Opinions on Deutz engines???

[BurkettvilleBob]

What's the verdict on the five cylinder Deutz air cooled engine? I've heard people mention good power and the importance of keeping them clear of debris. Longevity, parts availability etc......?

[Banjo picker]

I had a couple Liebher 921 trackhoes that had the Deutz air cooled engine.  They might have been 6 cyl.  I don't remember.   They were good engines.  Parts were hard to get here in north Miss where i live.  Had to go to the delta to find parts.  This was pre internet days.  May be easier to get now.  Make sure you keep the alarm hooked up to the belt.  If it breaks or comes off (belt) your enginwill overheat in a heartbeat.   Banjo

[Don P]

we've been running a loader with a 2 cyl deutz from the 70's in it. turning hyd pumps front and rear. its fogging for mosquitos but I'm amazed. trying to find another or parts to rebuild it, that one seems to be very simple but quite an engine.

[sawguy21]

I remember seeing them in Pacific and Autocar logging trucks, they seemed reliable enough but were some noisy starting on cold mornings. They never caught on with the truckers and disappeared.

[mike_belben]

Good engines.

[Grizzly]

Got one in our farm tractor (DX160). Starts well without hiccups, runs very smoothly, uses small amounts of fuel, and in general works well. Parts is another story and I don't look forward to something going wrong. I second the reminder to keep belts in good order and keep fan area and fins clean. It has been reliable for us though.

[barbender]

The only one I was ever around was a 4 cylinder, or maybe it was 3, I don't remember. It was in an asphalt roller. Not the same workload as a skidder or other piece of forestry equipment, but it was a heck of a good engine. A little smoky on cold starts, it cleaned up and then it ran great. It was really easy on fuel as well. I don't believe I ever had a single problem with it, over about 8 seasons of use. As far as I know, 6 years later it's still out there doing it's thing. I know we updated with a new roller, same model redesigned, it had a Kubota diesel in it and a higher frequency vibratory system that drew more hp, and that machine went through noticeably more fuel- I'm guessing twice as much.

[pinefeller]

got a 5 banger in the c5d, 10k hrs starts beautifully. out pulls a 540 deer, sips fuel 5 gal/day

[Banjo picker]

For those looking for a possible parts place.  I just checked where I bought mine when i needed something,  an they are still in business.  The place is called Ipsco and is located in Leland Mississippi.   They run irrigation pumps with them just about round the clock.  Banjo

[central pa]

From what I hear its a good  motor . I just rebuilt a 4cyl didn't have any problem getting parts

[lopet]

Been around those air cooler all my life. What I like most about it that you can do a individual head, jug or piston, without stripping everything down.

Without a water jacket they're definitely harder to start. Good compression and lots of cranking amps help. 

Parts are not a problem for me, I have a dealership within twenty minutes.  Even if it has to come from Germany they have it in a week.

The only reason the new ones are liquid cooled is, they had to meet the  new standards for noise level and emission.
912 and 913 series  are still being built in Argentina, so they will be around for a bit longer.

We did one four banger with the after market rebuild kit and it's surprisingly still tight, but only has about 700 or 800 hrs on since.   

What are you looking at,  Tree Farmer ?

[pinefeller]

noise is halfway between a deer and a cat starts good down to about ehh...10f without help. need some cold weather to try out the oem flamethrower i fixed this spring....its gotta be a farmer or a jack what else did they come in?

[BurkettvilleBob]

Yup Treefarmer, C5, something that was listed on Craigslist last year and came up again. I wanted it last year and now I'm still interested. If I had my druthers I'd probably look for a 540, but they're much more spendy. I like the idea of a cheap skidder that doesn't have a Detroit in it. I just don't know if I could stand the noise, I know my neighbors wouldn't appreciate it! Thanks for the input guys. I may go take a gander at it this weekend.

[woodmaker]

I have a 4 cylinder in a screening plant,turning a 30k,  3 phase generator It has been extremely reliable,starts right up after months of non-use,and runs until you shut it off. Make sure the belt tension shut off works correctly,and take the cylinder head cover off frequently, the mice love to build nests between the heads.

