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Blade Life Expectancy

Started by Tin Horse, June 01, 2021, 12:46:12 PM

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Tin Horse

For the past several months I've been using the WM 747's. I've been happy with the results as far as speed and accuracy. But blade life seems low. To explain they are 1 1/4" x .055 x 195" 747's. These are the first .055 I've tried. Anything else has been .042" and good life, no cracking.. I'll get maybe 3-4 sharpenings with the 747's. After that major multiple gullet cracks show up. Never had this before. Belts are good, 24" wheels, 35 HP Kubota diesel. Only using in WP. They do seem to cut longer and maybe I'm running to long between sharpening. Using a Cooks sharpener. As noted by others they do loose tips quick on a nail strike.
So long story short I've ordered The turbo 7's in .055 x 1 1/2". Others here seem to prefer these. Also ordered the BMS 250 sharpener.
I've been debating the move to CBN for a long time.
Thoughts???
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

doc henderson

I just got my TK sharpener, and may still be on the learning curve, but pretty luke warm.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Dave Shepard

4-5 sharpenings on .055" is about right.

Edit: I meant to say 3-4 sharpenings was about right. A total of five times on the mill from new. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Magicman

As with any blade, much depends upon how long you sawn between blade changes.  Saw until they are not sharp.  If you run them until they are dull, your blade life will be greatly reduced.  

Yes, there is a difference.  You take care of your blades and your blades will take care of you.

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Southside

I have seen increased life switching from Double Hards to Silver Tip bands, the additional plus is they are cheaper. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Ohioian

I don't have much experience with wood blades, yet! But before I retired recently I spent 25 plus years doing r & r on both bandsaw and carbide tipped circular blades cutting some of the toughest metals made.
  Carbide tipped (cbn) is the most expensive but if your after production, (2 to 3 times faster cutting) is the way to go. Highest cost but high reward, but also high risk when you hit that nail 😤
 Next would be bimetal, carbon backing with high speed steel edge for cutting. Two blade manufacturers are now using powder high speed wire for the cutting edge. About half the cost of carbide but more forgiving.

dgdrls

How long are you running the blades?
I've read articles/guides indicating exactly what you're reporting. lower hook angle blades crack in the gullet after a number of sharpenings,
causes being:  hook angle too low, run too long, sharpening down through the gullet, generating too much heat and taking the temper out of the gullet area.

D








Fern Wood

I'm averaging around 4 sharpenings  on turbo 7's , .055. Using cbn wheel.

Tin Horse

Quote from: dgdrls on June 01, 2021, 08:46:00 PM
How long are you running the blades?
I've read articles/guides indicating exactly what you're reporting. lower hook angle blades crack in the gullet after a number of sharpenings,
causes being:  hook angle too low, run too long, sharpening down through the gullet, generating too much heat and taking the temper out of the gullet area.

D
Working alone a band would run maybe 2 hrs; 5 to 6 medium size WP. Cutting mainly 1" x 10". I sticker and stack each board as I go. Blade engagement stays on on my mill unlike others. Now wondering if blade is running more than .055" likes even on 24" wheels. I do lite sharpening but the cam match to profile isn't perfect. This is partially why I'm switch to CBN.
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

Tin Horse

Quote from: Southside on June 01, 2021, 08:01:01 PM
I have seen increased life switching from Double Hards to Silver Tip bands, the additional plus is they are cheaper.
I agree; But WM rep. felt I wouldn't get much life out of the silver tip. ( I realize others on here are prefering them) The other issue is wait times in Ontario. Stocked sizes about 2 weeks. Anything else about 2 months. They mainly stock 10 degree for the majority. I was going to go for .045" as a compromise in T7 but would take longer on order. 
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

Chuck White

I've always used 1¼x158x.045 Wood-Mizer Double Hards.

On average I'll get 12-18 sharpenings, doing a light sharpen, and not necessarily getting the full gullet!

I'm very satisfied with these results, as are some locals that I sharpen for!

I always disengage the blade when gigging back to the front!

The engagement time of the blade also affects blade-life!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Tin Horse

Quote from: Chuck White on June 02, 2021, 07:06:13 AM
I've always used 1¼x158x.045 Wood-Mizer Double Hards.

On average I'll get 12-18 sharpenings, doing a light sharpen, and not necessarily getting the full gullet!

I'm very satisfied with these results, as are some locals that I sharpen for!

