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Author Topic: Timberking B-16 rebuild  (Read 1647 times)

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Offline alan gage

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Timberking B-16 rebuild
« on: August 01, 2017, 12:52:40 pm »
For years I've thought I'd enjoy a sawmill but could never justify it to myself. But this year I tried real hard and made up enough good reasons to convince myself buying a mill was a good idea. Or at least not a bad idea. So I started hunting around for cheap manual mills. Being in NW Iowa I figured I'd be driving a long ways to pick one up but while talking to a local guy that has a personal mill he mentioned someone else in town who had an old mill that's been sitting in the weeds for 12+ years and that it was hydraulic. At first I didn't give it much thought as I didn't really want a rebuild but the more I thought about it the more I liked the idea of hydraulics.

So yesterday I met with the guy to look at the mill and by the end of the day I'd written a check and got it pulled back to the shop. The blade covers say Timbermaster and I could find absolutely nothing about them on the internet but after getting it drug out of the weeds and pulled home I finally found a sticker on the trailer saying it was a Timberking B-16, serial# 1507. Looks to be a very early model.







It's got separate motors for the head and hydraulics and both of them are free; hopefully they'll survive. Hydraulic pistons look clean with no pitting. But lots of work to do to get this back into shape. Very much looking forward to the challenge and learning along the way. Unfortunately I'm also in the middle of a house remodel so I can't just dive in whole hog but I'll start chipping away at it soon.

I've called Timberking and they're sending me a manual. I'm assuming that since this is such an early example that there were a lot of changes/upgrades along the way and I'm hoping they can be fairly easily incorporated into the rebuild.

Alan



Offline TKehl

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2017, 01:10:54 pm »
Welcome! 

Looks like a good project!  The steel all looks straight.  I'm betting the head just needs a bit of adjustment.  Be a good time to soak the bolts down in some oil while working on your house.   ;)
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 02:47:43 pm »
Looks like your in for a pile of fun.
I bet you can't sleep at night.
Collector and builder of many things.
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Offline redbeard

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 03:45:31 pm »
Looks good! I don't see the purpose for the safety cage, you will have mill rebuilt by the time it will take you  too shine those blades up. The logo on covers is same design TK uses with the log.
Have you figured out the year yet?
Going to be a fun project. It's a very simple built mill. 
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Offline paul case

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 05:16:12 pm »
I dont think it looks any different than timberkings today. I think the same shape of sticker on the blade guards that now say timberking. Good find. You will like hydraulics.

PC
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Online ladylake

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 06:15:01 pm »

 The new TK mills like the 1600  2000 2200 are a lot different than the  B16 and B20 with lots of improvements.  That said with over 13000 hours on my B20 its been a great mill that doesn't break down much. With the mill you bought I'd get lots of different length 3/8 JIC6 female hoses and some JIC6 male connectors for when a hose breaks, plus some No 40  50  and 60h repair links which covers all of the chains.  Also I replaced the fine thread tensioner screw with 3/4"  6tpi acme screw and nut, huge improvement but certainly not necessary .  When adjusting the blade tracking back the guide wheels off the blade then make sure the blade is level with the deck and the back of the blade is even with the back of the wheels, it should stay the same when turned backwards by hand.  Then adjust the guide rollers so they push the blade down 1/4" and adjust so the flange on the guide rollers is 1/4" behind the back of the blade if you want long blade life. Oil all of the chains up real good. Send a PM with any questions.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline drobertson

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 06:28:29 pm »
Nice find, and local too!  You may be surprised at how little work you have to do, compared to what you may want to do..  that's your call, either way learning the mill from the ground up is a good idea from many stand points.  I may suggest visiting a mill of similar design to view the functions, speeds and such, if not possible hit you tube for some eye ball examples.  Happy for you!  and hoping the best on your house remodel as well,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline alan gage

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 06:41:34 pm »
Just a quick update before I lose internet connectivity for the rest of the day. Had a couple spare hours before leaving work and managed to get both engines running on carb spray. Needed to replace the starter on the 18hp and it's going to need carb work as well (maybe on the 5.5 too) but at least they run and sound good. Great way to end the day.

The mill is going to need all new chains. The links are rusted solid and more than one is broken.

Alan

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 09:49:39 pm »
alan gage,welcome to the forum. And the world of sawing.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline sawmilllawyer

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 11:02:06 pm »
 8) Great find and congratulations on being a sawer!!!
Stihl MS-361, MS-460 mag, Poulan 2150, 2375 Wildthing.

