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Author Topic: Wood Processor on the Slide  (Read 3452 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2017, 12:57:51 am »


Here is my inspiration (via Lopet):
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)



Kinda like my limb trimmer.  Land clearing produces so much thin rounds ive nearly quit using my maul.



Knobs do get hung up in the rack so you gotta get tight on the trimming.  I can imaging a belt may help.  For me its being able to stand erect and not lug saw around or trip on rolling pins.  Much less bending down and fatigue overall. 

Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2017, 04:32:03 pm »
The mainframe was laid out and structurally reviewed.  I wanted to take a look at the existing mast frame's available capacity for the purpose of splitting.  I was intending to use a 30 ton (approx.) splitting ram.  When I ran the first case I found a clear result of complete failure of the proposed arrangement.  The below case was a no "safety factored" load - only intended usage loading. (See Pic 13)  The log-splitter would rip it apart! 

 

 
Pic 13

So rather than attempting to rework or strengthen the existing (galvanized) parts,  a different splitting layout was investigated and found to be acceptable for the intended usage. (See Pic 14)

 

 

Pic 14

The case above shows near survival of a 50 ton "factored load". This should work for our purpose.     
It became clear the intense power of a 30 ton splitter ram and the required frame to support it!

This substantial design change also allowed the lowering of the whole assembly by 16" with the removal of the rear mast section.  (See Pic 15)

 

 

Pic 15

A small but significant change was made to the welded mast sections before the remainder of the build could be completed.

Easy does it

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2017, 04:47:41 pm »


Here is my inspiration (via Lopet):
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)









Kinda like my limb trimmer.  Land clearing produces so much thin rounds ive nearly quit using my maul.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Knobs do get hung up in the rack so you gotta get tight on the trimming.  I can imaging a belt may help.  For me its being able to stand erect and not lug saw around or trip on rolling pins.  Much less bending down and fatigue overall.

I am in the same spot guys, lots of thinnings. 

Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2017, 05:15:55 pm »


Here is my inspiration (via Lopet):
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)





Kinda like my limb trimmer.  Land clearing produces so much thin rounds ive nearly quit using my maul.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Knobs do get hung up in the rack so you gotta get tight on the trimming.  I can imaging a belt may help.  For me its being able to stand erect and not lug saw around or trip on rolling pins.  Much less bending down and fatigue overall.

It is with large part this size of wood that got me working on this machine in the first place.  I have made several rigs in the past (not quite as fancy as that) like you have there and found them to work very well.  Cheers to the inventors.  Thanks for your pics. 
Easy does it

Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2017, 02:05:20 pm »
My plan was to get a working prototype for proof of concept.  I had on hand some spare parts from a hydraulic system including a tank, fittings, hoses, and a test engine.  A set of hydraulic cylinders could be spec'd out once the details of the saw sliding frame and lever arm were created.  I now had a preliminary layout (per Pic 15 above); which included some completed engineering analysis and some theoretical design with basic rough calculations.  The mainframe was fabricated in my shop along with the saw/engine sliding frame.  I modified the mainframe per the analysis results (tube thicknesses and bracing) see pic 16.  The sliding frame concept was also analyzed and fabrication was begun (see pic 17).  There would be several changes to this design; first as the fabrications were fit; and then as operations were monitored.   

 

  

Pic 16

 

 

Pic 17

I was not too concerned with photos at this phase of fabrication.  The only ones I have are poor background pics and full prototype assembly.  Pic 18 shows the mainframe and the rear of the sliding frame.

 

 

Pic 18

Pic 19 Shows the Sliding Frame (Blade Lever Carriage) from the opposite side.

 

 

Pic 19

Note the as-built changes to the motor mount for the R and D model.  There were many made on the fly and there were more to come for the final working version.  Also note the blue centrifugal belt clutch in Pic 19.  This was added in this R and D cycle for ease of operation (sourced from Ebay: http://www.ebay.ca/usr/pgsaw  They also provided replacement clutch plates when asked for spares). 
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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2017, 10:26:06 am »
The final critical component that was analyzed, considered, and reconsidered was the large blade lever.  This device was an important design based on safety, operation, and maintenance. There were very important design assumptions made based on the potential risks of failure.  Shaft sizing and placement along with other mounting positions were part of this requirement.  Pic 19 and 20 show the first concept layout for the lever design.  A sample results plot is shown in Pic 21.

