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Chain going dull practically instantly.. How Come?

Started by Rgoedhart, September 26, 2017, 08:26:17 PM

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Rgoedhart

Hi all,

I have a Remington Rodeo (18") 51cc Gas Chain Saw chainsaw.
I use the following chains:
- Oregon 18-Inch Pro-Guard Chain Saw Chain Fits Craftsman, Echo, Homelite, McCulloch, Poulan H72
- Oregon 20BPX072G Micro-Chisel Saw Chain .325-Inch Pitch .050-Inch Gauge 72 Drive Link Count


My problem is as follows.

The chain goes dull WAY fast.   Without exaggerating, when I put a brand new chain on the saw, I can saw maybe one or two  20 inch diameter PINE trees, before the before the saw stops auto-feeding, and cutting properly.

Earlier today I put the "Oregon Pro-Guard" chain on my saw, validated the chainsaw had enough bar and chain-oil and tried cutting a 16-inch diameter Red Oak.   It did not even make it through one cut until it just stopped making any sawing progress.

After it stopped progressing on the oak, I tried to cut some pine branches (5-6 inch thick).  It barely managed. 


This is consistent for the past 3-4 chains I have replaced.  I tried filing them. I tried brand new chains.     they go dull before I can make any good progress.


I'm trying to understand why this happens.       What could contribute to this extreme dulling?

Thank you in advance.


sawguy21

Welcome aboard! This is a great place to learn. That is frustrating. Is the wood free of dirt and debris? Is the chain touching the ground once through the cut? As long as it is cutting clean wood, is properly sharpened and oiled it should last longer than that.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Rgoedhart

Thanks!     And yup, immensely frustrating.  I bought an Alaskan saw mill, hoping to cut some boards, but if I can't get more than 4 inches out of a chain, that won't happen!

Wood is clean, no sand/debris touching it
Chain didn't touch the ground at all last time. It has in previous cases, and I did read that adds to dulling, so avoided it.


I wonder if maybe the oil isn't making its way to the chain?  could that cause this extreme a dulling?

Maine logger88

Oil is just to lubricate the bar and drivers it doesn't do anything to the tooth. Could there be metal in the trees you are cutting?
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

4x4American

Chainsaws are for cutting wood, shovels are for digging in the dirt lol lol


On a serious note, always know where the tip is.  With the saw shut off, spin the chain around by hand and look to see if anything under the clutch cover is touching it.  Are you sure you're running the correct chain?  The bar should say on it what chain to be running the main things to know are the gauge (.050") the pitch (3/8) and how many drivers (84dl) the numbers I used are for an example.  The box the chain came in should match the info on the bar.  Now I think that's a far out thing but worth checking into.  Personally sounds to me like you're hitting dirt or rocks which will pretty much instantly dull a chain.  Also when you take off the clutch cover to change the bar or chain next, look real closely at everything, try and find any excessive wear that maybe the chain is hitting...I would figure that by now it's gotta be getting worn down to the point where it won't hit anymore though lol
Boy, back in my day..

thecfarm

Welcome to the forum. Do some night cutting!!!! I wonder how many sparks you will see. You will see some,but should not see alot. Are you cutting these trees down yourself? Just wonder where the trees are coming from.
Another off the wall idea. Bark full of dirt,but can't really see it?  Use an axe to remove the bark 2-3 inches wide and try that.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

pinefeller

hows the bar? take off the chain and sight down the bar. if there is any twist or bend or you have the improper gauge chain (too narrow for bar groove)it will give the illusion of bieng dull.  i run my chains down to nubs but the bar has to be perfect otherwise the kerf will catch the bar. oh and the obvious dont cut dirt.....

for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

Ljohnsaw

Not to be a wise a..  You do have the chain mounted in the correct direction... ;) 

Had a friend that was cutting off bad plywood roofing (reroofing).  Dulled his blade on a few nails and put a brand new blade on his skill saw.  It cut but not very well - took a lot of effort.  He was getting real tired real fast.  Was about to have his wife go get him a new blade figuring this one was bad.  He had put it on backwards. :D
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

JohnW

Kindly disregard this question if it doesn't apply.  Is the log closing in on your bar?  After you attempt a cut how hard is it to pull your saw out of the cut?  The ground is scarcely ever level, and a lot of the time it works against you.  If the log forms a bridge across unlevel ground, it will sink and grab your bar when you get most of the way through the cut.  If this could be the problem, there's a lot of ways to deal with it including plastic wedges.  5" or 6" branches could have this problem too.  You have to be aware of the direction to cut, to avoid the cut closing on your saw.

pinefeller

ok lets see a picture of the dull chains..... and the naked bar if possible from an end sighting down. and any numbers on the bar you can find if your ambitious. does it cut straight with a new chain or does it curve in the cut?

