looking for my first saw, looking for knowledge

[moose207]

Hello everyone, im moose207 and this is my first post on this site.  I have started working in the woods more since my mother has gone off the grid tiny house style.  She isnt the most capable person when it comes to felling or prossesing firewood. I have taken on this for her.. plus i really enjoy it.
But using hand saws are cool but its very clear i need to get into the world of chainsaws.
I have been trying to learn as much as i could from youtube and other internet sourses but i cant think of better info then from people with real life knowledge.

I have came to the conclusion that i want is a used good quality saw over one of those lower end box store saws. Its about qualty, life and the ability to repair or rebuild. Im mechanically inclined and not scared of working on a saw.
I have narrowed (i think) down to two saws.
- stihl ms290
- stihl ms390
I live in maine and im worried that the 290 will limit me with bigger trees and hardwood with the .325 chain and 20" bar without a skip chain. The 390 has the plus of the .375 chain and the power so run 16" to 24" bar but worried thats a hell of alot of saw to start with.. any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.

[sawguy21]

Welcome to the forum, grab a coffee, pull up a stump and take part. There has been a lot of discussion here about what might meet the needs of a person in your situation. The MS290 and 390 are decent saws for the farmer/rancher/weekend warrior  but for not a lot more dollars you could get into a lighter yet more robust MS361 that will run circles around both of them. Does Stihl have a good dealer in your area that will support you?

[moose207]

Welcome to the forum, grab a coffee, pull up a stump and take part. There has been a lot of discussion here about what might meet the needs of a person in your situation. The MS290 and 390 are decent saws for the farmer/rancher/weekend warrior  but for not a lot more dollars you could get into a lighter yet more robust MS361 that will run circles around both of them. Does Stihl have a good dealer in your area that will support you?

Thank you, i look forward to alot if time spent here and the woods.
Ya we got good old bobs small engines that is just oit side of town. I will look into that model, the thing is i want to keep it right around $300.
Just courius but isnt a lighter saw more prone to kick back? Well less time to react to one at least.

[thecfarm]

moose207,welcome to the forum.
Is Bob's in Manchester,off the Pond Road?

[moose207]

moose207,welcome to the forum.
Is Bob's in Manchester,off the Pond Road?

No he is in bucksport on the river road about 25 minuets north of bangor.

[TKehl]

I started with an 028 at 12 years old, but I wouldn't recommend that.  My arms were so tired (mostly from vibration) that I literally couldn't lift a glass of water.  Had to go get a straw.   :   :D

First, I would recommend a mentor to start with, or at least a bit of training from the dealer. 

Smaller saws may kick back a bit easier, but so will more powerful saws.  Muscle fatigue from a heavy saw can lead to kickback as well. 

How big of a tree do you plan to regularly cut?  Our MS250 with an 18" bar will cut through all the firewood I want.  MS290 has a bit more power, but I usually grab for a MS250 or MS170 (14" with bar and chain upgrade) for firewood.  an 18" bar cuts a 30" round real easy with a cut from each side.  Would love a 361, but not in the cards yet.

Don't forget the extras for the budget.  You should get a couple extra chains.  An extra bar is nice if you only have one saw.  When pinched you can unbolt the powerhead and put the other bar/chain on to free the first.  Files.  Gas and oil.  Don't overlook safety. 

On sale our dealer shows a 250 is $300 by itself.  With your budget that would be my recommendation, though it will be over with accessories. 

The 170-180s will fit your budget with the extras.  I laughed at the first one I got as part of a trade and figured I'd leave it strapped to the 4 wheeler for checking fence.  But, if kept sharp, it does real good on firewood up to 6-8 inches and will eventually get through bigger stuff.  I've got 2 170s and an 017 now.   ;)  Usually take a couple 17s and a 250 when headed out for firewood.  Of course, anything 16" or bigger is probably going to get milled instead of blocked.   ;D 

[moose207]

It will be used almost completly for firewood.  Im looking from 6 to 16 inches. I figured i would be running one saw for awhile, so versitility. I figured a 290 with a 20" bar should cover 95% of my needs.
But the thing im not sure about is it better off getting a .375 saw if the prices are close? I know enjoying what i see in the 361. As for the rest of the extras i can build that up. Im sure i will want a kit made up before i start using the saw.

