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Author Topic: I'm backed up  (Read 2157 times)

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Offline cwimer973

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 01:35:00 pm »
My only experience with ash 2x4 is when i built the frame for my 20x10 barn and it danced like crazy on me.  If anyone is sawing to final dimensions get some weight on there, would hate to see unnecessary waste as it dries quick.  Not sure how that impacts cant vs $300 an hour but figured it couldn't hurt to mention from another "manual" side of things.
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Chris

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 03:27:27 pm »
Agreed Dave.  I wasn't sure if you were taking offense to the question -as if I was insinuating that it WAS out of line.  I am trying to determine if so or not.  Yes, speeding up his efficiency will effectively lower my cost as he will be able to produce more sawed product.

I only have a 12 foot trailer that can handle 2000#, and it has fenders which makes it harder to load and unload. 

I figure I cannot tail for that sawyer because I'll be milling on my mill...to keep things moving.
I'm sure he has someone....wouldn't ya think?  I'll ask him next time when I have some logs ready to go.

Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Online Ianab

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 04:19:34 pm »
You may find that if he is working alone, then tailing for him could increase his production more than you could saw with the LT15? Just something to think about.

If you are tailing, you can basically offload straight onto your trailer and avoid another handling stage.

And yes you want him sawing the big stuff where he's going to get the best bd/ft rate for your $$. The small and bent ones that you want to make braces etc from, need more thinking and setup, and the LT15 will be nearly as good working on them.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline nativewolf

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 06:08:12 pm »
Agreed Dave.  I wasn't sure if you were taking offense to the question -as if I was insinuating that it WAS out of line.  I am trying to determine if so or not.  Yes, speeding up his efficiency will effectively lower my cost as he will be able to produce more sawed product.

I only have a 12 foot trailer that can handle 2000#, and it has fenders which makes it harder to load and unload. 

I figure I cannot tail for that sawyer because I'll be milling on my mill...to keep things moving.
I'm sure he has someone....wouldn't ya think?  I'll ask him next time when I have some logs ready to go.

I think I'd still look at how he stacks the wood if you can't tail.  Can you rent/borrow a trailer for a week or two? equipment trailer with no fenders and high weight capacity?  Have them stack on a pallet?   Move the wood onto the trailer with a skid steer, then take off at your home.  That will get you out of having to restack.  Stacking and moving 100+ logs of lumber is some chore.  You are an out of the box thinker.  This just seems the one part of the process you can really impact.  What ever tailing/stickering is done should be it until spring. 

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 06:37:26 pm »
Did you ask the guy with the 50 what he can cut in a day?
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 06:40:15 pm »
Peter, how can you gauge that?  That would all depend on what log diameters and lengths you are working with wouldn't it?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 07:53:22 pm »
I charge hourly and people ask me all the time how much I can cut, or how long their job is likely to take.  Answering that is my estimate.  I'd ask him for an estimate given what you would be bringing him.  Then try him out for a day or whatever.  There are some customers I would like to charge $100 an hour to, because at $75 I often leave them with lumber for 20 cents or less.  But I haven't yet,  because they are the ones, not me,  that put out with great logs and good help.  Also there is more to his service than quantity.  Another guy can ruin your lumber for $60 an hour for example.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2017, 05:59:32 am »
Peter, how can you gauge that?



Easy, scale out 2000' of big logs small logs  short ones long ones real bad ones and a few nice ones too. See what he can do. Just drop the logs off and go home and run your mill.
When he calls, go get your lumber pay him, go home and do all the math.
Then you will see what you just paid for your lumber to be cut.
Look to see how good it's cut.

My dad would say liars can figure, but figures don't lie.  ;D



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And a license NH soft wood grader.
Sawing since 1987

Offline logman 219

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 04:40:55 pm »
woodmizer says a lt15 will cut 320 bd, ft per hour,  or 2, . 16" x 10 feet logs,8 hours  16 logs so what is the problem??just cut the log!!!

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 04:59:50 pm »
 ??? ??? ???
Howard Green
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Offline logman 219

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2017, 05:38:43 pm »
invest in a 12ooo to 14000 pound  flat bed trailer might help

Offline customsawyer

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2017, 03:55:26 am »
Does he have a edger?
Two LT70s and to much other support equipment to mention.
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Online Ianab

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2017, 04:42:38 am »
woodmizer says a lt15 will cut 320 bd, ft per hour,  or 2, . 16" x 10 feet logs,8 hours  16 logs so what is the problem??just cut the log!!!

2 problems.

Woodmizer says "up to" in the fine print. In the real world you have to go fetch more logs, move boards, slabs and sawdust etc. So being able to saw one log in 30 mins doesn't mean you can saw 16 in 8 hours. Larger or smaller logs also slow production.

And, he has 100 logs, with more coming in.

