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Author Topic: Building a house with a sawmill  (Read 3503 times)

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Offline Jmiller160

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Building a house with a sawmill
« on: August 16, 2017, 12:08:39 pm »
Just wanting to hear some success stories of anyone who has built their home entirely with a sawmill.. and how much money it wound up costing.. I bought a mill a couple months ago and have been trying to cut all my stuff, been hard at it just wondering if it's worth it in the long run?

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 05:58:52 pm »
Just wanting to hear some success stories of anyone who has built their home entirely with a sawmill.. and how much money it wound up costing.. I bought a mill a couple months ago and have been trying to cut all my stuff, been hard at it just wondering if it's worth it in the long run?

I wish we could do that here in Pa. Building codes wont allow it.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 07:25:02 pm »
I had planned to but we ran aground financially.

Ive been logging to get by and keeping all of the sound but unsellable timbers for our home.  Im gonna frame it in debarked round knobby oak timbers about 10" diameter.  Cordwood infill for walls and probably a sod roof.  Have most of the doors, windows, cabinetry etc.  Expecting about $15,000 including slab and septic. 

Offline irvi00

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 08:33:37 pm »
I did it but it was back when my family had an entire lumber company. Two sawmills, kiln and a planer. It saved me a bundle. But I don't see why a smaller mill and a little work can't do the same. As said above, the building code could be a problem.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 09:03:45 pm »
I have sawn the framing lumber, etc. for ~20 entire homes plus my Cabin Addition.  If you have a fair market for the logs, then sell them and buy your lumber, but the problem in my area is that "fair market".  That plus the many SYP trees being killed by the Southern Pine Beetle, etc.  There is no market for these logs so salvaging them and sawing you own framing lumber, etc. is a smart move.  The log/lumber sawing cost is about a third of what "store bought" lumber would be, plus the logging labor and cost.
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Offline Planman1954

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 09:15:27 pm »
I built my barn, which I converted into an apartment and music room with lumber I cut on my Norwood. I dried it before using in the interior in my solar dry kiln. As far as cost...I'm guessing I spent around $25,000 for materials, including slab, windows, appliances, paint, nails, insulation, felt, wire, and plumbing supplies.

  

 
As for permitting, around here, a camp can be built using sawn lumber. My nephew built one which is actually as good as any home. We cut and dried all the framing lumber for it:

 
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Offline FloridaMike

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 10:05:57 pm »
I would think that Log Homes are a code compliant option in most areas, that won't allow rough sawed non-graded framing lumber  (might take an engineer's seal on the plans).  Many years ago, I cut several log cabin packages that were build and passed code in FL and AL.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 10:19:32 pm »
The permitting/coding in some of our nearby counties will not allow non-graded framing lumber.  In some, the blueprint has to indicate #2 and/or rough sawn framing lumber so that the house is being built according to the blueprint.  Lastly, some counties have no building/code requirement and rough sawn framing lumber is allowed without question. 

I talked with a (potential) customer this afternoon that has over 100 logs ready to be sawn into framing lumber for his home.  No building loan and no building permit nor coding restriction.  The only holdup was that it is ~100 miles away and he will have to secure/provide lodging.
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Offline Jmiller160

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 10:40:09 pm »
I live in South East kentucky and there aren't any building restrictions other than septic and if you own over 25 acres you fall under a homestead act and you don't need plumbing inspection either.  I've cut about 60 tulip poplar from my land and are cutting them 6×8 to build a log house with my woodlands hm126.. I've only got 3800 In my mill.

Offline Darrel

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 10:42:11 pm »
Building code here requires framing lumber to be graded. Plan A is to get my lumber graded and if that falls through, plan B, which is really part of plan A, is to saw everything I can that isn't framing lumber. Siding, flooring, interior paneling, cabinets, etc, all will be sawn on my mill.
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Offline paul case

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2017, 11:03:06 pm »
I have done it twice.

I figured the first one would have cost more than the mill for the lumber and the logs were cheap in 08. I was low on the figuring and when it was finished we used more of my rough sawn lumber than we planned for. I think it paid for the logs and the mill.
That manual mill started the business that we are still running today, which makes a living for my son and my family.

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 06:28:19 am »
Amen.

Offline red

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 06:31:17 am »
Only you can say if it is worth it .  Wants vs Needs
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Offline drobertson

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 07:21:08 am »
It will be much less expensive if you own your mill, but will also take longer with more labor, of course.
keeping with a good plan, sawing out extra and being sure to properly sticker stack all your lumber is critical.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 08:06:36 am »
I put an addition on my house and redone a back porch with material i sawed on my mill.  I already had the mill.   Banjo

 
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Offline Larry

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 10:45:10 am »
Sawing framing lumber for a house has about the lowest return on investment of any activity in house construction.  Depending on how you value your time, this could even be a negative return.  Its not just the sawing either.  Think every stud has to be end trimmed....on each end. :(

Given the limited number of hours owner/builders have to use, I would think hard about where I wanted to use those hours.

Higher ROI is sawing siding and paneling.  Highest ROI is hardwood for flooring, cabinets, and trim.  I would knock out those needs first so I could air dry and finish off in a kiln if required.  This is a great place to save $$$$'s.
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Offline Jmiller160

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2017, 11:59:39 am »
Money is far harder to come by than time for me, I'm recently unemployed so I bought the mill and u own my trees, now my fulltime job is to take care of my kids and mill all my other time.

