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Considering engine replacement

Started by kelLOGg, July 15, 2017, 09:40:58 PM

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ladylake



  My 3 cylinder 29HP Isuzu is right at 300# with the radiator and all of the fluids, I'm thinking that 18HP Yanmar is quite a bit smaller so maybe just over 200#.  You can mount a windup garage door opener on your mill to help lift the extra weight.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

sawmilllawyer

Yanmar diesel motors are the standard in the nautical industry, very dependable, durable, long lasting engines. Like said above weight might be an issue. Just my two cents.
Stihl MS-361, MS-460 mag, Poulan 2150, 2375 Wildthing.

kelLOGg

Maybe I misunderstood my friend but I think he said it was a "gas" engine. Looking on Yanmar's site I see they make only diesel.  >:( I'm really not up to more sawmill mods to make a heavy diesel work. I'll stick to gas.
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Banjo picker

We run yanmars on spray trucks.  You really got to watch them...they burn so little fuel you will forget to check the tank.. That would be a nice engine to have there Bob.  But i am only a tiny bit from being a hoarder.   Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

BigZ La

Yanmar does make some diesel engines that are aluminum. They are in the smaller hp and used on generators water pumps and such. I would check out what he has and it's weight. They are very fuel efficient.

pineywoods

Going from gas to diesel, the real bear is weight, especially with manual mills. I looked at the options, and elected to stay with gas, BUT, there is another option. Gas engines are set up to run way rich for the extra cooling. Kawasaki makes some liquid cooled V twins that almost as frugal on fuel as a diesel and they weigh about the same as a comparable air cooled engine. To go diesel, you will need to address the weight problem. Do a search on "faster up for older woodmizers" Shows how to add some garage door springs to help the up-down mechanics.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

MbfVA

 I didn't go back through the thread to see what the original poster's needs were, but given the cost and the weight of a diesel, that's a lot of upfront cost & bother unless the usage is going to be heavy enough, no pun intended, to justify the disadvantages.

One additional feature of any liquid cooled engine, is less noise. The disadvantage is the user has to keep up with antifreeze and associated problems.  If it's  going to be your only diesel engine, there's a new fuel supply to keep up with as well.  Wish we could make this simple for you.

I have no knowledge of modern aluminum diesel engines, certainly there have been improvements, new alloys, etc.,  but I can tell you this: heat and aluminum historically do not play well together in the world of internal combustion . I hope they solved that problem  well enough to stand the rigors of diesel.  My mother had a 1962 Oldsmobile F 85 with an aluminum engine which was a hunk of junk. Left us on the side of the road waiting for emergency service several times before we finally ditched it.  The service manager at the dealership admitted that they had replaced more than one warped block and/or head.

Someone with more knowledge of the mechanical world please correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there some problems with the GM diesels of the 1980s related to the materials they were made up?

What happened with the harbor freight option, or am I mixing up my threads?
www.ordinary.com (really)

ladylake

Quote from: kelLOGg on August 03, 2017, 05:29:14 AM
I have a friend who is really into John Deere riding mowers and he says he has a Yanmar 3 cylinder water cooled 18 HP engine on one of his Deeres that he will give me. What do you guys think of Yanmars?

Bob

If I could get that engine free it would be going on my mill, putting a torsion type garage door spring on a mill is no big deal and should lift 150# or so.  I put one  my mill, nice and neat.  Diesels sip fuel with very little problems and have way more torque.  I went from a 27HP Kohler to a 29hp Isuzu, the Isuzu uses 1/2 as much fuel and cuts way faster, plus oil changes are 200 hours vs 50 or 100 for a gas motor.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Kbeitz

There is only one horsepower rating formula for any internal combustion engine, regardless of the fuel type used.
The only real difference is torque of a diesel engine happens at lower rpms .  Horsepower and torque are directly related.
Diesel engines don't rev up very high, so they make less horsepower on average than gas engines.
Gasoline powered engines in garden tractors typically have peak horsepower at about 3000 rpm and horsepower falls off quickly below that . Diesel engines in our compact tractors typically have their peak horsepower at about 1000-1500 rpm and horsepower stays up throughout most of the rpm range. A diesel engine, however, has a much broader power band.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

BigZ La

I checked the dry weight on my Kubota engine in my lawn mower and I was surprised to find out it only weighs 169 lbs. That yanmar may not weigh enough to worry about. Find out the model number and get a dry weight on it. Mine is a 3 cylinder 21 hp.