I always disengage the blade when gigging back to the front!

The engagement time of the blade also affects blade-life!
Thanks and I agree. I felt the .045 would be a good choice also but for availability here. Also I think now your also right about blade engagement time. My mill is wired remote accept for manual lever to idler at engine. I generally stay at the front. This method seemed to work well with the .042 band. 
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

Tin Horse

Thanks all for help and comments, especially southside. Greatly appreciated. Gonna try the silvertips.
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

scsmith42

On my Baker I've discovered that anything more than 2 hours of rotating time on the mill will result in gullet cracks. Usually I'm pulling them off while they are still sharp in order to minimize losses due to breaking.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

bannerd

Blade life depends on so many things, dirty bark, lubricant, the degree of set (less or more heat), blade tension. I own a TK sharper and I run a 40 degree on the front and back of the tooth.  There is a set nylon block from TK that works but a little more inward degree keeps that gullet clean and moves the wood faster out of the channel.

Generally go through 3-4 pines before a blade will go on the sharpener.

barbender

I don't get good life out of .055" blades, 3-4 sharpenings and they go boom! I personally don't buy the "grind the micro-crack out of the gullet" theory, to stop the failures. I think they are only going to make it around the wheels so many times before metal fatigue gets them. Usually bands are hard to break by hand, to get them in smaller chunks to dispose of. When the .055 (and .050) break, the whole blade is fatigued to the point where I can fold them and they easily break at the fold. The metal is ready to just crumble.
  I'll second the Silvertips. They cut just as well as the Doublehards with better flex life, they're cheaper, and you can also get them from secondary blade sellers if WM is backed up.
Too many irons in the fire

YellowHammer

I have switched completely to Silver Tips over Double Hards. Lower price, much better flex life, cut just as long or longer.  Win/win/win

I use .055 x 1.5" on an LT70

   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Tin Horse

Quote from: YellowHammer on June 03, 2021, 12:13:00 PM
I have switched completely to Silver Tips over Double Hards. Lower price, much better flex life, cut just as long or longer.  Win/win/win

I use .055 x 1.5" on an LT70

 
As I type that's the one I'm trying to get here in Ontario. Getting a price by southside suggestion.
Bell 1000 Wood Processor. Enercraft 30HTL, Case 580SL. Kioti 7320.

KenMac

I run Cook's Super Sharp 8* .055x1 1/2 blades and have found that if I just hit tips on front and back instead of following entire profile I can get 3 or 4 sharpenings. If I follow the entire profile and just barely clean up the gullet most blades will crack in the gullets and break during the next use. This is not a scientific study but has happened often enough to convince me to sharpen the bare minimum to get longer blade life. Y'all taikng about these silver tips has me thinking about trying them if Cook's can supply a cam for my Cat's Claw.
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

barbender

I remember in one of Cook's tech sharpening tip articles the brother that writes them was saying he thinks a lot of gullet cracks come from too heavy of a grind in the gullet getting the metal hot enough that it air hardens, makes sense to me.
Too many irons in the fire

Tacotodd

I'm "assuming" similar to what happens when you're at the grinder to long with a chainsaw chain. 
Trying harder everyday.

SawyerTed

I tended to run my blades too long in the beginning.  I ran my blades until they created a problem.  About 1/4 of my lumber had sawing quality issues like waves on the face or edge, ridges from teeth being out of set, and "snipe" at the beginning of a cut.

When I started sharpening my own, I started changing blades more often.  Blade life and board feet per blade over the blade's life have gone up.  Fewer blades break early in their life, I can cut consistently faster, the mill runs better and the lumber is better. Sharpening is faster and doesn't wear the CBN wheel as fast.  More frequent blade changes also helps eliminate the production of embarrassing lumber.

I had to convince myself that blades are like paper towels, they will only last so long and they are cheap enough to change as necessary.  Blades are like oil filters, running one too long just creates problems so I change them often.  The expense of changing a blade that's still cutting ok is more than made up in quality of the lumber and customer satisfaction (repeat customers and referrals).  

It's the blade and the individual teeth where the the action is, all the rest of the sawmill apparatus is there to put the blade in the log at sufficient speed and with sufficient support to cut true.  A dull blade defeats all that other apparatus and makes "designer firewood" (a commonly used Forum term that I borrowed from somewhere).

There's a point at which a blade is still sharp and not yet dull, that's the point at which to change it.  Learning that point makes for better sawing.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

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