Offline alan gage

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 12:53:57 pm »
I think it depends on what you want to build and how you want to build it. Just got a mill and haven't started sawing yet but I did build my own home from the ground up about 6 years ago. After getting it done I realized that the actual lumber that went into framing the house was one of the cheapest parts of the build. The foundation, concrete work for slab, septic tank, electrical, insulation, siding, and roofing was where things really started to add up. That was stick framing and 2x4 or 2x6 studs are cheap and if you're doing standard 8' or 9' walls it's a huge time saver to use standard stud lengths since it works with sheathing and sheetrock. But if you're doing something not standard and post and beam construction maybe it would make more sense to mill your own rather than buy.

Another option would to be use standard construction lumber where you can and cut your own beams or columns where it will save you the most money. Being able to saw your own siding (vertical board and batton?) would probably be a good place to save some money too. Cutting your own trim (inside and out) should save some money.

Of course I've done plenty of things that didn't make sense on paper from a $$$ vs. time standpoint but mentally it was worth it for me.

Alan

Offline Magicman

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2017, 01:59:02 pm »
Since you have a minimum of cash but you do have the time, sawmill, and logs/trees, I am in the "do it all" corner.  Notice in the above linked "Cabin Addition" topic that I sawed the foundation, subflooring, flooring, framing, wall paneling, shelving, ceiling sheathing, and some ceiling.  The only items that I did not saw was the siding since I was matching the existing plywood siding and the fascia because I used pressure treated lumber.
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Offline dablack

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2017, 02:14:07 pm »
Like the others have said, it all depends.  It takes lots of time to trim each and every stud.  If you have tons of time and little money then YES!  If you want pride of "every stick came from my trees" then YES!
I have some big beams on posts on my porch that Den-Den cut for me.  That stuff is custom and would of cost a fortune to order special. 
Like others have said, the biggest money saver will be cutting the flooring and trim.  The more custom the house, the more money you will save.  If you are building a 1700 sqft ranch with 8' ceilings, then......I wouldn't worry about cutting the framing but I would have some crazy nice 6" wide oak flooring and other custom bits.  That alone would pay for the mill.  Maybe a nice timber frame porch on the back or front too!

For my house, it is a two story and 26x52.  I would need posts down in the middle of the house to be able to use normal mill cut lumber.  I wanted an open downstairs so I went with floor trusses.  You could mill 2x4s and make your own floor trusses and roof trusses but again, that is a bunch of work!

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Offline KamHillbilly

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2017, 03:37:07 pm »
I cut all most all my lumber for my house years ago but I am in an unorganized township no building permits required
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Offline red

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2017, 05:38:06 pm »
Do some searching for Thomas in Kentucky or Massie house blog . . it's more like a Timber Frame Castle
We have a lot of good boys and girls in harms way
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2017, 06:33:22 pm »
Time.time and more time it will take.  ;D  Trees have to be cut and hauled to the mill. I could only take one at a time. Slow,but it worked. I had a bunch of talkers that said they could build the Women Cave faster than I could. Most was talking to the wife.the few that said it to me,I told them to be here tommorow at 7 am and I will watch you build it faster than me.  ::) Did not get much help.  :D
Takes time to cut the trees,saw and build. The talkers have it all delivered and have no idea.
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Offline grouch

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2017, 07:18:05 pm »
Time.time and more time it will take.  ;D  Trees have to be cut and hauled to the mill. I could only take one at a time. Slow,but it worked. I had a bunch of talkers that said they could build the Women Cave faster than I could. Most was talking to the wife.the few that said it to me,I told them to be here tommorow at 7 am and I will watch you build it faster than me.  ::) Did not get much help.  :D
Takes time to cut the trees,saw and build. The talkers have it all delivered and have no idea.

Wow. I think I had the same gang of talkers not helping me with my house, garage and my son's house! Small world.  :D

People don't seem to realize that building by yourself is significantly different than hiring a crew. Even two people working together can usually work 3 times as fast as 1 alone. Just a gofer can cut the time almost in half.
Find something to do that interests you.

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2017, 08:15:47 pm »
If you have the time, go for it.  I have built several houses, there is no comparison to the satisfaction I get out of using my own lumber to nailing up store bought stuff.  The only lumber I bought when I did the addition on my house was the treated 2 x 6's for bottom plates.  I would also suggest that if you do decide to saw and build, start you a thread and document the build every step of the way here on this forum.  I just went back and looked at all my pictures and reread all the nice comments forum members made today of my build. Banjo
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2017, 08:53:19 pm »
And I forgot to post,I tried to clean up each tree too. I cut the brush into short pieces and hauled out each top for firewood. That added alot of time too.
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2017, 09:52:17 pm »
cfarm I leave a place for the rabbits to hide. ;)  It all melts into the ground in a couple of years around here anyway.  I do get out the good firewood but the tops stay.  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline Jmiller160

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2017, 12:01:34 am »
I've already got my trees cut back in the winter, I've been milling for about a month in what time I have available.. I'm building a 32x50 log house with 6x8 logs, Appalachian style.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2017, 12:10:09 am »
buuilt this 22x26 ft cabin all cut on a lt15


 
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2017, 12:37:34 am »
after staining and more work done on it.


 
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Offline 78NHTFY

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2017, 05:59:58 pm »
Yup, lots of satisfaction in doing it yourself--kinda like raising kids: you forget most of the tough times & remember only the good.  I look in my woods and say to myself: this wood came from there--chainsawed, dragged, bandsawed, stickered, selected, chopsawed, circular sawed, radial arm sawed, some planed, built with, stained.....how many times did I handle each piece of wood? I forget but I think that's good :D.  Took me two years to build my barn, last 9 months to put on this kitchen addition to the house.  On the addition, every piece of wood that I could make I used: 6 x 12 x 20 sill beams; 2 x 6 wall studs; 2 x 10 floor joists; 2 x 12 rafters; all the exterior trim; 1/2 clapboards (not tapered).  Started project in Dec '16 so had to buy 5/8"  4 x 8 roofing and 1/2" sheathing.  Had a week on and off of help but basically did it solo.  Pics below are barn; addition; soon-to-be kitchen table.  All the best, Rob

  

  

  
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Offline TKehl

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2017, 06:39:11 pm »
Sounds like you have time on your side and several half size helpers available.  If you can swing the rest of the budget for the house (wiring etc.), I'd go for it. 

