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Hurricane Irma and then there is Jose!

Started by Magicman, September 05, 2017, 08:29:48 PM

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sandhills

I'm not a lineman but I do know after several really bad ice storms in one winter if they catch you doing it they not only fry your generator but you'll also be the last to get service back.  I don't blame them one bit, I'm just guessing here but I don't think it would feed back through a transformer but if you were the one working on the line between your generator and that transformer??  I have no idea really but it's a good point and question.  That particular winter we had a LOT of service trucks stuck in ditches and on the ice, all you had to do was thank them and tell them where the tractors/chains were if you weren't around just grab one and use it, service was much better that way rather than energizing a dead line they were working on.  They were working in miserable conditions (as we all were) and a lot of folks without power for a few weeks but they get it done!  My hats off to all the folks doing this and all the cleanup, not an easy job to say the least.   

JV

A generator can feed back through the transformer to the primary line stepping up to fatal levels.  Our local REMC's stress this when installing a generator.  The ONLY safe way is to install a transfer switch between the meter and your home.  This disconnects the feed from the power company and transfers it to the generator.  These can be automatic or manual.  Never connect the generator directly to your distribution panel or feed through a receptacle like a dryer receptacle.
John

'05 Wood-mizer LT40HDG28-RA, Lucas 613 Swing Mill, Stihl 170, 260 Pro, 660, 084 w/56" Alaskan Mill, 041 w/Lewis Winch, Case 970 w/Farmi Winch, Case 850 Crawler Loader, Case 90XT Skidloader, Logrite tools

bucknwfl

Yes an alternating current transformer works both ways. A 12kv transformer normally has 7200 volts coming in the high (line) side and 120 and 240 volts coming out the low ( load) side to your house. If you put 120 volts in the load side with your generator you just put 7200 volt back out on the line at however many amps your generator can stand. The windings in the transformer are at a ratio and not hard wired but the voltage is induced from one side to the other

We have fellow utility workers get killed every year.  Remember it's not dead til it's grounded
Thanks

Buck
If it was easy everybody would be doing it

Ianab

And while it's true that if you are trying to drive a significant part of the national grid, then your generator is going to trip out instantly.

But if the line is broken at the nearest transformer, then the load may be something the generator can handle, you and your neighbour only. And you are making many thousands of volts on the high voltage side of the transformer, on lines that "should" be dead.

Now the linesmen should be testing and grounding lines as they are working, but mistakes happen, and if you accidentally grab an 11kv line, you end up dead.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

sandhills

Thank you guys for clarifying that (or at least in my simple mind sort of), my best friend through highschool is a linesman and I see what you all do, I have trouble with electric fences  ::).

red

We hear a lot about fuel shortages and people being upset . Just imagine if the're is an Alcohol shortage.
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

coxy

i don't get the fuel shortage thing one person say we are all most empty and 2 more say lots keep using   ???

red

Tampa used to receive 12,000,000 gallons a day until last week. Also other ports on the east coast stopped receiving Fuel .
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

samandothers

Crews move early so they can start soon after it is safe to do so. It is tricky to try and time and determine when and where to move crews to but utilities can not wait too long particularly when requesting crews from distances way. Plus they must set up logistics for housing and feeding.

Ox

Quote from: Ianab on September 12, 2017, 04:34:12 PM
And while it's true that if you are trying to drive a significant part of the national grid, then your generator is going to trip out instantly.

But if the line is broken at the nearest transformer, then the load may be something the generator can handle, you and your neighbour only. And you are making many thousands of volts on the high voltage side of the transformer, on lines that "should" be dead.

Now the linesmen should be testing and grounding lines as they are working, but mistakes happen, and if you accidentally grab an 11kv line, you end up dead.
Thanks for this explanation, lanab.  It finally makes sense to me!  It is so simple now that it's spelled out for me and I'm a little embarrassed that it didn't come to me before now.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
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WV Sawmiller

   I had a friend down in the SE corner of VA who said their power company had a collar they would put on under the meter that served as a disconnect like a transfer switch. It had a plug-in spot to connect your genset and an indicator light which, if I remember correctly, came on when the prime power was back on. I think you had to go disconnect your genset before prime power could flow through the unit so it was not an automatic action like the transfer switch on my whole house Guardian/Generac set does. The collar arrangement made sure the power could not backfeed from the genset to the utility lines.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

grouch

Linemen are a special kind of insane. They'll climb out of a warm bed in the middle of the night to go out into blowing wind, snow, ice, rain or whatever is out there and work on damaged power lines that most of us don't want to get near when they're in perfect order.