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 12:00:17 pm »
....The mill is going to need all new chains. The links are rusted solid and more than one is broken......

sounds like you are going to need a lot of Bluecreeper for the rusted hardware
https://www.bluecreeper.com/


and here is a link to useful sawmill mods
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,7789.msg1397352/topicseen.html#msg1397352
TimberKing 2000 & Talon Sharpener, Mahindra 5520 4x4, Max22 4x4, Bobcat Excavator 331, E80, Multitek 1610EZ
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Offline crowhill

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 08:01:40 am »
Alan that's a fantastic find! Now you've heard the engines it won't be long before you hear the blade humming!

If anyone is interested in a Timberking B-20 with about 24 hours on it, I saw it listed on Craigslist (Vermont) but it's located I think in Rhode Island.
TimberKing B-20, Kubota M-4900 w/FEL with tooth bar, hyd thumb and forks, Farmi winch, 4 chain saws, 26 chickens and Hereford beef cattle.

Offline reswire

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 10:23:12 pm »
If I'm not mistaken, the b16 was a b20 with a shorter bed.  I believe most parts are interchangeable.  Either way, that was an incredible find, and a very good mill when new.  Timberking will work with you as well as anyone;  you should be up and running in no time at all!  Good luck and happy sawing in the future!
LT 40HDG 35, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 3 Chessies and a Weiner dog...

Offline alan gage

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2017, 03:18:07 pm »
Been picking away at the mill a little at a time. I work at an auto repair shop and I've got it plugging up an extra bay so when I get a little free time I go tinker with it. I've got the 18hp engine running great. The little 5.5 for the hydraulics runs and sounds good but still isn't quite right. Need to pull the carb and hopefully find a piece of debris that made its way back into the main jet. The hydraulics all seem to be working fine but I need to get a pressure gauge installed to be sure the pressure relief valves are working and set correctly. I've always been a fuel injector and computer guy so it's a fun learning experience so far.

I've replaced a lot chain and still need to put new chain on the carriage. All the old chains were rusted up solid and I think only one wasn't broke. I've got new belts on the large blade wheels and new idler wheels installed. I put a blade on it and have tensioned it but still haven't engaged it with the motor running. Tracking looks to be off just a bit and I want to adjust it first. If I could spend some time with it this week I think I could have it ready for sawing by the weekend but I'm getting behind on my house remodel and need to start spending more time with the house and less with the mill.

A couple questions I'm hoping to get some opinions on:

How much effort should it take to move the carriage? I haven't cleaned the rust from the rails yet but it takes a pretty good push from two people (one on each side to keep it from cocking) to move it back and forth. This is with the C-bracket removed that wraps under the rail to keep the carriage from lifting up. With the brackets installed it was very difficult to move the carriage. Hopefully after cleaning the rust from the rails and running it back and forth a few times it will free up but I'm just wondering what I should expect for "normal". And how much pressure should I be seeing when I try running the carriage with the hydraulics?

I installed new v-belts on the big blade pulleys. The belts I got from Timberking were too big (I'm finding quite a few parts on this old mill are different than the newer B-20 models) so I sourced them locally. I could get a B46 belt stretched over the pulley but for the life of me couldn't get the twist out of it. So I went with a B47 which wasn't too hard to get on correctly. The belt seems to fit tight until the blade was tensioned. With a tight blade the belt is a little loose on the side of the pulley not in contact with the blade. Wondering if that's normal or if I need to try harder with the shorter belt.

This trailer has nothing in the way of jacks or other means for leveling and support. I'm thinking I'll just get 6 sidewinder jacks from the hardware store. From looking at videos it appears Timberking is running square tubing under trailer with a round flange on the end that accepts the sidewinder jacks. Sounds like a good solution but would like to hear what others prefer.

Sorry, no new pictures. I promise I'll post some for the next update.

Alan

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2017, 07:18:18 am »
  With the chains hooked up turning the hyd motor the head pushes fairly hard with one person, without the chain it should push easy, if not check the rollers the head rolls on.  The square tubing mounted to the bottom of the frame rails works good for mounting the jack, mount them far enough away from the frame for good clearance when the head rolls by and don't forget to turn them up when moving the mill. I'd run the B46 belts, if you get them over the pulleys the twist will come out using a couple of screwdrivers, use a clamp or big vice grips to keep the wheel from turning.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 07:01:28 pm »
Sounds like you're making good progress.  Keep plugging away at it and you'll be sawing just in time for fall weather.   
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Offline Ben Cut-wright

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2017, 04:08:44 pm »
Been picking away at the mill a little at a time. I work at an auto repair shop and I've got it plugging up an extra bay so when I get a little free time I go tinker with it. I've got the 18hp engine running great. The little 5.5 for the hydraulics runs and sounds good but still isn't quite right. Need to pull the carb and hopefully find a piece of debris that made its way back into the main jet. The hydraulics all seem to be working fine but I need to get a pressure gauge installed to be sure the pressure relief valves are working and set correctly. I've always been a fuel injector and computer guy so it's a fun learning experience so far.