If you want some planning ideas try this site (no affiliation): 

http://countryplans.com/

Don't know your experience level, but they have house plans that a complete novice can build.  Plus a helpful forum with build threads etc.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 02:12:09 am »
Our designer tells me that by specifying #2 grade, and with PE approval of the sizing taking that into account, that we then effectively have no grade requirement and can use "ungraded" lumber so long as it is big enough.  That is in VA--is it true elsewhere where grading is required?

Yes, it would mean larger stuff, but wood is abundant for us.
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Offline ljmathias

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 06:34:57 am »
I've built four houses and in the process of building a fifth, plus 5 barns or out buildings. I'm of two minds about using all self-cut lumber (and two minds is better than one, no?). First is price: once you have the tools (and it's not just the mill, it's the backhoe/tractor plus planar plus table saw plus ...) then you can win on price. Problem is, as others have said already, it's incredibly labor intensive and uses up huge amounts of time. If you have those in plenty, go for it.

Biggest problem for me is quality. In trying to save time and effort, I tend to use trees and the lumber I get that are marginal: bad idea as the boards warp and bend during drying and even in the framing. Had to hand trim a number of framing studs because of that. Frustration factor is also something to consider: do I throw this board out or try to make it work? Do I resaw all my studs because I underestimated shrinkage and half of them are 1/8 to 1/4" too wide?

For framing, I've come to the conclusion that time is more valuable than money. Also, last few houses have used trusses for roof and attic/upper story and this only makes sense when you buy them. Making my own holds zero attraction for me. So in the future, I'll just buy commercial framing studs pre-cut to length plus trusses for the top half.

Having said that, I LOVE the live edge siding we use. That's evolved from 1" to 3/4" plus I use fresh cut trees. Did one house with lightening and beetle kill: bad idea! Hate how it stained and went up with some punky areas in almost every board. Now the fresh cut boards air dried for a couple of weeks retain pale yellow color (no blue stain) so that the stain color chosen is what you actually get. That plus the fact that I can do lap siding by myself (not easily and with my shoulder right now, not at all, but can be done with careful planning). With two people it goes up fast but ideal is three: one to cut and two to hang. I always use screws in building now, both for framing and for siding, facia and soffit hanging. Last longer, don't pull out, and if you make a mistake, zip the screws out and fix it, no big deal. Cost more? Yes, but I'm building for kids and grandkids to live in, so...

Anyway, my two cents worth...

LJ
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 07:11:29 am »
As stated early on the big problem is local codes. You may have to buy load bearing stamped lumber for rafters and floor joists. Post and beam and log construction can be an option. Talk to your building inspector some are sports and will work with you if you won't hang them out to dry. Frank C.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 06:24:54 pm »
Exactly, do find out from the building official before you start what he is going to require.

 MBF, here is the wording in the VA code, and many other states this is straight from the ICC model code. Timberframe actually falls under the engineering clause as well, this is referring to dimensional lumber.
This clause is at the beginning of every framing chapter and calls out the structural lumber used in that part of the house as needing grading, so this was from the floor chapter, the roof chapter will call out rafters and ceiling joist as needing grading for instance. What I'm saying is they are waving this in your and the inspectors view multiple times. (I've had them sympathize heavily but point this out)
Quote
Load-bearing dimension lumber for joists, beams and girders shall be identified by a grade mark of a lumber grading or inspection agency that has been approved by an accreditation body that complies with DOC PS 20. In lieu of a grade mark, a certificate of inspection issued by a lumber grading or inspection agency meeting the requirements of this section shall be accepted.
Enforcement is another matter, I can get entirely different answers from a building official in another county. Do consider insurance, ungraded you are building outside of state law, will they honor a claim? I don't know. In my county the BO will let an engineer grade. He's rightfully remarked that I'm using him as an insurer of last resort. I've joked back that I'm paying enough that no matter what it is, his lawyer will surely prove it is my fault  :D

Before you get too deep a visit with the building department to clear that up would be a good idea.

  ljmathias makes a good point, that desire to make use of a board full of personal labor takes more than most people have to reject it. I've watched grade change upon need in every way necessary, I've seen other people do it too.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 07:57:28 pm »
 Law is the law, but like you say enforcement varies.   I guess I'm fortunate, the PE who told my designer about bypassing lumber grading and the chief inspector where we will be building are personal friends.

 Really, has anyone on this forum had the experience of their licensed engineer, PE, being overruled by a building inspector?    Rare as snow in July in Florida I'll bet.   I get that the engineer who told me that a PE could without a doubt overrule, was wrong by the statute, but I'm talking about practice.

Oh, and by the way, in our county, the County Board of Supervisors appoints the head building inspector, and he reports to them.  They can overrule him if a citizen appeals to them.   I can't speak for statewide, but that's the case in Goochland County.    But again, unless there's a professional engineer pleading the case to them, I can't imagine they would overrule their inspector.  In my four years on the Board here, we never had it come up.   I did personally go to the inspector one time and tell him to stop being a jerk to a particular contractor.   He later got fired by a subsequent Board.

