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Feller buncher head on dozer?

Started by mike_belben, July 23, 2017, 08:48:00 AM

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mike_belben

I have a case 450 crawler loader with a drott 4 in 1 bucket and removeable extendahoe that ill be putting forks and a thumb on eventually to use as a log loader.  (It is up north right now, i moved south this year)

I got to thinking how handy it would be if i could rig up a shear style feller head for it to deal with smaller cull trees in a thinning.  I am a chainsaw and wedge guy so a huge amount of time and sweat can go into getting a goofy leaner not to damage crop trees.  i could be dramatically more productive with the ability to push them over the other way and lob off. 

I did a bunch of google searching and havent seen a single example of a feller head on a crawler chassis.  Is this just a terrible idea?
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BargeMonkey

 Ive seen some 953s with a hotsaw, it can be done. Shear heads are just extremely heavy so you want to watch or maybe add a counter weight on the back. 

Maine logger88

They used to make a shear head to go on 350jd dozers I am told. No idea how well they worked
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Logger RK

Around my way there was some JD 450's with Morbark 15 inch shear head. They worked pretty good.

Riwaka

Rockland Manufacturing used to make a dozer shear head.
http://www.timberlinemag.com/articledatabase/view.asp?articleID=1225
http://www.cdrecycler.com/product/xl25-tree-saw-29545/

Most of the machinery is specialised now - felling trees should have forestry spec cab, forestry spec hydraulics, cooling etc.
Probably find a used tracked Bell Super T or Bell TH120  (with saw heads) depending on tree size etc. wheeled feller buncher etc

tree shear for skid steer  http://www.dymaxinc.com/attachments/by-type/?CatID=47  (cast for strength etc)
https://youtu.be/vXtig-xgerw

mike_belben

Id be building it, nothing too crazy.  Intended primarily to speed up crop tree release and reduce damage incidents, typically 12" dbh and smaller hardwoods.   The drott buckets are pretty hefty themselves and id hope i could make a comparable weight shear.   My backhoe comes off in a few minutes, and ive got a winch off a 5ton mil truck for counterweight.  If thats not heavy enough ill build a grapple.   I have a single arch and kinshofer rotator from a material handler that will place the counterweight much further back.  It would be incredible to fell and skid a tree without getting off the machine.

I considered a circle saw but the hydraulics to run it might take a little too much flow from the other functions, and case crawlers are pretty clumsy to drive.  I figured with crescent shear knives i could just leave the gearbox in neutral and let the blades pull the  tractor in, then dump it over.   Shear is easier and cheaper to fab than circle or barsaw as well

Ive never run a buncher.  When carrying a cut tree, does the tree butt rest on the saw/shear or are the grabber arms able to hold the entire weight up without sliding down?

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mike_belben

Quote from: Riwaka on July 23, 2017, 06:28:41 PM
Rockland Manufacturing used to make a dozer shear head.
http://www.timberlinemag.com/articledatabase/view.asp?articleID=1225

Most of the machinery is specialised now - felling trees should have forestry spec cab, forestry spec hydraulics, cooling etc.
Probably find a used tracked Bell Super T or Bell TH120  (with saw heads) depending on tree size etc. wheeled feller buncher etc

Thanks for the info, i will look into their setup.   



after screening and maybe some gussets i reckon my cab is sufficient.  Id still get out and hand saw anything big enough for a sawlog.  Probably use the machine for a high push on backleaners etc.




   Its the pulp i need to speed up.  I cant break even hand cutting it at $19/ton but it needs to come out nonetheless.

Id love a bell but im done buying machines until im swimming in disposable income, which is probably wishful thinking.   
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coxy

  nice looking loader   do you have any trouble keeping the tracks on the loader in the woods with out rock/track guides  on it    around here  with all the rocks and steep ground the tracks would be off in a matter of minutes  :) 

mike_belben

Thanks.  Ive only run that machine about 8 hours.  It lived inside a building in brooklyn NY its entire life except when on the job.  I got for $7500 with new UC.  Trucked it to my dads in massachusetts and havent hauled it to TN yet.  Would be $15-20k here if you could ever find one.  I bought a d31P-18 down here to do my homesite and its what i log with.  Where im at theres lots of buried ledge but its rarely exposed.  There are very few random boulders like NH.  Clay is pretty nice riding for a dozer.  We do have a lot of hills and hollars, best oaks are always over the side of a steep bluff of coarse.

Ive only had the bottom rolls start to come out once but it was the high side in a way off camber situation and id let the tensioners get a little sloppy.  No trouble with rocks in the track. 

No winch yet, i pull logs out backwards with blade.  Its fine in good timber but terribly slow with pulp and pallet.  And my loader is so clumsy with short logs.  Its easier for me to shuffle whole trees than 9ft ties.



I own a machine shop thats still in storage up north.   bought the forklift here for $3500 delivered in order to unload my containers full of shop stuff since i have no building or house here yet. Ran out of money, we live in a camper and i had to start logging.




