gypsy moth catepillers and oak trees

Started by Jim_Rogers, July 18, 2017, 03:47:22 PM

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Jim_Rogers

To all:
I was recently told that there is a tree fertilizer that can be sprinkled around an oak tree to change the "taste" of the oak leaves so that the gypsy moth caterpillars won't eat the leaves and kill the tree.
Has anyone heard of this product?

He also told me it takes three years of defoliating the tree to kill it.

Is this true?

I've just had the second year here, and don't really want to loose some of my oak trees.

Thanks
Jim Rogers 
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Ron Wenrich

I never heard of any fertilizer that would alter the taste to the caterpillars.  I believe they used to spray bt for caterpillar control.  The moth moved through our area back in the '70s.   Since then, we've had some spotty outbreaks, but nothing that would be considered critical.

3 years of defoliation usually leads to some heavy mortality.  A lot depends on the condition of the stand.  If there's lots of stress, you'll get mortality and at a high rate.  We always noticed that the black oak had a higher mortality rate than the red oak.  Chestnut oak also was a bit higher.  Dominant trees were also more apt to survive than codominant or suppressed trees.  Seems that the moth population collapses after 3 years, as there is less to feed on. 

If you're talking about yard trees, they used to hang a piece of burlap around an oak tree.  The caterpillars would climb inside the material on their way up the tree.  The burlap would be taken down and the caterpillars would be shaken into a bucket of diesel, then rehung.  Its not practical in a woodlot. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

thecfarm

Just sold some BT to a guy for a few fruit trees yesterday. But that was only 2-3 trees and the trees are not 80 feet tall.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jim_Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

ESFted

BT=Bacillus thuringiensis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis

Back in the early sixties I worked for the Agricultural Research Service Plant Pest Control branch.  My job was to place pheromone based tanglefoot traps in a one-half mile grid all over a couple of counties in upstate NY along the St. Lawrence river.  In the summer of 62 I trapped the first known Gypsy Moth in upstate NY....they later swept down the Hudson river valley leaving a trail of destruction behind.
S.U.N.Y. College of Environmental Science and Forestry '65
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Jim_Rogers

Quote from: ESFted on July 19, 2017, 10:44:53 AM
BT=Bacillus thuringiensis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis

Back in the early sixties I worked for the Agricultural Research Service Plant Pest Control branch.  My job was to place pheromone based tanglefoot traps in a one-half mile grid all over a couple of counties in upstate NY along the St. Lawrence river.  In the summer of 62 I trapped the first known Gypsy Moth in upstate NY....they later swept down the Hudson river valley leaving a trail of destruction behind.

thanks for that.
Jim
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

bdsmith

BT=Bacillus thuringiensis is commonly used by organic gardeners.  Available as a powder at most plant nurseries.  Walmart probably has it.

thecfarm

Just so Jim knows we sell it in a concentrated liquid too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

derhntr

Years back I had a bad infestation. It was to late in the life cycle for BT to be effective according to the crop duster. I am thinking it was late June or early July. Crop duster suggested Seven. Cost was less than $200 for the 40 acres. Was super effective, bonus was the skeeter kill as well.   
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petefrom bearswamp

Wow 200 for 40 acres.
Seven is bad for honeybees.
I had my 57 acres sprayed in the late 80s cost 1000 bucks
But my forest was the only green one on that hillside.
BT was used.
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Jim_Rogers

Thanks for all your advice.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Here is a picture of a tree just outside my door at my sawmill shop/office.
A week ago it was bare.
Now new leafs are growing again.

I'll take another picture next week to see how big the leafs are then.



  

It would appear that this tree is "re-budding" and creating new leafs. I don't remember whether it did last year or not.
The tree behind it with full leafs is a maple. Caterpillars didn't touch it.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Ron Wenrich

They'll keep on resetting buds and releafing as long as they have the energy.  A lot depends on how much other stress the tree has.  Sites that were on the south side of a mountain always seemed to have more mortality due to the drier conditions.  Other factors include soil conditions.  If it's thin, there may not be as much available nutrients.  I believe you're having a pretty good year as far as weather goes, so that should be a plus.

We had a stand that had a gypsy moth attack in the spring.  It leafed out again, only to be attacked by oak leaf roller in the summer.  That was the end of the oaks.  Not enough time to rebud.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.