I do regret that we appointed him.   Our county administrator at the time, who also later got fired, picked him from an adjoining county and we rubberstamped his recommendation.  We did not do our homework or properly question the guy.

Kind of like what Congress is getting ready to do on that tax bill, that hasn't even been fully written yet.  Yes, fellow FF members, our Congress (Senate) is about to vote on a bill that's not even fully in writing yet.  If you're not appalled by that, what will it take to get you appalled?   As a CPA, I can tell you that some of the stuff that IS for certain in the bill already is as stupid as h--.  I'm still getting over the Medicare drug "coverage" donut hole incredibility. Rant mode off.

 I would have to review what is called the Dillon rule before I could say for sure how firm the ground is that our county is on.  That rule has to do with the supremacy of state law over local law;  it is pretty much a nationwide thing,  but as with everything in the law, interpretations rule.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 08:08:11 pm »
On the point of cost versus benefit, I don't plan to do my own 2 x 4's. Unless I suddenly become blessed with a lot more time than I have now.  Now if I were in the wilds of Alaska, and Home Depot or Lowe's was a long ways away, the mileage might vary.

I also can see that it would be a lot of fun to be able to say that every stick of lumber in a house came from one's land.

My main concern with this issue is the big timber framing timbers.   I recall Don saying something about a knot in a big beam that got overlooked. No matter what your designation is,  or how many tests you have passed, stupid or careless or both is still stupid....

 Or, just accidental.  Or maybe I should say, accident-causing?   Our world is totally completely full of..."no guarantees".
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Offline starmac

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 10:07:26 pm »
Well I am in Alaska, but it is probably only 3 miles to a lowes or home depot. It is worth it to me to cut a 2x4 out to keep from going through a whole bundle of theirs, looking for a straight one, then only to bring it home and have it split from end to end while driving the first nail.

I know I am exaggerating, but they do handle a lot of lumber that I call junk.
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2017, 10:08:58 pm »
Personal experience is that I can not saw small dimensional lumber cheaper than I can buy it, and that is from pine growing on land I own.  Now start getting into 2 x 10, or 2 x 12 - 16' and yes I can save a bundle.  Perfect example is a pole barn kit we bought, 36' x 48'.  20' treated 6 x 6 posts, engineered steel trusses, 2 x 6 #2 spurlins, delivered to us from a facility in Florida and it was cheaper than I could produce it, and I can get treating done at a plant 25 miles from here. 

As the others said, flooring, trim, siding - all places to save big money and end up with quality beyond anything you can buy.  One thing to really be careful with when using your own lumber is the potential for insect issues.  Air drying will not kill everything that may be lurking in a stick of wood, and if said stick becomes a framing member behind a wall when the pregnant creepy crawlie wakes up, well you see the potential. 

If you could devise a cheap way to replicate heat treating to be sure you have killed off anything you can't see in the wood then you really reduce the potential for issues down the road.   

Not trying to discourage you at all, I have put up multiple buildings using rough sawn lumber that we bought and have produced ourselves, just want to give you as much information as possible so you can invest your time the best way possible. 
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Offline starmac

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2017, 11:06:32 pm »
Op has stated at least twice that he is cutting logs for a log house. They may have them, but I personally haven't seen any d logs at our local home depo, except for landscape timbers.

Another way to look at it though, lets say a guy is temporarily unemployed, or even employed, but it takes every nickel he makes to keep the kids clothed and fed.
Now same guy has timber, even already felled, he also has his own sawmill and wants to build a house.
Now lets say where he lives he needs no permits and there is no restrictions to keep him from using his own rough cut lumber.
He doesn't have to have a slab foundation, so can even cut his foundation.

Is he better off sitting back, looking at the weekly flyer on Sundays from the local lumber yard, with the mindset that it is not worth my time cutting framing lumber, or start a cut list of what he needs from the logs he has already cut instead of letting them rot?
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2017, 02:51:34 am »
Quote
My main concern with this issue is the big timber framing timbers.   I recall Don saying something about a knot in a big beam that got overlooked. No matter what your designation is,  or how many tests you have passed, stupid or careless or both is still stupid....

In a "production" situation things like that can slip through because the "grading" guy has gone for coffee or something. Was doing computer work at a local company, and the Office Girl comes in complaining that she's making up an order for customer of X 4x4 fence posts, and some of them broke in 1/2 as she was stacking them. OK they got that under control, checked the stack, and sorted out the good ones. Now that's just fence posts, they aren't technically graded, but if you buy one, you don't expect it to fall in 2 if you drop it. So their internal "grading" had slipped and let useless posts through.

But running a small mill yourself you tend to watch things better. From the log going on to the mill (or even the tree it came from), the boards coming off, and the beam you end up with. You can read the log and see there is a freaking big knot on that face. So you decide how to best deal with it.

So if you have looked at the log, you are running the mill, you are checking the beam, and it's your house... What are the chances you are going to use a defective beam?

All these building code restrictions actually come about from the actions of "Professional" builders, that sometimes DO cut corners and buy the cheapest lumber they can. We have the same issues locally, and they bought in stricter building regulations about licensing builders, that made it almost impossible to build your own house. Of course that created a bit of fuss, the powers that be agreed that "Owner Builders" were NOT the main problem, and the law was amended to allow for Owner Builders and "Alternative Timber". A few more inspection hoops to jump through, but at least there is a way you can do it again.

So it's usually a matter of finding out what your local laws actually are. While you may be told " All structural timber must be grade stamped", and sometimes that's true, in many places there are some "Unless" clauses.