 

 

Pic 19

 

 

Pic 20

 

 

Pic 21
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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 12:42:00 pm »
Here comes a perfect example of how something can work on paper and be quite full of issues when put into practice (or into trials).  The fabrication was completed to match Pic 15 (above).  There was also a shield added to the blade.  (You can see in Pic 22 and 23 below).  The action of the arm and movement of the sliding frame allowed far too much movement in the blade shaft and blade itself.  It would start to wobble and was contacting the guard on one side.  This was very bad for the blade sharpness  :-\ and also appeared quite unsafe.  Very quickly the lever arm went back to the drawing board. 
The proposed design had been a "cantilevered" shaft support.  This was quickly found to be too much weight and loading on the single arm support (and shaft) and so a reworked design was fabricated to provide the blade with support on both sides.  (simply suppported).  The rework is show in Pics 22 and 23   

 

 

Pic 22

 

 

Pic 23

This way the blade movement was limited to the pivot bearing tolerance and the flexure of the main lever arm.  The change made a world of difference to the performance!
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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 05:32:07 pm »
The processor model sliding frame was updated with some of the as-built changes to the original engine support and the load runner bracing.  The model was also reviewed for the required loading.  See Pic 24 and 25.

 

 

Pic 24

 

 

Pic 25
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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 12:20:46 am »
I have a quick very preliminary video of the processor's first test.  It was a long development process and this video is only provided as a proof of concept.  There are many more safety features that have been added to the machine since this was shot.  It is poor quality so I spruced it up abit.  I will update with better quality videos as the final components are added to the machine.  There were also a number of improvements made to the cycle time.  Keep in mind this is a 15hp machine!



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Offline hedgerow

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 03:09:28 pm »
jmur1
keep the pictures and videos coming. I away's enjoy homemade wood processing machines.

Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2017, 11:04:19 am »
jmur1
keep the pictures and videos coming. I away's enjoy homemade wood processing machines.

Thanks hedgerow
I appreciate the interest.  I have read many of the posts in the forum and value the work done.

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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2017, 11:07:37 am »
Below in Pic 25 is the completed testing assembly.  I have made major revisions since this build and will share some of these findings in the following days - so any "would-be" builders can save the cost of the same mistakes.

 

 

Pic 25

I ran somewhere around two double-trailer loads through this arrangement.  (I'm told 14 bush cord each).  Anywhere between 8" to 20".  No where near full time usage but definitely a good sample for design purposes.  See Pic 26 for some of the wood.

 

    

Pic 26

Machine Background
15 hp Gas Engine.
1:1 Ratio belted pump driver
Several different pumps were run with moderate differences in performance.
16 gpm/4 gpm (3000 psi max)
22 gpm/6 gpm (3000 psi max)
22 gpm/4.8 gpm (3000 psi max)

Splitter Knife

The most time consuming (from failure) and critical design change was made to the Splitter knife.  It is very important to allow for enough space and provide direction for the split wood.  If the design includes more than quarters (four piece split) then be prepared to design for a movement away from the center point with a free path up and out.  After multiple failed attempts I was left with two versions that have since performed well. 

The first knife used 6" x 3/4" thick plate horizontal and vertical wings and had several revisions to stiffen the wings to survive all the knots encountered.  See Pic 27

 

 

Pic 27

The second knife used 8" x 1" thick plate horizontal and 1 1/4" vertical .  See Pic 28

 

 

Pic 28

   
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Offline dave_dj1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2017, 07:19:30 pm »
Looks good, I can't wait to see a video of it in action.

Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 08:36:09 pm »
Looks good, I can't wait to see a video of it in action.

Hi dave_dj1:
Just a couple of small items to finish off on the build.  Then I will break out the video.   
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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 08:50:23 pm »
I have a quick comment on the design of the wood delivery chute.  I had originally kept it level with the surface under the splitter knives.  I soon realized that the wood split and moved in all directions.  It is advisable to provide lots of space to avoid interference with the chute body.  Both designs of knife assemblies would occasionally send the wood downward, binding with the chute floor.  This would then cause the two stage pump circuit to drop into high pressure mode.  The extra waiting time is painfull and unnecessary.  I redesigned the chute several inches lower and much of the problem was corrected.  See Pic 29.  I still need to add holes to the chute floor the remove scraps.  As you can see from the photo my splitter ram runs on two rails (not a center guide).  It has its benefits - I will cover it next.