not to be critical (i think everyone should own a chainsaw as well as a gun) ;D but if your having this kind of trouble  keeping the saw sharp,  im a little concerned for your saftey.

anyway if the chrome is buffed off the top of the tooth your hitting dirt, if the teeth are dented/ chipped/ missing your probably into some barbed wire or something embedded in the tree (look for staining in the wood usually blackish blue.  if the chain is dry and brown you arent getting oil to the chain. its ok to put a little pressure on the saw as long as your getting chips and not making dust.
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

DelawhereJoe

How old is the bar ? Oregon bars, well at least the ones that I have purchased from the big box stores seen to be a much softer steel then what they should be, as well as the chain. Occasionally when a Stihl dealer is unavailable I'll hit up Lowes for a saw chain the cutting tooth slot isn't always large enough for a file and the chain is a softer steel the what Stihl uses. Are you hand filing your chain or using a grinder, if your using a grunder you could be over heating the chain and killing its temper. Another thing to consider is will the saw cut if you wobble the saw back and forth off 90° vertical. If the bar has a problem it will start to cut once you lean the saw one direction. Also have you ever flipped your bar over ?
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Ada Shaker

Is the chain smoking and getting hot?. Are the rakers filed down enough?. You may need to read the wood chips coming out to determine whats going on. Also dirt embedded in bark can dull a chain very quickly, especially if close to the base of the tree. I'd make sure your chainsaw is running ok first and ensure everything lines up correctly, and the oiler is working. Good luck.
If it hangs to the left, your likely to be a Husqvarna man.
If it hangs to the right, your likely to be a Stihl man.
Anything else is an uncomfortable compromise.
                             AND
Walking with one foot on either side of a barbed wire fence can become extremely uncomfortable at times.

Weekend_Sawyer

 What do the teeth look like before you make the cut and after when it gets dull.
Can you post some pictures?
I like the idea of giving it a couple of good revs in the dark. Maybe the chain is hitting something?

Is the chain hanging down from the bar?

This is an interesting problem.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

leeroyjd

What 4x4 American posted:Not sure if this model has guide plates  but check them and chain catch for contact with chain.

Grandpa

If the trees are along a dusty road this would not surprise me, you can't see the dust in the bark, but it is there.

I don't know about the .325 chain but with oregon 3/8 chain, a new chain will go dull in one cut in some conditions, like frozen hard maple. Either file it back to the correct profile or try a stihl chain.

As mentioned above, pictures may help a lot.

DelawhereJoe

Replace the bar and purchase a new Stihl chain and you will not have any more problems from it. Touch up the chain between tanks of gas and use good bar oil....oh and one more thing, watch out for rocks. While cutting out a stump for a custom the other day I rocked a chain, the soft Oregon steel just rolled the point of the chisel down. Almost like I took a ball peen hammer to the point of the tooth.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Al_Smith

This may or may not apply but  it happened to me by me not paying attention and I'm supposed to know better .
16" loop ,Stihl 024 .325 chain that I assumed to be 50 thou drivers .Could not run more than half a tank of fuel,dull .I assumed it to be because of the dead ash and hickory that was about like cutting concrete .Wrongo Mary Lou it was because it was suppossed to be .063 instead of 50 thou .I just missed it .Sh--er things do happen .
Dumb me had that chain half used up before it hit me like a light bulb going off . There it was plain as the behind of a goat stamped on the OEM Stihl bar .325 ,  .063  ::)

thedoublejranch

Is the bar rails worn evenly? With the chain out, both rails flat and even with each other? This will make the chain tip sideways and you may be tring to cut in an arc which doesn't work with a bar and give it a feeling of no longer cutting when its just the bar is bound up?

I know the chain is properly installed, but if you ever go to a retail store that sells saws, the kid who assembles them always puts the chain on backwards on their display model (anyone else ever notice that) I know he is looking at the driver and that "looks" like the right way, but its just the opposite.  :o
The Double J Ranch & Timber Farm.
Member "NWOA" National Woodland Owners Association"

low_48

I'd suggest it may be partly in your technique. I've seen guys move the saw around, almost like a hand saw. I also don't believe in running them wide open, and a lot of the new chains have the rakers way too tall for a "safer" cut. You can use full rpm if you apply some force, use the bucking teeth if the saw has them and apply enough force so that it almost stalls the saw, and file down the rakers a touch.

30-06Shooter

Are you properly tightening the chain before and during use? What are you filing the raker height to when you sharpen the cutters? How much bar/chain oil are you using? I set mine to use 1 tank of oil to 1 tank of gas.