Like if an engineer approves the plan for #2 rough sawn, usually means bigger timber and/or more of it.
Or a 'Native Lumber" exception where you can use wood harvested from your own property to build with.
Or some other loophole...

But you may not be told about those exceptions up front, so finding out the actual law, then making friends with the local building inspector is the way to go.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2017, 04:51:24 am »
 I would say something similar to that, that achieving a comfort level on present & future is the average inspectors' hearts desire.  If you can help reach that comfort level with them, so that they trust you, a lot of things are possible, with no dire consequences.  At the end of the day, they want building to go on without drama, during inspections or down the road.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2017, 09:50:09 am »
I have sawn the complete cutting list for framing lumber for something around 20 homes.  (I lost count)

1.  The blueprint has to specify #2 and/or rough sawn lumber.
2.  The city, county, or whatever jurisdiction has to approve and issue the building permit if required.
3.  The lending institution has to approve it.
4.  The insurance company has to approve it.
5.  The builder/contractor has to know and approve it.

If you fail to meet any of the above requirements you could very possibly end up with building materials that you can not use or a partial building that must be dismantled.  I carefully go over these items with a potential framing lumber customer during our initial conversation.  Some never call back, but then there are those that do.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2017, 12:25:19 pm »
 That condenses the entire discussion pretty nicely in my humble opinion, thank you MM.  The keystone is full disclosure.  It's amazing how the truth will set you free.

BTW about how many of those jobs did you do on the customer site?
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2017, 01:40:11 pm »
All of them.  The framing lumber is usually stickered under a shed but still relatively close to the building site.  I sawed for two homes being built by the same contractor/carpenter at the same time.  He brought me a cut list for the next day every evening and picked up what I sawed that day.  Both homes were framed with green/fresh sawn lumber.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2017, 01:48:20 pm »
Green lumber for regular stick framing?  Don P is going to declare war.

I'm still hearing the sound effects in my mind from the machine gun he described.  Remind me to wear a bulletproof vest when he introduces me to his wife on a job site.

Anything to share on any problems that occurred with warping or shrinkage etc.?  You did both for a contractor, so it wasn't like he didn't know what he was getting into.

This forum never fails to astound me with what I learn, with the breadth of discussion.  Every single day.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2017, 01:59:39 pm »
Yes, stick framing.  I could not believe it either but my job was to saw...not to opinionate.  I guess thankfully framing lumber at least has some time to air dry before it is completely closed in. 
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2017, 02:20:32 pm »
 

 
Here is a picture of some of the framing lumber that was sawn on the Goodwill Sawing Project
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Offline starmac

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2017, 02:27:12 pm »
I would imagine that there have been literally thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of houses built right off the mill, stick frame or otherwise.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2017, 03:32:55 pm »
Calling out "#2" doesn't mean anything without attaching it to a species. If you call out a species and a grade, now I can look up the strength you are talking about. Typically plans will call out something like "#2 SPF or better". You can of course supply something better. If they call for spf #2 or better and I supply SS yellow poplar, I look up the design values for #2 spf and SS yellow poplar. As long as the design value of what I have meets or exceeds the callout and the grading supports it, life is good. The plans can specify #1 mixed oak, as long as the grader certifies that the red oak beam I supply is that grade or better, you again are fine.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2017, 03:35:41 pm »
 To be more clear about the machine gun thing, in case you didn't see that thread, it related to trying to straighten out already warped wood; Don's wife  evidently has as one of her missions in life to use crooked lumber and make it work.  The summary on that one: Wood 1, Don's wife, 0.  years off both their lives:  probably somewhat substantial.

I fought the wood
And the...wood won.
I fought the wood
And the...wood won.

One very over arching concern I can think of with green 2x4 framing would be popping nails or screws in the sheet rock  as nature takes its course.  Maybe using SIP's avoids that problem by providing structural stability, in the case of timber framing, but I'm not sure how they get incorporated in standard stick framing.   That is not something I'm familiar with  or have studied, since I wasn't planning on 2x4 framing.

ps: I tried to figure out who did the original rock song, "I fought the law and the law won", but there were so many versions of it I'm not sure whose was original.   showing my age, but I'm getting so I can't hide it.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2017, 03:37:50 pm »
Surely the engineer will require the species to be on the plans.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2017, 03:53:53 pm »
Quote
One very over arching concern I can think of with green 2x4 framing would be popping nails or screws in the sheet rock  as nature takes its course.

That's one of the reasons you let the framing dry in place before you seal things up with drywall. In reality there is plenty to do on the build between the framing going up and the drywall going on. Roof, exterior cladding, plumbing and wiring etc. While you are doing that, the framing is drying in place.

Your "green" wood will no longer be green after 6 weeks, and probably have similar moisture to commercial construction lumber, usually a bit under 20%. Locally builders like to see it under 15% before the walls get closed in.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2017, 04:07:44 pm »
Surely he will give species AND grade or strength required.
Example, buy a set of stock plans, they come with the typical callout "#2 SPF or better". Those species don't grow here. You have mixed oak, mixed maple and yellow poplar. The problem then becomes "Can any of them substitute and if so at what grade?".
On this job I designed a beam for #2 northern red oak, I could only find scarlet, will it work and at what grade.
On another, the designer called out dougfir and I was in coastal Carolina, longleaf was available, same question.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2017, 04:12:16 pm »
Yup, our SYP is commonly graded #2 SPIB, (Southern Pine Inspection Bureau) but that is the Architect's call.

My reply was more generic.   ;D

"I Fought the Law" is a song written by Sonny Curtis of the Crickets and became popularized by a cover by the Bobby Fuller Four, which went on to become a top-ten hit for the band in 1966.