[pinefeller]

Yup Treefarmer, C5, something that was listed on Craigslist last year and came up again. I wanted it last year and now I'm still interested. If I had my druthers I'd probably look for a 540, but they're much more spendy. I like the idea of a cheap skidder that doesn't have a Detroit in it. I just don't know if I could stand the noise, I know my neighbors wouldn't appreciate it! Thanks for the input guys. I may go take a gander at it this weekend.

that is precisely why i have mine! ive ran a 518 grapples (hands down favorite, most comfortable to run and ergonimic) 640d (second favorite, most productive) 540b (waste of time,too small for seroius production without beating it to death, very expensive to repair) and my c5 with a deutz. (good balance of power,economy production, ease of maint and  price for my part time use. and did i mention they are built like a brick ... uhhhh well you know. they make deers look like a tacoma parked next to  semi truck side by side.. very well made and simple they just have little quirks you have to get used to like no propriety valving so you cant steer and run the blade at the same time and they are stick so you have to be patient decking and skidding. best bang for the buck though.

[KGTC4D]

Just curious how much oil your 5 cylinder Duetzs are burning in a day?

[pinefeller]

0 between 200hr oil changes, but i seem to have a pretty low hour engine. on every other skidder ive ran, 1 gal for every 100hrs

[Logger RK]

I have a C5D with 5 speed & 5 cyl Deutz. Mine has a Esco arch & I changed out the grapple with one from a 640 JD. We do some chipping & the large grapple does real good for skidding tops to the chipper. Mine has been very dependable & cheap to run.

[KGTC4D]

Mine is close to that.  Everyone running 15/40 oil?

[KGTC4D]

isn't close to that

[Logger RK]

Yes I run 15-40.

[Oliver05262]

I didn't see where you are from, but Holtry's have been good to me http://www.deutzboyz.com/.
I have been fortunate in the last year or so to work on some uncommon tractors and they have come up with the parts and e-mailed me parts catalog pages when needed.

[ScottAR]

Another source for parts should anyone need them.  Don't see as many around these days but they are out there running irrigation wells all year in this area.  These folks usually have 20-30 engine backlog.

Put this in google and get the phone number. 

Dec Engines Inc, State Highway 135, Lake City, AR

[mike_belben]

RCS diesel service in ludlow mass has parts.  Ive worked there on and off for 15 years.. Many a deutz with a gazillion hours came apart looking great.  Where a detroit would have the ports nearly closed off from burnt carbon.

[jwilly3879]

We have a 6 cylinder in our 240a. The preheater was removed by the previous owner and it starts well down to zero or a little below Big minus numbers call for a sniff of ether). Sips fuel, burns no oil and pulls everything it needs to.

Before this I worked with a C5D and it never gave any problems. The planetaries were a different story.

[barbender]

I wish I had a Duetz instead of my ol DD 3-53.

[tj240]

You can't go wrong with a duetz motor, they start good and have good power. Just dont let the motor leak oil, and keep the heads free or debris. My 240a has six cylinder and I have done nothing but change 1 valve. Only used 1 can of either in 7 years. Good luck.

[JB Griffin]

In my opinion a 912 913 deutz is the diesel engine perfected.
My dad was a tractor mechanic for 30 years and worked on basically everything and he preferred a old deutz to any and everything else.

[Logger RK]

I did learn that it's not a good idea to cut a 2inch hole in the tin shroud to put a flex pipe on to get heat in the cab in the winter. It didn't throw much heat. So i took the flex pipe off. Come summer I forgot to block the hole I cut in the shroud & ended up blowing a head gasket out. Then broke a head/cyl bolt off,of coarse flush with the block. I wielded a washer,then nut to it & got it out. I also learned to get new head/jug bolts. I think I bought just one new & reused the other three. It would mis fire when first started. After talking to a Deutz mechanic,I put all new bolts in and it runs like a Swiss watch now. Or at least a knock off Swiss watch

[Grizzly]

Yep. Any heat you need comes from oil lines instead of coolant lines. And if you have a tiny leak in the cab you get to smell hot oil all day.

