions, no wood in log form would ever be dry enough to burn without being split and seasoned. Standing dead ash was exactly what was being discussed.  Sometimes you just have to shake your head and walk away.
1/4 of the dead spruce trees in my forest can be burned right away. They have probably less moisture than a  split log that has been drying for 5 years. And those trees are standing but they have died few years back.  True story;)
Firewood & Chainsaw videos: Firewood Warrior - YouTube

Southside

Do you have a spruce budworm problem happening there? 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Wood Shed

Do not know where my pics went, they were there, gone now.  Will try to post some more.  

 

  
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek Proverb

Wood Shed

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek Proverb

Southside

That's really wierd as I saw your first pictures!
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Klunker

I don't have/use a moisture meter.

So I have this question.
How does the relative humidity affect the moisture content of wood?

If a pc of wood is store totally away from direct moisture (inside a garage for example) would the moisture content rise and fall with relative humidity?

Allar

Quote from: Southside logger on January 07, 2019, 01:02:42 PM
Do you have a spruce budworm problem happening there?
We have root rot and probably spruce beetles. I'v had a huge spruces filled with spruce beetle larvas.
We took down  a 1/3 of forest to stop the infection. Because forest inspector told us that with in a 5 years the whole forest will be gone.
Firewood & Chainsaw videos: Firewood Warrior - YouTube

doc henderson

you make a good point.   log laying in water will be saturated.  Relative humidity changes with temp.  Usually up at night and down during the day.  There is a moisture gradient dep. on thickness, type of wood, is bark still on, that slows the change but it will happen and arrive a at a steady state.  Like your house, insulation slows heat loss in the winter, but with no heat inside eventually equals the outside.  We split green wood to open it up and increase the surface area.  Less than 20% is generally thought to be ok for burning but even dryer is better.  A standing tree with no active root system to pull water from the ground could be very dry, it might just take 10 years.  We cut some standing dead elm, and it burned fine.  Was dense and not degraded except at the base.  I will try to find a pic, but we would knock over the whole tree and support it in the grapple bucket and let the wood fall into baskets as we cut it.  So yes in your unheated garage.  In airconditioned spaced the rel. humidity is lower.  It is warmer than the outside in winter and ac units condense and remove water in the summer.  So keeping rain and snow from setting on the wood, splitting, and some air conditioned space will help.  In your garage the content will not change with day and night flux.  If you have seen the novelty weather forecaster sticks.  They are thin enough to warp with RH change rapidly.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

in Ks our ave. relative humidity is about 35%, and air dried wood can get to about 10 to 12 %.  In the house it will get to 7% which is why we kiln dry wood for use in furniture.  There are charts that predict moisture content vs RH.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

The real expert on this IMHO is Gene Wengert @wood doctor.  He has done research and written books,  Most of his info is available to download online.  I have a science background and did some plant research in college, which is just about enough to get half of what Gene can tell me. :D.  Temp., air movement, and relative humidity all play a role.  Concrete is porous and if it does not have a vapor barrier can wick moisture up out of the ground.  Are you asking primarily about firewood or lumber? Or just as a theoretical?
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Southside

Quote from: Allar on January 07, 2019, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: Southside logger on January 07, 2019, 01:02:42 PM
Do you have a spruce budworm problem happening there?
We have root rot and probably spruce beetles. I'v had a huge spruces filled with spruce beetle larvas.
We took down  a 1/3 of forest to stop the infection. Because forest inspector told us that with in a 5 years the whole forest will be gone.
If that is the same bug then yes, you will loose your forest. I saw it happen in the late 70's through the 80's . It is a cyclical critter and is returning again. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

doc henderson

This is how we cut dead standing elm in Ks for firewood.  Flooded and dead for at least 10 years.  load all the full crates onto the trailer, off at home and then split 1 crate at a time and convey it right back into another crate.  each crate hold about 1/4 cord when split, so got about 2 cords in a few hours, and min. lifting and handling for a guy with a log splitter.  sorry gents, I prob should have just put this in firewood.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Tin Horse

Quote from: Southside logger on January 07, 2019, 12:24:25 PM
This is a good example of why I tell folks that standing EAB killed Ash is a lot more dangerous than one would expect. They are a lot more compromised than they appear to be by the time we realize they are dead. I have seen plenty that broke out 20' up and these are 20" DBH trees .
During the late summer I was looking for a few large ash on my property for an order. Needed large dia. I checked one out that I thought was sound , about 32" DBH. Started to cut and quickly noticed the colour of the chips. Rotten in about 4".
I left the tree for the time and moved on. Had barely cut in. About two weeks go we got a strong west wind. During our morning walk I noticed tree. It had sheared off about 5' up and displaced 10' to the west still standing hung up almost vertical. Never seen anything like that before.
They definitely get more respect. Got a lot of firewood and some live edge though. 
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

r.man

My father always hung up next year's hunting camp firewood in a neighboring tree to let it dry.  This made it very burnable if not dry in one year standing in the round. Always medium sized hardwood trees. Standing dead for more than a year would be even better. I would burn ash exclusively if I had access to it.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

hedgerow

Years ago when I sold firewood if we had a bad winter and sold all our firewood even what I was going to burn we would go to the timber and find a dead standing ash or mulberry cut it down and split it and burn it right away. It would always be fairly dry and no problem to burn in the stove. 

Viperman

The reason Ash dries quicker, especially as standing timber, is because the outside bark is
quite thin. Sycamore is a great wood to burn and dries similar to Ash because the bark is so thin.  Some hickories dry rather quick also.  Oak on the other hand has a thick bark that slows
the drying process down.  To dry oak lumber in a kiln 4/4 would take over 30 days.  Drying Ash took about two weeks and poplar 6 days.  You can imagine a oak log drying in. a air dry yard and 12 inches in diameter would take a year to dry.  The Maples have thin barks also.  White oak probably takes the longest to dry.  It has a glue like substance (Tyloses) in its vessels that prevents the movement of water.  Hence whiskey barrels. I use to dry lumber when I first got out of college and probably dried a few million feet.  There are quite a few reasons oak dries slower than other woods, but the basics are above.  I hope I haven't bored anyone as this is my first post.

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

maple flats

That is why there was an old saying, "Ash wood wet or ash wood dry a price shall warm his slippers by".
Even a live ash is low enough moisture to burn OK, drier however is better.
I never tested the moisture content but years ago, if I ran low on firewood, I'd cut some standing ash. They were dry enough not to sizzle moisture out the end grain when burned right away. I never found any other species that I could do that with.
I always heard ash got it's name because it was such good wood to burn. I never tried to verify.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Pulphook

Then we got Elm...the wood that is fun to split. Instructions available. :-X
Two wood stoves ( Jotul Rangely ,Jotul Oslo ) heating 99 44/100%
24/7. No central heat. 6-8 cords firewood from the woodlot /year. Low low tech: ATV with trailer, 3 saws, 2 electric splitters, a worn pulphook, peavy, climbing line for skidding, Fiskars 27, an old back getting older.

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