I tried to link the video but I could not get it to work but pasting it to your browser works:



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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2017, 04:21:43 pm »
Your pine is graded #2 SYP, mill grading was audited by SPIB, they are the independent third party overseer. If I need a grader I can call them or for me TP is closer, up north NeLMA, etc and they will schedule a grader. I might have him grade the red oak, the maple and the poplar and at the end of that he will have assigned a grade to each board. He will not be able to tell me the strength of those boards only the grade. It is then up to me to go look up the strength of each of those species at the grade he has assigned.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2017, 04:50:02 pm »
Please don't think this is a dumb question, just one from a newbie:
is it possible for a grader to grade wood that's already in the timber frame?   Yes,  if allowable, I understand there is then a certain amount of risk on the part of the building party of having to tear something out, or perhaps, brace it or sister it in some way?
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2017, 05:17:23 pm »
They can grade what they can see, you are supposed to look at all faces when grading. So technically no. Hard to say, more questions for the BO.

What I've been trying to stick in here is the exact legal code stuff, identifying where the line of the law is and describing how that is intended to work. Where MM and apparently you have an easier time it is sometimes good to know how far it is back to that line. This is why I've been a little picky here, I want you all to be able to understand it. Often the building official is not that well versed in this.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2017, 05:25:53 pm »
Thanks, if there is any question whatsoever, then don't saw.  There are a couple of counties North of me that I will not saw framing lumber in.  To do so would only lead to wasted lumber or someone dismantling.  Whichever, it would be a very dissatisfied former customer.  Anything other than framing lumber is OK.  In my immediate surrounding counties there is no code, building permit, nor inspections.
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Offline starmac

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2017, 05:57:03 pm »
MM, In those counties north of you that do not allow ungraded lumber for structural use, is it not allowed in agriculture  out building use?
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2017, 06:01:19 pm »
I don't know for sure but they have to get permits for those buildings so my guess would be graded lumber.

I get several calls every year and my answer is "no sawing framing lumber".
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2017, 06:23:30 pm »
 It's pretty clear that some states are more uniform in their application/ enforcement of the building code than others. That dribbles down to the counties as well  since they have to dance to the state tune.  That is where the much hated Dillon rule comes in.  But as a former county supervisor who didn't like it, I understand that you can't have local guys totally defying state rules just because a few shouting constituents insist on it.   As Don and I agree, application of the rules in Virginia sometimes depends very much on the locals.  Even though there may not be that much variation in the state law itself.

Did I just succeed in twisting myself totally into a pretzel on that last paragraph?

 Personally, I never find any of Don's posts to be overly picky.  He's just trying to tell us what he knows when asked, and he evidently knows a heck of a lot.  In my few months on here, I have developed a lot of respect for him, Magicman and a bunch of others too numerous to list here.

 When I want to learn, and occasionally be able to help, I come to this forum. I only wish there were such a resource for restaurant owners.  In my 31+ yrs  owning experience with my wife,  my fellow restaurant owners are a mostly decent bunch, but not nearly as friendly and nice as this group.  Even the CPA bunch is not nearly so helpful to each other.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2017, 09:04:34 pm »
Please don't think this is a dumb question, just one from a newbie:
is it possible for a grader to grade wood that's already in the timber frame?   Yes,  if allowable, I understand there is then a certain amount of risk on the part of the building party of having to tear something out, or perhaps, brace it or sister it in some way?

Also, what I read somewhere...  If you are having a grader come out to inspect your timbers, you better not have cut your joints.  A mortise hole would be a defect and your great #2 or even #1 timber might be classified as a #3 :o
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2017, 09:13:42 pm »
 I would make sure it became very difficult for such a person to get work from anyone that I was able to tell his story to.  Social media and its ability to spread stories of such bureaucratic stupidity makes it less likely, in my op.

 Don, you seem to be plugged into the grading world, have you ever heard of that?
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2017, 09:15:43 pm »
Several of us were at a TF Guild conference several years ago. Buddy Showalter from the AWC was talking about grading of timbers and there was some discussion of grading after joinery prior to assembly. That has been several years and I've not heard more.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2017, 09:35:33 pm »
 The main concern in my mind about grading is not so much that we wouldn't have enough good lumber from our woods that grades well enough at minimum sizing to use.  It's that all the lumber would have to be available at once to avoid  expensive multiple visits from the grader charging for both travel and time.

If that needs elaboration, let me know and I'll try to be more clear.

I can't help it, I'm a CPA and into financial (and therefore operational)  efficiency.  If we are to get this project done, efficiency is a big part.

That's another expression for tight.

Our restaurant has mostly always been open just four days a week.  When we were first getting started and lived next-door, I turned off the gas and thus all the pilot lights, every Sunday night, and re-lit them Thursday afternoon before the kitchen started up.  Our heat was oil then, btw.

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Offline starmac

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2017, 09:58:22 pm »
I was talking to one of the hands at the sawmill a few weeks back, while they were loading some utility poles on my truck. They had a grader there, that had flown up from Washington state just to grade their lumber, I can't imagine what that cost. I never knew any of the lumber they sawed was graded.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2017, 10:25:17 pm »
It certainly would be cheaper to have all the wood ready for grading at once, which is what the mill starmac is describing must have done for a job.

