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WM 1 1/2" blade guide question

Started by barbender, September 23, 2017, 08:03:01 PM

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barbender

Hey fellas, I have a question. I installed the 1 1/2" roller guides on my mill recently. I broke a couple of 1 1/2"x .050 blades after a couple sharpenings, sooner than they usually do. Later, I was on the WM website ordering some parts and I noticed the 1 1/2" guides had a note to the effect that these guides will permit slightly faster feed speeds, but blades will not last as long. Any ideas as to why that would be?
Too many irons in the fire

4x4American

Ya know, I've noticed that with my 1-1/2" .055" blades they don't last but 2-3 sharpenings..I always figured it was due to the .055" but my .045" blades well I may get 4 or 5 out of them.  I just figured my mill was a blade eater.  I'm sure the belted bandwheels don't help either.
Boy, back in my day..

Percy

It's been my experience that if you change your blades as soon as the wow factor is gone, you will get way more sharpening sand way more bdft per blade before breakage.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

4x4American

That's kinda what ole JB Griffen was telling me he does, he said he changes the blade every 2 hours whether it was cutting good or not.  I started doing that one day and then I forgot to do it by the next day...I get into such a hurry that I can't be bothered to stop and change a blade if it's cutting good.  Once my feed rate slows down though then I'll usually cut 2-3 more logs and the blade will break or I'll change it...need to get better about stopping and changing it.
Boy, back in my day..

bandmiller2

As band mills have more HP they are stressing the bands more, older less powerful mills the engine was the weak link, limiting the feed speed. With the powerful mills its harder to sense dulling teeth. Bender I'am assuming you adjusted the guides to specs. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

JB Griffin

Thats exactly what I do,  to do otherwise is to prematurely kill blades.
Like loggers say, "they file a chain so it don't get dull"
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

barbender

I think I need to restate my question. I was running the OE 1 1/4" rollers, with both 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" bands. I saw someone state on here that to get the maximum performance from the 1 1/2" blades, one should be running the 1 1/2" roller guides that WM has available. So I got some and installed them, and blades started breaking sooner, it seemed, than when I was running 1 1/4" guides. Then I saw on the WM site that the 1 1/2" guides could shorten blade life, on the 1 1/2" blades. I don't understand why that would be, and that's the question I have. Why would 1 1/2" blades break sooner on 1 1/2" guides, vs 11/4" guides,  as the WM site suggests?
Too many irons in the fire

barbender

Also, I run my blades about 3/16 ahead if the roller flange, in all situations.
Too many irons in the fire

Percy

I run the same guides as you and 1 and1/2 inch blades and do not have this problem. As I said in my earlier post, I change them often. As for your question, I haven't a clue. Sometimes my blades get sharpened down to where the rollers start taking the set out of the inner teeth. Is this what they meant as opposed to breakage?
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

4x4American

The only answer I can guesstimate is that there is more surface area contacting the blade but in perspective it dont quite make sense.  Maybe a WM rep can chime in here and help us understand more betterly.
Boy, back in my day..

drobertson

I've seen bad batches from many makes, it's frustrating to say the least,, I would run bout 700 to 1000 bdft per, then change, but this is just a flexible number with conditions, I've had resharps I've done saw over 2000 bdft, and I quit just cause, and I've had resharps snap real quick,, so what to say?  I say blade composition,,I got lots of guff over this one from many,, too many years in a tool room machining alloys for molds and dies I reckon,, I've heat treated more steel than most I'm quite sure,, strange things happen, and many of them is before the process ever starts,, composition, and the handling of them.. it happens,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

MartyParsons

Hello,
   Where are the blades breaking at?
Gullet breaks usually come from flex life issues ( running blade after the blade is dull)
Weld breaks, well are caused from bad welds, but they need to be looked at to determine the exact cause.
Breaks from the back of the blade forward are from the blade rubbing on something like the flange of the roller or even something in the blade housing like wood block.
Cracks in the center of the blade most times are caused from the blade getting hot. Hi Performance guide blocks rubbing on the blade would cause this.

Hope this helps.

Wider blade guide rollers effect blade life? Not sure know why this would change blade life.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

barbender

Thank you, Marty. The wider roller breaking blades didn't make sense to me. That's just the note that was next to the part on the online part selector.
Too many irons in the fire

barbender

"Optional extended blade guide rollers are available for use with 1 1/2" blades. The extended rollers may provide more stability during difficult sawing, but will reduce the total amount of times the blade may be reused after sharpening"- from the WM website.
Too many irons in the fire

drobertson

It's composition, plane and simple, too many break, with the perfect set up, seen it not only on my 40 but 70's and 300's  even bigger, cutting tools fail, thin kerfs are on the top of the list,,they are cheap and for the majority of the time well worth the money. I and many have used a 20 buck blade give or take for way past it's life span, while others snap-ola  on the very same set up,, so please tell me again about wheels and bearings and all that mess,, really save your breath to who ever wants to try and convince me,,be bet, if you are sawing with thin kerf bands, like the majority of folks here are,, there will be breakage. Change out sooner than later until you really know the feel. Then at that point be ready for a snap-ola even before you enter the log, and be thankful..
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Rachiano

Maybe put more down pressure on the rollers...because if we run 1.5 inch blades we naturally want to push the saw harder (feed speed) and when entering the log the blade may contact the back flange of the roller. Also when ajusting the roller on the idle wheel side...looking from the back of the roller...the roller should be tilted slightly to the right so that if the back of the blade touches the roller flange, the spinning effect of the roller flange will press the blade tighter on the roller flange eliminating waves and heat buildup due to rubbing on the roller flange. As Marty stated...check where the failure of the blades start. Maybe the rollers are also from a bad batch that are out of round causing premature blade breakage. Thicker blades have shorter flex life on smaller wheels. For .050 and thicker I think 24 inch wheels and up will give better blade flex life.
Rachiano

WM LT70
WM EG50
Werklust WG25 Wheel loader
DAF 2100 HIAB truck

Ben Cut-wright

The WM notation states blade life reduction not breakage.  The wider roller does not allow as much grinding before the gullet is on the roller. 

barbender

Too many irons in the fire

Brucer

That's exactly what I experienced with the wider rollers. The base of the teeth is very close to the roller to start with. As the blade is ground down with successive sharpenings the rollers start to unset the inner teeth.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

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