I have a couple chinese chains that i use for clearing junk trees around here like carrot wood, camphor, and Brazilian peppers. They see a lot of time in the dirt and I might get 2 tanks of gas out of 1 before i have to sharpen it. 

Rgoedhart

Alright.    Lots of good information given in this thread.     Thank you guys!

I'm going to try the suggestions, and check some things.    If information was requested, i'll get to that as soon as I break out the saw again. 

thank you very much

DelawhereJoe

Oh one other thing, you also could have gotten a chain that just isn't hardened or hardened enough. While it will take an edge, it just can't hold it cause its too soft.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

John Mc

Quote from: thedoublejranch on October 01, 2017, 06:17:18 PM
Is the bar rails worn evenly? With the chain out, both rails flat and even with each other? This will make the chain tip sideways and you may be tring to cut in an arc which doesn't work with a bar and give it a feeling of no longer cutting when its just the bar is bound up?

One of the symptoms of this is that it cuts fine as you are just starting the cut, but by the time the back edge of the bar gets in the wood, the saw seems to stop cutting.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

joe_indi

I would repeat the point raised by Al.
Are you running a 0.50 chain or a 0.58 bar? If you do that the cutters will sway in the cut without really cutting,

Al_Smith

That walking hither and yon dulls the "working corner " of the cutter tooth .It doesn't take much before it's about like the chain was on backwards .---and yes among other things I have done that .People who don't make mistakes  usually don't do much . ;)

LeeB

Quote from: Al_Smith on October 05, 2017, 07:46:18 AM
People who don't make mistakes  usually don't do much . ;)

This would explain why I'm so tired all the time.  :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

mike_belben

I was losing my mind trying to fell a big hickory with a hidden dirtpile in the center.  Chain smoking dull every 10 seconds.
Praise The Lord

Al_Smith

 :D It's amazing what a little dirt can do in a very short time to a chainsaw chain .

PineNut

For most of my cutting, I use a chisel chain. This chain has a sharp point that does the main part of the cutting. It will cut right through the wood. But let it hit just a little dirt and it will be almost instantly dull

There are many times that the wood is not all that clean. Use a chisel chain and you will be spending a lot of time sharpening the chain. When cutting dirty wood (or dirt), I use a semi chisel chain. This chain does not have a sharp point on it. The corner that does the cutting is rounded. As a result, it does not cut as fast. But when it hits the dirt, it will keep on cutting. Well the dirt will dull it some but not near as fast as the chisel chain.

I use this chain when cutting small trees and brush off even with the ground. I may have to stop and dig the dirt out but clean it up and it will keep on cutting. I use the chisel on a Husky 372XP and the semi chisel on a Husky 357XP. 

Al_Smith

On the subject with regard to the wrong chain I finally got around to using the correct one on the 024 .Makes a world of difference .Some style of Oregon round chisel non guard .Fastest cutting for a new chain I've ever seen .I should have paid attention to the numbers for future reference .
As far as stumpers and dirt I use a chain with about one more filing left on it,chisel .If I trash it it didn't have much life left in it any way so I'm out about nothing .The only semi and chippers I have are on the antiques .Who cares how fast they cut because just to get and keep a 50-60  year old saw running is a feat within itself .

HolmenTree

Quote from: Rgoedhart on September 26, 2017, 08:26:17 PM
Hi all,

I have a Remington Rodeo (18") 51cc Gas Chain Saw chainsaw.
I use the following chains:
- Oregon 18-Inch Pro-Guard Chain Saw Chain Fits Craftsman, Echo, Homelite, McCulloch, Poulan H72
- Oregon 20BPX072G Micro-Chisel Saw Chain .325-Inch Pitch .050-Inch Gauge 72 Drive Link Count


My problem is as follows.

The chain goes dull WAY fast.   Without exaggerating, when I put a brand new chain on the saw, I can saw maybe one or two  20 inch diameter PINE trees, before the before the saw stops auto-feeding, and cutting properly.

Earlier today I put the "Oregon Pro-Guard" chain on my saw, validated the chainsaw had enough bar and chain-oil and tried cutting a 16-inch diameter Red Oak.   It did not even make it through one cut until it just stopped making any sawing progress.

After it stopped progressing on the oak, I tried to cut some pine branches (5-6 inch thick).  It barely managed. 


This is consistent for the past 3-4 chains I have replaced.  I tried filing them. I tried brand new chains.     they go dull before I can make any good progress.


I'm trying to understand why this happens.       What could contribute to this extreme dulling?

Thank you in advance.
Welcome to Forestry Forum R goedhart
When I think of pine like you're  cutting in I think of sand.

Pine naturally likes to grow in sandy rocky ground.
Sand does tend to be present in these tree's bark so expect more touchups with the file.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

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