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New RR track for frick?

Started by sjh, December 28, 2004, 02:26:53 PM

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sjh

I am in the process of building a new track for the mill. Other than Frick is there any place to get new or even used track.
The frick peaple told me to weld 5/8" round stock to flat stock. I do not like that because the contact point on the wheels is different. I am worred about stress failer.
Thanks
Scott

Frickman

sjh,

Unless you can find some used track in your area, it's cheaper to have a local welder build what you need than to truck in some used track. You'd probably need him to redo a used/worn piece, so just start from scratch.

The Frick people told you correctly, weld round stock to flat stock. I did this when I rebuilt my current mill and extended the track on each end for a longer carriage. My local welder fabricated the track frame and then welded the flat stock on top. After that he attached the round stock. When you attach the round stock you must be very careful not to heat it so much that it bends out of line. A continous bead is not necesarry either, so very slowly weld on both sides, about one inch out of four. The spacing is not critical, but every bead must have an identical one opposite of it.

Just like a properly sized V-Belt does not touch the bottom of a pulley, the bottom of the carriage wheel groove should not touch the guide rail. The wheel should ride on the shoulders, or sides of the groove, not the bottom. The shoulders do a much better job guiding the wheel than the bottom. As the groove and the round stock on the track wear the wheel will sit down further and further on the track until it hits the bottom of the groove. When it does this it is time to replace both the wheel and the guide track. This is a fairly common problem with circle mills as the age, and fairly straight forward to fix.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

D._Frederick

sjh,

Unless you have a lot of hours with a welder, I would hire an experience person to do the welding. Its too easy to warp the track if you have too much heat.

mitch

sjh,

Hex stock would be more expensive, but it would offer much better support at the shoulders on the guide wheels.
Good luck. It is always nice to see someone restore an old piece of equipment.

Mitch

Jeff

Hex stoc is exactly what our mill uses for guide track. Big stuff, but simply hex stock.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

sjh

Frickman
My wheels seem to be okay. The track is what is bad.It snakes all over the place. Even after I took it off and rewelded it.
That hex is nice, but it sure is pricy.
I will just have to make some new track. To many projects-so little time.

Jeff

If the track is wore out and you have original wheels, you can just about bet them wheels are real worn.  If they are, you will see it wiht the new track. You will probably get just a small surface of the wheels riding on the track, or parts of the wheel touching on one side anf maybe not the other. I would think that this will cause premature wear to the new track.  We are on our 3rd set of wheels on the mill I run and this next time the track HAS to be replaced with the wheels.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Al_Smith

A number of years ago,I was involved in a local county fair group,that restored old tractors,etc.We aquired a left hand feed Frick[1920's],that used 40 lb. to the yard rail .This was pretty much standard narrow guage rail,used in mines,etc.My granddad,had a similar setup,when I was a little boy.If this would work,I would think it would last forever.If this be the case,I would imagine it could be obtained through a railroad contractor,or an installer of overhead cranes.Just a thought.

Frickman

sjh,

Jeff is right, in that if your track is worn out, the wheels most likely are also. What I failed to mention before is that I replaced all the guide wheels when I rebuilt my mill. The track was still in good condition, I just had to extend it to use a longer carriage. If the track was worn out as well, I would have replaced it with hex-rail. That is what is being used on new mills, and it seems to work real well. What is interesting to me is that on many of the newer mills the flat rail is next to the saw and sawyer and the guide rail is away from the saw. I suspect this was done because there is less debris on the far side, but I'm not sure. As you probably know, debris, dirt, and sawdust on the guide rail will cause the carriage to run out of line, jump, and do all sorts of other things.

I reused my flat wheels when I rufurbished my mill. They had some slight wear, but by shimming each axle individually I was able to extend their life. All they do is ride along and support the carriage, so if they are intact and running true they will work fine. At $100.00 plus for replacements it is worth your while to do a little shimming.

Replacing the tapered wheel bearings if worn is also very important. They are fairly inexpensive and available at most good parts houses. It is difficult to accurately saw lumber if your carriage is moving side to side on the axles and wheels.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

sjh

Thanks guys
My wheels are ok. The crooked track is what causes problems. The track was torched into 3 pieces when I got the mill. When I took it off the I-beams I had 5 pieces. It was a wood to steel conversion and I think the guy ran over the track several times before he used it.
My accurcy is not to bad. I get 1/16" differance in 12' Thats ok for myself. I am cutting construction lumber for myself.

Jeff

QuoteWhat is interesting to me is that on many of the newer mills the flat rail is next to the saw and sawyer and the guide rail is away from the saw.

I think that is one reason, crap gets on the inside rail quicker and if you drive over it on the flat rail, the v groove still keeps the carriage on.

 I think another big reason is the power of the log turners now. They not only can lift a log and turn it, but if you hook the carriage they can easily lift it also. If your guide rails are on the inside, lifting the wheels off on that side will let the carriage shoot right off the back side off the flat track. With the flat rail on the inside and the guide rails on the outside, if you lift the carriage, it wont. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

I went to a mill once that had a saw with all the teeth knocked off but one.  When I asked what they hit, they said that a piece of bark fell onto the guide track and carriage went off the track, towards the husk.  The sawyer hit the front headblock.  He took shrapnel to the chest, but was OK.  Yep, an old Frick.  

As for log turning, it wouldn't matter which side has the guide wheels, if you lift the carriage.  You must have a carriage hold down if you are using a log turner.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

Our old mill originally didnt have the hold down in the park position. Yes, you could throw that carriage off, but it would go off a whole lot more if the guide rail was not on the outside. You can lift up the edge some and the  guide wheels will stay on. Imagine lifting it on one side and the flat track is on the outside edge. just an edge of the wheel touched the track and a skating you will go, right off the track. I know it makes a difference. A later innovation, the carriage hold down, elliminated the log turner throwing off the carriage.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

UNCLEBUCK


here is a pic of what I did , on the inside track I welded every 12 inches alternating from side to side kind of like tack welding so that there was no warpage and it works fine . I hope you get your track fixed. This mill is a farquhar and was a pile of junk until my dad and I ordered some new steel to replace old wood .
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

WH_Conley

UNCLEBUCK, how's the power unit progressing?
Bill

UNCLEBUCK

Thanks for asking, I got it out and what a heavy duty item that detroit is . Its 15 below zero every night now and no change in sight for a week so I am insulating and sheetrocking my shack . I have to time my projects according to the weather this time of year but I have a short attention span and get bored easy so when I am finished and sick of sheetrocking I will go back to the mill powerplant and I am sure I will have a ton of questions so dont go too far away. Its just gotten very cold fast here ! Happy New Year
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

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