 My barn client is one of our supervisors and he has certainly suffered through me venting about all of this. He also hears Harry Homeowner complaining about that bad building inspector. Generally when you tell someone they can't do something they aren't going to be happy. Go very carefully firing or even with solidarity. The community has a lot tied up in training these guys and when we lose one it takes us a decade to bring a green one up to speed.  We started that job marking trees as per the cut list the timberframers gave us, we had a logger fell and deliver the tree lengths to the saw area. That list would have been easy to grade. Near the end, after we had major project creep and my partner and I were back and forth from forest to mill to timberframers. We had finally delivered over 3 times that original list. Happily this was ag exempt, had it been residential we would have needed a grader on payroll. I pointed this out to our supervisor as one of the things that doesn't really work with the present system.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2017, 10:57:04 pm »
 Your last sentence highlights what may be the reason why a lot of building inspectors are less than rabid about grading and perhaps other things.

Again referencing my years in government, it's pretty rare that local government doesn't feel the heat when something is wrong and then react accordingly, often in less that forthright in your face ways.   It's the old saying: success is getting what you want, happiness is wanting what you get.  Sometimes even public officials take that course under advisement.

Something else just occurred to me, from my 1970-71 quarter as a civil engineering co-op student at the Seaboard Coastline Railroad (part of now CSX):

"Sign" in the Division Engineer's Office (my boss), recognizing the confusion between engineers and enginemen, the new name then for "train operators"

I'm not allowed to drive the train
Nor even clang the bell.
But let it jump the g_d_m track
And see who catches h__l.

I can elaborate if the analogy is too far out there.
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Offline Georgia088

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2017, 11:06:24 pm »
I know this is probably off subject and maybe even a stupid question, but I'm curious. If there were no building inspectors or enforcement on rough cut lumber at all: would YOU use green lumber for framing right off the mill? I understand that the likely answer will probably be to have it dry first because of cosmetic blemishes such as dry wall cracks etc. however for the structural purpose of it, how much better is dried lumber than right off the mill green lumber? I'm sure species matters as well. Sothern yellow pine is what I have seen used the most in my area for framing with rough cut material.

Offline starmac

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2017, 12:16:30 am »
DonP, the mill I am talking about is our only commercial mill for interior Alaska. They supply the general public rough cut lumber, even planed and tongue and groove flooring, but air dried, no kiln. they also import wood and everything else a lumber yard has.
They were not bringing a grader up for one job, but for general sales, as they probably have a years supply of dimensional lumber drying most of the time.
One of their biggest products though is oilfield dunnage.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2017, 03:53:47 am »
 Seems like Georgia088's question posed about green versus dried is not what graders are looking at is it?  Or is dry lumber inherently stronger?
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2017, 07:21:19 am »
 I have built green, I don't think it's a great idea if you can avoid it. Dry wood is roughly twice as strong as green. Nails driven into green wood that subsequently dries lose up to 70% of their withdrawal strength. Then there is the distortion that goes on during drying.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2017, 08:05:58 am »
The two homes that I described in Reply #45 being built with green lumber are/were the only ones that I am aware of.  Most customers sticker and air dry for 6-12 months.  I do not know of any that used kiln dried lumber.

I used kiln dried T&G SYP for wall paneling in the Cabin Addition.  A year later I installed SYP and Ash wall paneling & ceiling that had been air dried only.  Now two years later I can not tell any difference.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2017, 04:43:08 pm »
Look up SDR, saw-dry-rip. I prefer to do especially yellow poplar framing that way. I don't try to compete with dimensional framing lumber so when I cut framing it is generally for me or farm use where the supply and the mill makes some sort of sense. In residential work I usually buy framing. Where the small mill shines in structural wood is in the specialty sizes. If we need exposed structural timber then it all begins to make sense. Depending on how it is treated locally, the timber, your equipment and time, where it works for anyone is a moving point. Normally when I buy kd T&G it is at 15%. I prefer it drier than that, whenever possible we air dry it further in the house under construction, our air dried emc is closer to 12% and inside with heat running hard we can get to 8.

We've been talking about sawing for a house, where it really pays is in the finishes. My house is trimmed in red oak, ever price red oak trim? The trim, cabinets, paneling, stairs etc are high dollar items and ungraded lumber.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2017, 05:07:07 pm »
Don's last post makes a lot of sense, but there's still the glow one gets from knowing that all the lumber in their house came from their land; and as has been said, a lot of it depends on how you value your time.  Opportunity cost is the operative term.

People have paid & will pay good money for sillier things.  Witness some of the geegaws in the McMansions that are now for sale for a fraction of what they cost to build & "equip".

I would agree 100% that trim and other specialty items are where having your own mill will be most cost-effective.  Wouldn't you include the big timbers for timber framing in there as well--good luck finding those type Timbers at Home Depot.  My understanding is you usually get those from somebody who has a mill just like you might have.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2017, 05:31:35 pm »
 I am struggling with the physics on full speed ahead to get 8% emc wood in a house where I'm going to be trying to maintain 45 to 50% relative humidity  long-term.  Would that wood not try to equalize up to a higher moisture content due to what is ambient?  Why go so low, I don't get the advantage?  Doesn't that just potentially add expense?  I'm not being a smart aleck; I know Don can probably explain it.

My brain's logic section brain tells me it should be equalized to the environment it's going to be in (tho' it will likely never be equal to the room RH, will it?), not sure why I would want pay to go way way below it to install.

Maybe bugs are the concern?

I think I have heard it said that nature abhors a vacuum and in fact "imbalances", in most situations?  Things like vapor pressure etc. enter into it,  and that's getting into that stuff I don't remember.

I stopped in the middle of taking physics back in 1971 at Virginia Tech, to transfer to accounting, so I'm a bit more than rusty.  When our indoor RH gets below 40%, my nose starts drying out, respiratory stuff becomes much more of a problem.  Ultrasonic humidification from Costco to the rescue.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2017, 05:52:18 pm »
My Cabin Addition paneling was dried to 8% and then was stored inside of the enclosed Cabin until it was used.  I commented on having to move the stacks several times as my work progressed.  If I remember correctly it was up to ~10% by the time that I actually used it.