I've replaced a lot chain and still need to put new chain on the carriage. All the old chains were rusted up solid and I think only one wasn't broke. I've got new belts on the large blade wheels and new idler wheels installed. I put a blade on it and have tensioned it but still haven't engaged it with the motor running. Tracking looks to be off just a bit and I want to adjust it first. If I could spend some time with it this week I think I could have it ready for sawing by the weekend but I'm getting behind on my house remodel and need to start spending more time with the house and less with the mill.

A couple questions I'm hoping to get some opinions on:

How much effort should it take to move the carriage? I haven't cleaned the rust from the rails yet but it takes a pretty good push from two people (one on each side to keep it from cocking) to move it back and forth. This is with the C-bracket removed that wraps under the rail to keep the carriage from lifting up. With the brackets installed it was very difficult to move the carriage. Hopefully after cleaning the rust from the rails and running it back and forth a few times it will free up but I'm just wondering what I should expect for "normal". And how much pressure should I be seeing when I try running the carriage with the hydraulics?

I installed new v-belts on the big blade pulleys. The belts I got from Timberking were too big (I'm finding quite a few parts on this old mill are different than the newer B-20 models) so I sourced them locally. I could get a B46 belt stretched over the pulley but for the life of me couldn't get the twist out of it. So I went with a B47 which wasn't too hard to get on correctly. The belt seems to fit tight until the blade was tensioned. With a tight blade the belt is a little loose on the side of the pulley not in contact with the blade. Wondering if that's normal or if I need to try harder with the shorter belt.

This trailer has nothing in the way of jacks or other means for leveling and support. I'm thinking I'll just get 6 sidewinder jacks from the hardware store. From looking at videos it appears Timberking is running square tubing under trailer with a round flange on the end that accepts the sidewinder jacks. Sounds like a good solution but would like to hear what others prefer.

Sorry, no new pictures. I promise I'll post some for the next update.

Alan

Very nice to see you here, Alan.  Do you intend to cut your own canoe materials when you get her going?  Read your thread when you first posted. As usual I was more interested in what a member had to say than I was in reading the name on the post.  Pardon me for my belated welcome to you, from NW Arkansas. 

Offline alan gage

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2017, 11:38:31 am »
Very nice to see you here, Alan.  Do you intend to cut your own canoe materials when you get her going?  Read your thread when you first posted. As usual I was more interested in what a member had to say than I was in reading the name on the post.  Pardon me for my belated welcome to you, from NW Arkansas.

Nice to bump into you here as well. I wondered if we might cross paths. I'd like to build some canoes from my own materials but it's mostly hardwoods around here so I'll probably be using it for thwarts and gunwales mostly. Although if I could find a nice Basswood I could use that for the hull. Or maybe some old cedar telephone poles.

This last weekend was finally the big day. There is still some more work to do tweaking the mill but I wanted to get it out and see what worked and what didn't before spending more time with it. The hydraulic motor is still giving fits and required constant baby sitting but I'm happy to report the actual sawing went very well. Would have liked to sawn more than one small log but the hydraulic motor was frustrating me so I decided to call that good. Now I'm going to try putting the mill on the back burner for a month or so and go back to working on the house. I'm also hoping to close on a few acres of land this week that will give me a place to setup a sawmill shed and lumber storage.

Walked a friends pasture last night and counted 27 dead Bur Oak trees that need to be taken down. Some will be firewood but some nice logs in there too. There's another pasture that probably has another 15 dead ones. Gonna be busy for a while.





Alan

Offline Ben Cut-wright

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2017, 12:27:30 pm »
Very good.  The dead standing Bur Oaks might yield some great looking stuff. Be careful.

I was fortunate to saw some large Post Oak on my last two jobs. Here are a couple pics of book matched slabs. Each slab was 10/4 x nearly 20" wide, nearly 40" across. 




Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Timberking B-16 rebuild
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2017, 12:32:06 pm »
Very good.  The dead standing Bur Oaks might yield some great looking stuff. Be careful.

I was fortunate to saw some large Post Oak on my last two jobs. Here are a couple pics of book matched slabs, 10/4x nearly 20" wide. 

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I could not find the like button.....

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Collector and builder of many things.
I have a
machine shop
Wood work shop
And a Weld shop
And now a saw mill
and a bunch of new forum friends.