[Don P]

40 years old, pulled from service running but the oil bill was exceeding the fuel. We found a NOS and dropped it in during this cold weather, I think it'll outlast the loader. They are nice little engines. This one ran a large pump on the right and a pair of small bosh pumps on the front end. No speed demon but if it catches up it'll pull the devil out of  :D

[JB Griffin]

Looks like a f2l912. What kind of loader is it?

[Don P]

I'll have to look at the numbers again and correct this, I'm thinking it was an f2l411 from sometime in the late '70's best we've been able to tell. The loader is an articulated Zettlemeyer 500ZL. Volvo bought them at some point.

Edit, that is the engine #. I don't know their engine number system other than the 2 is for 2 cyl

[62oliver]

 The first mine I worked at had air-cooled Deutz in all our underground equipment, from little 2 cylinders in small locomotives to V8s in the 5yard scoop trams. They were pretty bullet proof, a bit of popping and smoking on start-up, then they were good to go.
As has been said, they are pretty nice to work on as the cylinders are all individual jugs and easily accessible.
I often thought I would like to have one in some piece of equipment, the 240 would be a good place to start, my 453 is good, but I wouldn't miss the racket :D

[JB Griffin]

411 series would be new to me, but I ain't no expert.
I looked a zettlemyer once soild lookin but couldn't get the money.

[starmac]

From what little I have had to do with them, they are pretty good. Miller even made the little roughneck welders with a one cylinder deutze, They sipped fuel and performed well. You did have to keep some wrenches handy to keep everything tight, the one lungers vibrated quite a bit.

They are not used in equipment around here at all hardly, because of heater issues. I do know where an old excavator is that has one, it hasn't been used in years, the owner was talking about putting a logging boom on it, but claimed he would swap the motor out to have a heater if he did. He has since retired, so I doubt it ever gets put back in service.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Deutz engines are very good engines.

I looked after quite few irrigation engines in the 70s and 80s. about 40% were Deutz with full set of murphy shut down systems (wouldn't run em without) and auto oil level tanks installed. Many of those engines are still running with no major tear down to date. The 3 longest running one belong to my cousin and they have over 50,000 total hours and about 5000 hours since last pump/injectors/heads/seals refresh which get done about every 12000 hours. Next time they will get a full tear down and rebuild.

My cousin kind got lucky on parts. There was a Ag dealer that closed up shop that sold and serviced Deutz and when he had his auction sale my cousin bought all his inventory of deutz engine parts at about 10 cents on the dollar. Havent used hardly any of them but could likely do 6 or 7 rebuilds.

Pumping water is a not a difficult task for an engine sothey do probably get 2 or 3 times or more life then you'd get in a piece of equipment.

The fuel economy is awesome and more than makes up for the extra cost of parts       

[just farming]

I have a Deutz Fahr tractor which is liquid cool. A great tractor, fuel economy is unparalleled and the lugging power will make you smile. Unlike most tractors today you have to run them like a Detroit 2400-2600 RPS to get anything out of them. The Deutz torque band is 1400-1600 and its very happy there.
I have also been around some 5 cylinder air cooled. Very reliable and fuel efficient. Deutz Boys in Roxbury PA  have came thru for me on parts.

[mike_belben]

I had a guy fly from washington state to Massachusetts in a blizzard (3 flight cancelations actually) to hear a deutz 4 cylinder run before we cut it out of a snorkel lift.  He paid us $2500 plus like $700 to freight it back to washington for his rock screener. 

When i worked at the diesel shop i was told 20k hours on a deutz is what 5k in a detroit looked like.

[starmac]

I worked for an outfit out of Washington that ran some small deutze engines on lime pumps, they out lasted the company. They had one pump that had an engine that resembled a deutze, but it was something else and also held up good.