[DelawhereJoe]

Well if you don't want to buy a used saw you can always go with an Echo 590 timberwolf 60cc, metal body, should pull a 24" bar it your not pushing it and you keep your chain sharp. New they sell for $380-$400, you may be able to find one on sale even cheaper. Also you will get a 5 year warranty on the new saw....not so much with a used one. You may also want to consider an old stihl 026, you can rebuild them till the cows come home, with all the parts available for them. I used one for the past 20 years or so and it just now needs rebuilding.

[moose207]

If I got a 290 I could run it and swap the guts out for a 390 and upgrade to a 3/8 chain after I she wears to the point I have to have it stripped down that far?
And to be honest this saw would see only a hand full of hours a week and the occasional long weekend.

[Savannahdan]

moose207, if anything please get protective gear.  I see too many folks using chainsaws without having it.  Eye protection, ear protection, chaps and gloves are a must.  Don't forget good boots.  Sorry, I don't have any Stihl chainsaws so I can't speak about them.  I really like my Makita 7901.  If you have a Home Depot near you a looking on the Home Depot site will tell you if they have any rental chainsaws for sale.  Had a young lad cutting a large rotty pine log in our area last week and he had bought a Makita 6401 for $220 through HD.  If you see one on their site at the store(s) you have access to call them to ensure they have the saw.  You can tell them you want it but you also have the opportunity to inspect it (including running it) before finalizing the purchase.  Here's their site:  http://www.homedepot.com/tool-truck-rental/used-tools/index.html.  I entered Bangor, ME, and it didn't show any chainsaws for sale.  So, try you location if there's a store elsewhere handy to you.  Good luck and welcome to the Forestry Forum.

[TKehl]

Methinks, you're overthinking this for the wood you describe.  IMHO.

Reading this again and with the last post, I think ANY running saw will put you ahead and give you some experience.  Chasing performance is a game that only works for professional users.  At a handful of hours a week and a few weekends, you will not get the ROI (return on investment).  Unless you just want to build a useful toy and have the $.

A year or two in (even a month) with the ANY saw will tell you if it's going to work for you and make you a more educated buyer for the next one.  Savannahdan's point about rentals is excellent! 

I mean, I've cut tons of firewood in that size with a junky Homelite with no antivibe.  It get's the job done and they and Poulons are often about $50 or less. 

Hope I haven't offended, that is not the intention.  The internet provides lots of opinions (including mine) about the best and slickest upgrades.  Maybe the best example is in firearms.  A custom barreled piece with great optics and and accuracy upgrades can be speced out.  But for knocking a couple bushytails from a tree, any old .22 will get it done. 

[Woodcutter_Mo]

 I think a ms250 or ms290 would serve you just fine for your purposes. I have cut a lot of wood with a Husky 455 which is in that range power wise. Take care of it and keep the chain sharp and either of those choices should work well for the average firewood cutter.

Any good running chainsaw with a sharp chain should be better than trying to cut it all with a hand saw.

[moose207]

Thanks for allthe great advice so far! This is why i joined and csme to you guys for advice. I do not take offence to anything that is soild advice. I count my self lucky i was raised with a thick skin and respect for others.
As for PPE i completly plan on getting all of the gear that will keep me safe. I was clearing a lot with a group of guys back a couple years ago when one of the guys running a saw straddled a tree and went to plunge cut a limb and the kickback caused the chain to grab his chaps turn run up his cloths under his face sheld and take half his lower lip... i was less then 10 feet away.
The comparison to firearms was great! I am growing away from them but used to be very into firearm.
I will check out ellsworth home depot for saws thanks! But im pretty sure i want to try to find a 290 at this point.

[JJinAK]

Moose:

Welcome to the forum.  You are correct, there is a wealth of knowledge here.