When the big ice storm tore up Kentucky in 2009, we were among the lucky ones and only went without electricity for 7 days. This whole area was knocked back to the time before TVA, in the 1930s. A crew from Yazoo City, Mississippi picked their way through ice-covered, broken and bowed trees to re-hang wires to the transformer. Tinkling and cracking noises followed their truck's passage as it brushed limbs hanging low over the road. They accepted hot coffee but didn't waste any time getting the lines up and moving on restore power to someone else desperate for it.

Yesterday morning, I sat on my porch and watched low-flying, puffy dark clouds scudding along at high speed from northeast to southwest. That's 180 degrees wrong for here. People on the other side of the Appalachians get nor'easters. We get leftover battles from the Gulf, the plains and Canada -- all from the western half of the compass. Irma must've been a monster to turn things that far out of whack.

May the good folks who run toward trouble get you Floridians back to something resembling normalcy real quick.
Find something to do that interests you.

Raider Bill

We got our power back late yesterday afternoon. minor damage to my house soffit and fascia. lost some fence panels and posts. Every 4x4 that was cemented into the ground snapped off at the concrete. Those that were just sunk in dirt did not. Lost 5 ornamental trees.

Wild Bill lost a china berry tree that crashed into a metal shed. Luckily it missed his bee hives. He never lost power.

About 10 Electric service trucks from Dayton power and light in Ohio came into our neighborhood yesterday afternoon. The Foreman said they wouldn't be leaving until we had power.

Keli lost her roof so she, her BF and Mother will be with us for awhile.

Minor damage to my rentals. Lost a porch roof, picture window and some roof shingles.

All in all we did good.

The storm making a turn to the east and losing steam saved us. Had it continued on the projected course up the west coast as a cat 4 would have been devastating.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Mooseherder

It's going to be a three shirt day cleaning up. :(
My phone is still out but I'm in no mood to go and deal with it.

petefrom bearswamp

Glad all who checked in so far are OK with only power outages minimal damage and no personal injury.

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Kel71

I'm back up and running. A BIG THANKS TO ALL THE LINEMEN.
It could have been way worse so I am not going to complain.

Raider Bill

I just went out to pick up my friend Charleys remains. There were 25-30 out of town power co line trucks  parked in the Lowes lot and and 15-20 out of state ambulances at the county EOC.
Still many without power around here.
Suns out and not a cloud in the sky. I'm actually going to have to turn on my lawn sprinklers tonight.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

DanG

Got my power back about noon today. No damage on my place that I have seen yet, just twigs and small branches down everywhere. I basically had a 52 hour refresher course in electric power appreciation! :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

SwampDonkey

Well, I'm glad that is over with and everyone got through it. Now the cleanup and fix up, work safe.

We usually get water of those storms up here, but so far nothing significant and been sunny here for a week. No water in sight.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Andries

Kbeitz - there will be some Canadian pole dancers joining the clean-up crews:

http://globalnews.ca/news/3725262/nb-crews-florida-hurricane-irma/

Hats off to our Southern friends - it looks like you've managed a natural disaster with flying colours!
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

bucknwfl

We have been wide open for ththe last three days here in savannah, GA. Looks like we have about got it all back on but we will be moving south to bunswick where there is still 25,000 out


Thanks

Buck
If it was easy everybody would be doing it

Claybraker

In Brunswick, allow me to suggest Southern Soul BBQ  on St Simons. If you find yourself over that way.

Savannahdan

I for one very much appreciate the power line folks.  So bucknwfl, thank you very much.  I've spent the week so far helping other folks get their properties cleaned up.  One person said she thought this storm was worse than others.  I can only compare to Hurricane Matthew and Savannah got it's rear-end kicked with that storm  I haven't seen the level of damage from Irma that compares to Matthew.  The big live oak limb that fell actually hit the ground first and then laid against the roof.  I whacked at it yesterday and the only damage is a divot in the ground.  Everyone be safe and we'll continue special prayers for those very much hurt by this storm.
Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill, Logosol M8 Farmers Mill

Raider Bill

They are working like dogs here with 185k still without power in Pinellas county.

Watched a caravan of out of state ambulances and rescue trucks head back north yesterday. There were probably 50 all in a line lights and sirens people were waving. Quite a sight.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

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