Quote
but there's still the glow one gets from knowing that all the lumber in their house came from their land
Yes, this is a very common comment that I hear.  After it was framed up one customer stood at his front entrance and picked out the Oak trees that he wanted to fell and have sawn into his wall paneling.  Only the tree tops of some of them were visible, but they were the ones that he wanted.
 

 
Clyde's wall paneling.
 

 
 

 
Red Oak paneling being installed.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2017, 06:12:05 pm »
MM very nice.  Did you have to put sheetrock under that paneling for fire rating purposes?   I recall something about sheetrock being required over the OSB that faces inside with SIPs, to get the required fire rating.
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2017, 06:42:05 pm »
You are correct that you should be drying with the intended location in mind.

The majority of US homes with their central heating do get very dry, especially over Winter. Although the outside air might be 50-60% RH, when you heat it up to a comfortable level you are down under 30%.

But if you are going to control that with humidification, then aim to have your wood at the appropiate level.

A piece of wood in my house sits around 13%. But then I have to run a DEhumidifier to keep my humidity down around 60%. And that's off today as it's a nice Summer day and the house is opened up. RH outside has come Down to about 70% by midday. It started the morning around 100% (Morning mist)

So 8% wood is not a good thing for me, it would need to gain moisture before use.

And bugs are killed by heat in a kiln. PBB beetles can live at 8% MC, which is what makes them so annoying.  :-[  The majority of bug that might live in green wood will die off as the wood dries out. But that's when the PBBs like to move in.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2017, 06:46:15 pm »
 It's cold here right now Ian, thanks for reminding us that you're enjoying a wonderful summer.  :snowball: :snowball: :snowball:
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2017, 06:55:50 pm »
No sheetrock is under my SYP wall paneling and I have no idea about Clyde's Red Oak.  It's also in the same county with no permits or inspections.

We have no fire (truck, etc.) protection so if it catches fire it will go to the ground anyway.  As long as we get out nothing else matters.  There is no fire insurance on it either because it is classified as an "unoccupied" dwelling.
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Offline reswire

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #83 on: December 03, 2017, 07:18:01 pm »
I live in South East kentucky and there aren't any building restrictions other than septic and if you own over 25 acres you fall under a homestead act and you don't need plumbing inspection either.  I've cut about 60 tulip poplar from my land and are cutting them 6×8 to build a log house with my woodlands hm126.. I've only got 3800 In my mill.
  Do you know many people who have used Tulip Poplar for a log cabin build?  I've got access to quite a few, but was always concerned if the poplar would withstand the weather.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2017, 08:03:54 pm »
I do grade, but only lumber from my mill, It's the way the law is set up here.
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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #85 on: December 03, 2017, 08:06:22 pm »
Almost all the NE states now have native lumber laws, several down here do but not me yet.

Poplar cabins are out there, Dolly can't be wrong  ;D  there is one about a half mile above me that has newspapers from WWI on the walls. If you keep the wood dry it works. Tulip poplar, yellow poplar, tends to open up a wide check as it dries which is why most log home companies shy away from it.

8% is the emc for ~35%RH if memory serves. I've metered the wood in the house in the winter and that is where I bottom out around Feb. There is good reason for drying below the in service emc slightly, joints tighten slightly rather than the opposite and there is a hysteresis, lagging effect, you will stay slightly on whichever side of emc you approach it from. the wood is slightly more stable on the dryer side if you can get there. In the summer we will run up to 15%emc and higher for short periods, I'd really rather be lagging then. These are ideals, I've had to nail stuff up the next day and have also had the luxury of building a sauna on site... dry kiln  ;D There are houses where I've thought "good enough" and gone back later to more shrinkage than I liked. In shops we would accept up through 12% before sending a truck back.

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2017, 09:07:38 pm »
Tulip Poplar is our "go to" for B&B siding, but you want to avoid roof runoff spatter with any species.
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Offline drobertson

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2017, 10:27:22 pm »
As clear as much of the poplar I've seen sawn at the shoot outs at the Paul Bunyan shows, I have to believe I would and many folks around here would have made good use of the wood.  Now the sawing like went on at the shoot outs? well, it would not have flown very far here, but, what  I witnessed the wood act much like SYP but has the deciduous characteristics. I've never sawn a lick of it, but really wanted to, and all I have to say is if a house is to be built, and the codes allow it, then with some proper planning it can be done with much less cost than going through the lumber yards.  Now time is somewhat of a factor, so time has to be considered,,,and then considered again. And not only that, the amounts of crap you might see culled at your local lumber yard,,the stuff that may be on top or the real bad thrown off to the side,, well figure on this happening with anything you saw out.  The ones that accomplish the task,, start to finish, and dried finished interiors, Well, it is a prize to show off in my book, you can do it, but be ready for set backs and disappointments along the way.  Knowing whats ahead helps a little on being ready for what you about to arrive to and face. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Building a house with a sawmill
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2017, 05:34:06 am »
W Pine here works well for siding. We have poplar here, I have cut tons of it, For me here I have no market for it. And I think it smells bad. :D :D
I have cut timbers for customers [customers logs] and I have seen 6x6 timbers twist while cutting on the mill. :o
Having a sawmill is a handy tool to have, Opens a lot of doors for you.
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
http://www.forestryforum.com/sanbornton     NH Timberland Owners Association supporter.
And a license NH soft wood grader.
Sawing since 1987