I think you will be just fine with the MS 290/291 for your needs.  Bigger isn't always better, but it's almost always heavier.....  As mentioned, well maintained equipment is the key.  I tend to steer away from the box stores and more towards the pro saws if for no other reason than service.  I'm a Stihl guy, and we have a fantastic shop up here, and I'm willing to pay for that.  Of course now we have a really good Husky shop starting up, so I may have to take a peek over there.  The problem for me is that both places are across the street from each other and this is a pretty small town.  I would have to get a disguise and park around back and stuff...... might not be worth it, but I digress.

If you sort of have your mind made up, then go for it.  Also as mentioned before, buy the best quality safety gear you can afford, and above all, have fun.  Keep us posted on your decision.

JJ

[moose207]

Well my uncle was over at the land on sunday to help finsh up some stuff in the tiny house (its more camp sized) and we got on the subject of chainsaws. I told him i was wanting to get one and he told me he bought a stihl off a buddy a couple years back and used it once and put it away. He said he will get it out and get it running and he would sell it to me. He told he the guy was hard on cash and he only paid like $75 for it, so i cant imagine he would want much more out of it. Helps im family, he never uses it and his son who lives next door has more then a couple saws and always takes care of anything he may need done.
The only thing that has me concered is that he said its a heavier duty model from the 90's. I couldnt tell you what he considers heavy duty or if its early or late 90's.
But i can almost guarantee she will be heavier then a 290! Any input about 90's stihls would be great thanks
Moose207

[Ianab]

Depends what It actually is. The "Heavy Duty" just means it should be one of their "Pro" grade saws, not necessarily that it's a heavy saw.

For example the 026 was released in the early 90s, and is a slightly smaller saw than the MS291. But it's also lighter and more powerful. Likewise the 60cc 036 is of that vintage as well. So if you can find a good pro grade 50-60cc saw those for the right price, then go for it.

Even if you have to be a bit of work, replace fuel lines and get a new bar / chain they are still a good saw.

[moose207]

Ya that is a very good point. I asked him if it was a pro saw and hew was pretty sure it wasnt. Im not worried about it being a older saw or bigger like the 040's range. I can still get it in good running shape and put it away for when a time i can take advantage of owning mutipul saws and the advantages of having a "big saw" if its a good deal.

[TKehl]

Heavy duty is relative to his experience.   Really hard to gauge.   ;)

A Craftsman bandsaw is heavy duty to someone used to HF, but not to someone used to a Powermatic or Walker-Turner.   ;D

Any which way, this sounds like a positive development!  I'm curious to see what turns up.

[Greenerpastures]

Am in Ireland, I see a lot of Stihl ms 250 and 290 here, and people are
quite happy with them.
But I would be going for the Echo range, they seem good value,
and the specifications are absolutely fine, and a 5 year domestic warranty.

Last year I bought Shindaiwa, I won't have another unless they sort the air
filter situation on the smaller ones, I have a 490, great engine, but filter lets
dust in to carb and this is not acceptable, their bigger saws have a different
filter.
I also bought a Makita 7900, I like it more, though I think if the air filter was
sorted on the Shindaiwa it would outlast the Makita, but for the money the
Makita will last me as I use it less than the Shindaiwa, and will buy another
scrapped one for parts, there is a hire place close to me that get ones back
where people put straight petrol in them, bottom is usually ok, as is oil pump
and other ancillaries.

If I had to buy again, I would buy from a well established local store, as parts will
be much easier to get when things go wrong.

I would also advise getting the dealer to set up the carb, even on a new saw, and
take it back after a few gallons of fuel have gone through her, to have the carb checked
again.

I would also advise a 40:1 fuel to oil mixture, or even down to the mid 35:1 ratio
of fuel to oil, don't use synthetic while breaking in your saw, in fact probably no need
for it at all unless you have a good reason not to use the standard oils.

I would also advise, to chose good and fresh fuel / gas, and don't leave fuel in the tank
when the saw is sitting up, it is just one more thing to go wrong for the carburettor.

Keep dust out of your fuel and oils, clear it off the saw before re fuelling as nothing sure
it will fall or get blown into the saw.