Hence the idea of sub-contracting out some of the sawing. Like some of the larger logs that an LT50 will be able to handle more efficiently, and would be hard work with an LT 15. Give a good sawyer, with an LT50, some ~28" logs and a cut list, and he should be able to produce some serious volume for that $100.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2017, 08:15:44 am »
Spot on Ianab!  If I can average one log per hour, I consider it a very good day!  It doesn't always happen especially when you are by yourself, edging on the mill, moving boards by yourself, getting your slabs to the slab pile, and dumping my sawdust(I use the 5 gallon bucket hanging on the chute).  If i've got any sizable logs, I won't get 1 per hour.  If I'm doing small logs, I'll get a bit more than 1 per hour.  Small logs into a 6x6 or 8x8 goes pretty fast, especially if you're not taking any boards off the sides.  Big logs require a lot more manual handling.

I am essentially by myself so far on this Ash on site.  I don't have anybody to help tail or drive the loader.  When I have my mill at home, inside, my 65 year old buddy helps me on the forklift to load and unload.

I do not have an edger.  I don't know if the other sawyer has one.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline paul case

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2017, 06:44:27 pm »
I would be happy to help you out but the commute is too expensive.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
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Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Offline customsawyer

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2017, 06:17:52 am »
You asked if his price of $100.00 is to high. If he has a edger than his production is going to be around 30% higher than if he don't. Just food for thought.
Two LT70s and to much other support equipment to mention.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2017, 12:06:43 pm »
Give him a look at your logs, or have him tell you what he wants.  Scout him out.  As long as the logs fall into his sweet spot, he should be able to easily answer the question of his expected or average production rate.  If he has employees, then he really ought to know it, especially having to pay them by the hour.

I would send him a trial whack of logs, for sure, I wouldn't enter into any type of long term agreement unless I had seen the results of his milling.  Are the boards sawn accurately and consistently?  Does the dimensional lumber have square sides?  Does the lumber have excessive waves or defects you will find unacceptable?  What is his turnaround?  How does he stack green lumber?  Is it bundled for transport or just piled up? Does he have a forklift or other means to easily load your trailer?  Does it have a lot of wane?  Is it cut through the pith? Does he do this for real, or is he just looking to pay off his equipment?  Does he have an edger and the people to run it?

Finally, judge him on how well he does, the overall results, the price per boardfootage, the quality of the product, etc? The bottom line, is he productive enough to justify the cost?  If so, go with it.  If not, don't. 

From your end, what can you do to optimize the process?  Cherry pick logs for him, if there is a payoff.  Get a trailer that can be loaded with forks?  Pre buck the logs to length so he is just sawing the wood you want, not overage. 

Or as some have asked, is this long term, and does the expense of sawing justify monthly payments on an upgraded mill for you?  We have a local tree service here who bought an LT50 for the sole purpose of keeping his crews busy on rainy days.  As a benefit, he sells the wood wholesale, at the rate he can produce it.  With your tree service operation, is this a viable alternative? 

Anyway, since you have a mill, you are an educated buyer, and know what to look for.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2017, 10:15:33 pm »
It's not my tree service.  I'm paying a tree service to take down dead/dying ash.  I'm paying good money.  keeping the logs makes life easier for the tree service and gives me material.  My average cost per tree being taken down is pretty good right now especially with some of the places and equipment they need to use - bucket truck, skid steer etc.  They have had some easy trees and some very difficult ones that they've had to remove from among other good trees I didn't want damaged.

The guy I'm talking to with the LT50super hyd, has been milling for a few years at least.  I found him on Craigslist as it's free advertising there for him.  He's milled a lot of hardwood lumber, slabs, and mantles that he selling in a good location close to town.  Where he mills is a few miles away.  He can easily load and unload logs and lumber, but I don't know exactly what equipment he has. 

My plan is to separate out the bigger logs, trim and buck them.  Then I'll go over and meet him in person and check out what equipment he has besides the mill.  If all looks good I'll have his "cheap hauling" guy take a days worth of logs over to him and see how it looks.  I'll also talk to him about the most efficient way of stacking the boards from his mill to get them to my place and stack and sticker them.  I suspect the answer will be to flat stack at his place and send sticker with and then stack and sticker at my place to make sure the stack is neat.  I'm hoping if his cheap hauling guy (not sure if that is him or someone else), can bring the lumber back  and then I can load him with more logs and do that a number of times until he's finished all logs that will be efficient for him to do. 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: I'm backed up
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2017, 06:20:59 am »
Good plan,  smiley_thumbsup I wish you all the luck with this and hope the guy with the 50 dose good for you.
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
http://www.forestryforum.com/sanbornton     NH Timberland Owners Association supporter.
And a license NH soft wood grader.
Sawing since 1987