[Bandmill Bandit]

The Deutz fuel economy is due to a few things but according to a Deutz certified Mechanic trained at the plant it has a LOT to do with the higher engine operating temperature that can be maintained in an air cooled diesel. You have to keep them clean and change the fan belts regularly. Also when a minor oil leak does show up, fix it post haste. Don't wait.

[mike_belben]

High temps are indeed efficient. 

Combustion energy goes 3 places.  Out the muffler, into the water jacket and down the bore to be turned into rotational output.  If you wrap the exhaust and up your thermostat, the temp of those two rises and thus less temp differential exists, therefore less potential for heat transfer per unit time.  More molecules available to push on the piston.

[62oliver]

The mechanics at work referred to the Deutzs as stoves,  :D :D

[JB Griffin]

I hear what ya'll are saying but my experience differs. I have a m681 memo tractor that my dad and I put a f4l912 in and I simply cannot work it hard enough to get the head temp above 160 can't do it period. Still the most fuel efficient tractor in its class around these parts. 4cyls 70+hp can't burn more than 7gal a day baling hay with a 1745mf 4x5 baler.

I LOVE me a Deutz tractor. ;D

[starmac]

Something strange there, diesel does not burn efficient at all at 160 degrees.

[JB Griffin]

It does in this one :D maybe the aftermarket heat gauge ain't accurate,  but we did check it with a ir thermometer and it seemed to be close. The only time I have ever seen it get hotter is when you shut er down and you gots no air movin.

[starmac]

Strange, What kind of heat gauge do you have, most need water to work that I have been around. I wish it had a pyro so a guy could see the cylinder temps.

[Don P]

Ours is similar, that engine we pulled was bathed in oil and we mopped out the bay. That one is a tiny engine but moving 9,000 lbs of machine it was working. Fire was a big concern as it was failing, we had mounted an extinguisher by the seat and reminded each other often. To check the oil several times a day we were touching the manifold to get to the dipstick and although warm enough to give us a slight prickly burn that was as warm as it got.

On the economy, the 4 cyl Kubota in the Gehl skidsteer, close to the same rated hp but a fast little motor and machine, burns in a day what the Deutz burns in a week.

[JB Griffin]

A Pyro would tell you the exhaust temp. I don't see how that would tell me nothing bout thw cyl temp when the pryo is gonna show 8-1100deg? ???

[JB Griffin]

The heat gauge i gots is a analog bimetal with the copper tubing conecting the probe and gauge.

[lopet]

Those guys who have cooked, burnt or overheated a air cooled deutz simply didn't know what they were doing. Yes they need some maintenance and you have to clean the fins between the cylinders. Heck they run them in water pumps in the desert or in Africa.  In the R series Gleaner combines deutz was a option. The guys who still have them, love them and the guys who burned them hate them.  ;D  In a combine the engine runs around 2600rpm for hours  in hot conditions and gets covered with chaff, so what you do ? you keep a good eye on it.  If properly maintained no problems and I would say for a 1970 technology they have a awesome fuel efficiency , some may disagree.
The only ones I don't like are the 4 cylinder turbo ones, like the BF4L913, they actually  had a thermal problem in my eyes, they were too compact and because of the position of the turbo you're blowing hot air away from the cylinders right towards the turbo, plus the tractors had hydraulic oil coolers  which were running of the same fan.
I think that was pushing it a little too far.     

[Bandmill Bandit]

If properly maintained no problems and I would say for a 1970 technology they have a awesome fuel efficiency , some may disagree.

The Duetz have their roots in the lat 19th century and the air cooled versions w have been talking about here were developed in the early 20th century. they have been around for a very long time. ALMOST as long as there have been internal combustion engines.

[mike_belben]

So when is volkswagen gonna come up with a cheater ecm to put them in our econoboxes?

[lopet]

The Duetz have their roots in the lat 19th century and the air cooled versions w have been talking about here were developed in the early 20th century. they have been around for a very long time. ALMOST as long as there have been internal combustion engines.

I was referring to the 912 and 913 series with direct injection, which are getting close to fifty years old and are still used in tractors,skidders, construction, mining etc.  Don't think we were talking about the " huff & puff ones "