Keel your fuel and oil containers away form where you are working, out of reach of dust
and saw chips, this way they wont fall of the containers into the saw, simple things like this
can avoid hours or days spent tearing down and replacing parts due to the incursion of dirt
where it simply should never be, dirt getting into your cylinder will be pressurised and act
like a cutting tool, destroying all in front of it, did i saw dirt is an engine killer, also wears
bars sprockets and chains, so a little time spent on keeping things clean is time well spent,
and is way cheaper too.

You might want to get some wedges too, to ensure your bar keeps free while cutting,
an axe with a 24 to 26" handle is also good to have around, for hitting in the wedges,
and for cutting your saw free if you get it stuck, something about 2 to 3 lb in weight,
do not hit steel wedges in with the axe, use the plastic or aluminium wedges and you will
be fine, especially plastic as if you hit one with a chain the chain will survive a lot better.

As regards bar length, 18 is good, it will cut almost double its length,
20" will be sorer on you and the saw, note too not all bars are heavy,
I have nice light ones for cutting trees into rings,
and shorter heavier duty ones on my bigger saw for when cutting down the tree.

If your tall, a longer bar helps the back as less bending down if you are continuously
cutting a few inches off the ground like in clearing brush, not so much an issue if your
cutting firewood though.

There is no point in getting a heavy or powerfull saw if you are not physically fit for it either,
that would be rather dangerous, and tiring too, get what you can handle.

And keep safe as other have mentioned.

Good luck in your choice of saw, and don't be afraid to take time when working with it,
and ask plenty of questions, people are only too happy to advise.

Regards, john

[moose207]

Thanks for advice everyone! I will defintly keep you updated with what happens.
Ya i defently will be picking up some plastic wedges, i re hung a trailboss axe head on a 24" handle from peavey.
I plan to put together a trifold bag like i use for my big first aid kit with all the tools, spare chains, extra parts, 2 stroke oil, sparkplugs, files and guages, and a couple 4"-6" israeli bandages. It was molle webbing on the back so i can put some ar/ak mag pouches on it. They should hold a couple wedges pretty well.

[outpost22]

I would second the idea of good safety gear FIRST.  Most errors occur due to two things:
1. Inexperience
2. Fatigue.
Mix both together and ....
I would also go to a REAL saw shop, not a box store, and have THEM show you the correct way to hold and stand when sawing.  Thankfully my first saw (a Stihl 010) was purchased from a shop like this in 1980.  It probably kept all my digits intact from the imparted knowledge.

I have 3 Stihls and a Husky.    I think you are on the right track with the 250-290 series.  The only time I use my 461 is for taking down large trees or cutting oak.  It gets cumbersome at times due to its heft and my age.  It also cuts sawing time by 1/2 over my other saws.  Our 251 does a great job on limbing and cutting 18" and smaller trees.  My little 210 is used as a "backpack" saw when we have fence work to do in our remote areas and need to clear downed wood. 

My first saw lasted 25 years. So, buying cheap now may not be money well spent, when quality may last you for many more years.

[moose207]

Would a ms270 be a good saw? And can i run a 20" bar with full semi chisel chain?

[moose207]

We will find out soon! Lol
I just traded a pistol for a a very low hour ms270c. The muffler hasnt even changed color from running yet. It has a 18" on it nowi think but i will put a 20" bar on when this chain wears.

[DelawhereJoe]

With my old 026 I would normally run an 18" bar on it and it did well, no race saw my any means, but would cut well if the chain stayed sharp. But cutting 22" white oak with a 20" bar It would be half a block slower then a Husqvarna 455 rancher, my saw was 20 years old compared to a 4 year old saw.

[HolmenTree]

With my old 026 I would normally run an 18" bar on it and it did well, no race saw my any means, but would cut well if the chain stayed sharp. But cutting 22" white oak with a 20" bar It would be half a block slower then a Husqvarna 455 rancher, my saw was 20 years old compared to a 4 year old saw.

Good points Joe.
The Stihl 026 was the #1 selling saw up here in Canada for years! And we have alot of trees :D
I suggest the German made MS391 would be the best pick for some one on a budget.....