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I'm backed up

Started by Brad_bb, September 11, 2017, 10:32:11 PM

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Brad_bb

Peter, how can you gauge that?  That would all depend on what log diameters and lengths you are working with wouldn't it?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

terrifictimbersllc

I charge hourly and people ask me all the time how much I can cut, or how long their job is likely to take.  Answering that is my estimate.  I'd ask him for an estimate given what you would be bringing him.  Then try him out for a day or whatever.  There are some customers I would like to charge $100 an hour to, because at $75 I often leave them with lumber for 20 cents or less.  But I haven't yet,  because they are the ones, not me,  that put out with great logs and good help.  Also there is more to his service than quantity.  Another guy can ruin your lumber for $60 an hour for example.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Peter Drouin

Quote from: Brad_bb on September 12, 2017, 06:40:15 PM
Peter, how can you gauge that?



Easy, scale out 2000' of big logs small logs  short ones long ones real bad ones and a few nice ones too. See what he can do. Just drop the logs off and go home and run your mill.
When he calls, go get your lumber pay him, go home and do all the math.
Then you will see what you just paid for your lumber to be cut.
Look to see how good it's cut.

My dad would say liars can figure, but figures don't lie.  ;D



A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

logman 219

woodmizer says a lt15 will cut 320 bd, ft per hour,  or 2, . 16" x 10 feet logs,8 hours  16 logs so what is the problem??just cut the log!!!

WV Sawmiller

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

logman 219

invest in a 12ooo to 14000 pound  flat bed trailer might help

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Ianab

Quote from: logman 219 on September 13, 2017, 04:40:55 PM
woodmizer says a lt15 will cut 320 bd, ft per hour,  or 2, . 16" x 10 feet logs,8 hours  16 logs so what is the problem??just cut the log!!!

2 problems.

Woodmizer says "up to" in the fine print. In the real world you have to go fetch more logs, move boards, slabs and sawdust etc. So being able to saw one log in 30 mins doesn't mean you can saw 16 in 8 hours. Larger or smaller logs also slow production.

And, he has 100 logs, with more coming in.

Hence the idea of sub-contracting out some of the sawing. Like some of the larger logs that an LT50 will be able to handle more efficiently, and would be hard work with an LT 15. Give a good sawyer, with an LT50, some ~28" logs and a cut list, and he should be able to produce some serious volume for that $100.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Brad_bb

Spot on Ianab!  If I can average one log per hour, I consider it a very good day!  It doesn't always happen especially when you are by yourself, edging on the mill, moving boards by yourself, getting your slabs to the slab pile, and dumping my sawdust(I use the 5 gallon bucket hanging on the chute).  If i've got any sizable logs, I won't get 1 per hour.  If I'm doing small logs, I'll get a bit more than 1 per hour.  Small logs into a 6x6 or 8x8 goes pretty fast, especially if you're not taking any boards off the sides.  Big logs require a lot more manual handling.

I am essentially by myself so far on this Ash on site.  I don't have anybody to help tail or drive the loader.  When I have my mill at home, inside, my 65 year old buddy helps me on the forklift to load and unload.

I do not have an edger.  I don't know if the other sawyer has one.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

paul case

I would be happy to help you out but the commute is too expensive.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

customsawyer

You asked if his price of $100.00 is to high. If he has a edger than his production is going to be around 30% higher than if he don't. Just food for thought.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

YellowHammer

Give him a look at your logs, or have him tell you what he wants.  Scout him out.  As long as the logs fall into his sweet spot, he should be able to easily answer the question of his expected or average production rate.  If he has employees, then he really ought to know it, especially having to pay them by the hour.

I would send him a trial whack of logs, for sure, I wouldn't enter into any type of long term agreement unless I had seen the results of his milling.  Are the boards sawn accurately and consistently?  Does the dimensional lumber have square sides?  Does the lumber have excessive waves or defects you will find unacceptable?  What is his turnaround?  How does he stack green lumber?  Is it bundled for transport or just piled up? Does he have a forklift or other means to easily load your trailer?  Does it have a lot of wane?  Is it cut through the pith? Does he do this for real, or is he just looking to pay off his equipment?  Does he have an edger and the people to run it?

Finally, judge him on how well he does, the overall results, the price per boardfootage, the quality of the product, etc? The bottom line, is he productive enough to justify the cost?  If so, go with it.  If not, don't. 

From your end, what can you do to optimize the process?  Cherry pick logs for him, if there is a payoff.  Get a trailer that can be loaded with forks?  Pre buck the logs to length so he is just sawing the wood you want, not overage. 

Or as some have asked, is this long term, and does the expense of sawing justify monthly payments on an upgraded mill for you?  We have a local tree service here who bought an LT50 for the sole purpose of keeping his crews busy on rainy days.  As a benefit, he sells the wood wholesale, at the rate he can produce it.  With your tree service operation, is this a viable alternative? 

Anyway, since you have a mill, you are an educated buyer, and know what to look for.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Brad_bb

It's not my tree service.  I'm paying a tree service to take down dead/dying ash.  I'm paying good money.  keeping the logs makes life easier for the tree service and gives me material.  My average cost per tree being taken down is pretty good right now especially with some of the places and equipment they need to use - bucket truck, skid steer etc.  They have had some easy trees and some very difficult ones that they've had to remove from among other good trees I didn't want damaged.

The guy I'm talking to with the LT50super hyd, has been milling for a few years at least.  I found him on Craigslist as it's free advertising there for him.  He's milled a lot of hardwood lumber, slabs, and mantles that he selling in a good location close to town.  Where he mills is a few miles away.  He can easily load and unload logs and lumber, but I don't know exactly what equipment he has. 

My plan is to separate out the bigger logs, trim and buck them.  Then I'll go over and meet him in person and check out what equipment he has besides the mill.  If all looks good I'll have his "cheap hauling" guy take a days worth of logs over to him and see how it looks.  I'll also talk to him about the most efficient way of stacking the boards from his mill to get them to my place and stack and sticker them.  I suspect the answer will be to flat stack at his place and send sticker with and then stack and sticker at my place to make sure the stack is neat.  I'm hoping if his cheap hauling guy (not sure if that is him or someone else), can bring the lumber back  and then I can load him with more logs and do that a number of times until he's finished all logs that will be efficient for him to do. 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Peter Drouin

Good plan,  smiley_thumbsup I wish you all the luck with this and hope the guy with the 50 dose good for you.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

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