Our summers are horrible with heat, ticks and snakes but our winters dont freeze so dozer logging just makes sense to me.  Cant make money digging yourself out. And cant do anything but skid with a skidder.  I do ponds, roads, pads, clearings etc all with the komatsu.

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BargeMonkey

 I started out with a Case / Drott shear, also had a Hydro Ax with a shear head for a little bit. In 12" wood on decent ground you probably will be ok with that machine but it doesnt take much to go for a ride. Normally on a shear head your arms will hold the tree, depends if your running an accumulator for grabbing alot of small stuff. The problem with a shear is youve got to stay on top of your knife adjustments and keep them sharp, mine where set to about 1/8 gap, if you dont cut all the way thru and try to rip it off the stump your going to crack a knife or break something, i learned this the hard way one winter. I see these shears for the skidsteers and laugh, a 16" poplar thats decent size will flop that expensive toy in a heartbeat and smash the machine up, another attachment that means well but is limited. If i was going to build a buncher head on the cheap with easily sourced replacable parts i would half copy a timbco barsaw head, so much faster and less frustration at the end of the day, even if you wanted to cut and push some 20" timber you would be ok as long as you let go in time 😂 ive seen a couple shear heads around, keep my eye open for something that goes for less than scrap price, the stuff is around, even if you just had a frame to build off.

mike_belben

Thanks for the info, gives me more to consider.
Scrap is how i got most of my building material.  Waaay too much of it. 

Perhaps a single crescent cutter blade would be wiser to avoid alignment hassle of a twin blade.  I made a miniature single blade shear for the garden tractor to grab and lift fenceposts and also pull out poison ivy roots that works really well.   Could scale it up.

Id be using open center controls in series with the existing valves.  I picture me bending barsaws by being overwhelmed with levers in the heat of the moment.   I cant really afford too much of that.

What do you think about using relief valves to ensure that a tree which is going over that will dump the machine, is flung free?  Or atleast curled all the to the ground?
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Gearbox

Shear on a small dozer ? You will get good at setting it back up . In the late 60 they were putting shears on lots of small stuff . Clip off a 10 in tree back onto a stump over you go . Only thing you can do is turn loose of the tree fast and let it fall where it may . That may be on top of the dozer .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

BargeMonkey

 Relief valves or not, like gearbox said your going to go for a ride at somepoint, at the minimum i would put screens and you know the round foam pipe insulation ??? In the cab, not to sound funny but im 1/2 blind in my left eye from banging my head in a machine. I dont think the single knife will work in HW, plus you would need a wicked cylinder and if you dont shear it off and she lays 1 way even if the arms are open and the butt catches your going with it. You will bend a couple bars getting the hang of it, 3/4 bars are actually pretty cheap when you compare them for "useful life" compared to a .404, you could fabricate a small barsaw head using 1/2 the steel, 1/2 the weight, the weight of the head is whats going to hurt. You could do it with 1-2 circuits and an electric solenoid valve, ive actually got a valve off a loader head sitting here if you get serious i would give you, still some parts off that stripped timbco head i bought kicking around.

mike_belben

Alright, i guess ill add a seat belt then!  In my mind i dont plan on trying to carry trees but id probably get cocky eventually.  Wont be the first toy ive flipped.

Thanks for the kind offer BM, i wouldnt mind looking at how theyre built upclose.  Ill trade ya an afternoons labor for a schooling.  I pass that way every few months.  My projects are always a few years of sketching and collecting before they begin.  This one is probably 4 years out.

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Logger RK

I'd keep a eye out for one of them Morbarks if your not in a hurry. My Brother bought one at a neighbor's auction for $500. His son put it on his Cat Skidsteer. For around there farm it's been pretty handy. I have a Hydro Ax with a 16 inch Ax head. If he wasn't looking for one I would of bid on it for a spare,or future project. They use there's a good amount to cut RXR ties for there boiler. And yes,always wear a seat belt when shearing. Or at least I do because my old iron don't have air conditioning,so in the summer the doors are open. And iv had experienced a few times going over.

mike_belben

Whats the easiest way to roll them? Is it grabbing too much tree and going forward with it, or grabbing one with lots of sidelean and getting flopped on your door?  Id imagine stumps can wreak all sorts of havoc.
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Logger RK

Going over to the side. Either a stump or steep ground.Usually if I'm cutting a 16 inch 6 sticker I'll just throw it in front of me. I only have a 311,so it's not real big. I do have a old C4 with a directional shear that'll cut up to a 22 inch tree. But it just cuts it & drops it away from the machine. Anything bigger then that & it's the 066 to take them down.

mike_belben

Yeah thats a lot bigger than i expect to fiddle with.  I figure 12" dbh on down makes up 30-50% of the junk i need to cut out of these high graded sites to restablish them for productive forestry. 

Im a one man show doing odd job logging and dirtwork on residential back 40s and 14s for now.  Vine tangles, dark thickets, widowmakers, scrub and blowdown. 

If a small buncher lets me just push some of the culls away from the keepers without trudging through the ivy and briars it'd be a way easier life and i could fix more acres for my kids to cut some day.
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