 

        

Pic 29
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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2017, 03:40:31 pm »
Here are my comments on the design of the sliding ram plate.  I wanted this machine to be capable of 20" logs.  So far it is really only good to 19" with this two rail design.  I came up with it based on my desired machine height and the various available parts (access system masts).   It definitely works very well with non-square cuts (when a log has bends in it).  It does experience extremely high side loads when misaligned or "bad" split logs are come across.  I have progressed from a simple I-Beam trolley assembly wheel (rated at 1000 lbs), to a heavy load runner (rated at 30,000 lbs) , to basic heavy plate guides.  Only now am I comfortable with the functioning result.  See Pic 30 for the I beam roller; See Pic 31 for the load runner layout; and finally see Pic 32 for the plate guides.   

 

 

Pic 30

 

 

Pic 31

 

 

Pic 32

A nice side benefit of this layout is the log stand.  I fabricated 2 spring loaded hinged plates where the log cuts land after the cut.  This locates them 95% of the time in the center of the splitter.  It also absorbs vertical movement from bad split logs.  The sawdust and small chunks can also pass through here.  See Pic 33

 

 

Pic 33

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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 11:18:30 am »
The hydraulic circuit was another carefully reviewed topic.  In the interest of maximizing speed and efficiency some additional components were added that have a significant return on investment. 

I had chosen the larger 5" splitter cylinder with the intent of splitting large (up to 20") logs into six.  It was after some time that I had issues with this cylinder from the above-mentioned side loading of the ram plate.  The 2" cylinder ram had bent one day on a knotty log that I really should have pitched out.  (I want to make this thing bullet proof so I have a habit of excessive testing).  smiley_lit_bulb At this point I thought why not increase the size of the ram as much as possible to reduce the amount of oil moving through the cylinder.  This would improve strength and increase speed. So I went to my local hydraulic shop and asked them to look at making the ram 3" or 3 1/2".  They came back after a couple of days and said that 3" is possible but 3 1/2" would be too much off the inner supports.  So I had this done.  See Pic 34.

   

 

Pic 34

I had been following another online inventor who claimed a piloted check valve for the return-to-tank line on the splitter cylinder is a good way to improve the speed of travel and thus reduce cycle time.  I added this valve to mine and then thought why not on the split cycle as well.  (Couldn't hurt).  I did this and can confirm a notable improvement.  I currently have the 22gpm/4.8gpm pump installed and measured the unloaded and cold out stroke at 10 seconds and the return stroke at 8 seconds.  See Pic 35 and 36

 

 

Pic 35

 

 

Pic 36
   
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Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2017, 12:55:09 pm »
Just recently I updated my log stop from a basic spring-hose vertical line.  Originally I had approached the log stop as an ability to fine tune the cuts length to end up with a nice final cut that would be full size.  I had been using it without issue.  When I started selling wood I soon realized that some customers are not flexible with the concept of average stick lengths.  I have also been selling different sizes down to 12" long; so usually I can get 12" piece and then the waste is reduced.  This led me to create a solid stop.  I had also noted several other machines had invested alot of effort designing and installing custom devices to remove the stop as the cut was made to allow a free fall into the splitter bay.  I decided to start with a solid stop to see if the circular machine would act any differently (although the big circular machines definitely have a retracting system).  Another chain machine on this forum was using a solid stop without issue. 
Very quickly I had major issues with the solid stop - only about 1 in 5 were falling as they did before.  I thought over a solution and after abit of tweaking it works very well.  It may very well have been already done somewhere else, but here it is.  See Pics 37,38, and 39

 

 

Pic 37

 

 

Pic 38

 

 

Pic 39

To summarize it is basically a "hoe" shaped stopper (note: the vertical limit of the stop plate must be below the horizontal centerline of the pin so that when it pivots down it moves away from the log).  It is hinged and spring supported above the lever.  The spring holds it just below horizontal as seen it the images.  This works very well overall.  Only a couple of times has it kicked out the log so far.  I have run it for several hours like this.  I have also immediately noted a big processing speed increase.  You don't even realize how much time is wasted locating the logs with the flexible line method until you change it.
     
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Offline Tim

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2017, 06:41:44 am »
What is the design software that you are using?
Eastern White Cedar Shingles

Offline jmur1

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Re: Wood Processor on the Slide
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2017, 07:32:58 pm »
What is the design software that you are using?

Hi Tim:
The software is Pro/E which is these days called CREO.

https://www.ptc.com/en/cad/3d-design/parts-and-assembly-modeling

jmur1
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