BigZ La

With a little more time on my hands I checked how much the 3 cylinder engines weigh in the John Deere mowers and to my surprise the heaviest one, the 3TN75 weighs 160 lbs. All the rest were lower weights with many weighing less that  125 LBS. With those weights I definitely would go with a diesel especially if it's free. You could even get the electric clutch to run on them.

SineWave

Quote from: MbfVA on August 04, 2017, 11:30:10 AMI have no knowledge of modern aluminum diesel engines, certainly there have been improvements, new alloys, etc.,  but I can tell you this: heat and aluminum historically do not play well together in the world of internal combustion . I hope they solved that problem  well enough to stand the rigors of diesel.  My mother had a 1962 Oldsmobile F 85 with an aluminum engine which was a hunk of junk. Left us on the side of the road waiting for emergency service several times before we finally ditched it.  The service manager at the dealership admitted that they had replaced more than one warped block and/or head.

Well, lots of Hayabusa riders and F1 drivers would disagree. I think a lot of the kinks have been worked out with aluminum, what with the Nikasil cylinder coatings and whatnot.

One huge advantage of aluminum is that it is waaaaaaaaaaay ahead of cast iron or almost any other material in its thermal conductivity. This is part of what makes it so difficult to weld (you need a large welding power source), but also what makes it good for radiators and for light, high-output engines. It can dump a lot of heat FAST. (You'll realize this if you ever pick up a piece of hot aluminum after welding it.)

You don't want to mis-treat it, though ... it'll still warp like a pretzel and it still gets galvanic corrosion to beat the band, and it's famous for leaving its threads on steel fasteners...but it's not as bad as it used to be in the Corvair days...

Have you boys seen the "race" chainsaws they make out of old aluminum Oldsmobile V-8 engines? 
Now THAT'S a "PREDATOR"!!! smiley_thumbsup_grin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU-kyap7IAE

Darrel

Put a ripping chain on that thing and mount it on an Alaskan chain saw mill and then go to the sawmill shootout!
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

kelLOGg

My friend brought his John Deere mower to me to see if the engine would be suitable for my mill. It is long and narrow so it will fit under the hood of a riding lawn mower and it is 9 inches to long to fit on the mill. It is a gasoline Yanmar. Oh well, nice try.




 
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

JB Griffin

That may not be a bad option yet, Bob. It very well could be a mich better engine than a kohler ( imo, it wouldn't take much)
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

kelLOGg

I am considering a Honda gx series 20HP. It is an easy fit - same bolt pattern as the Kohler.
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

47sawdust

Bob,
I was hoping you would come back to the Honda.My GX670 has been a good performer.Technical support has never been a problem......or needed.Also the red color goes well with your Cook's mill.
Best of luck,Mick
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Kbeitz

Honda's and Kawies are very good engines.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

JB Griffin

As far small gassers go, honda would be my first pick.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

SineWave

All I know about Kawis is, I had a 12 or 17hp in a John Deere 175 mower and I thought it needed a starter and called the dealer (this was nearly 20 years ago) and they wanted something like $400 for a starter.

I asked, "How much for a complete new engine???"

FloridaMike

I too went with a Honda (20.8 hp).  Was surprised to see the "made in China" sticker,  I guess what isn't these day.
Mike

Kbeitz

All Honda vertical-shaft lawn mower engines on both Honda lawn mowers as well as other brands (Toro, Sears, etc.) have been cast, assembled and shipped from the Honda plant in Swepsonville, North Carolina since 1982. That facility makes hundreds of thousands of engines every year, with many exported to Latin American and European distributors.

Now some of the larger, horizontal-shaft engines used in Honda generators, snowblowers, and pumps are made at Honda plants in Thailand. However, the vast, overwhelming majority of Honda engines sold in the US come right out of the Swepsonville plant.

If it says it's made in China I bet it's a clone.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ianab

According to Honda's web page the GX series is made in Japan, Thailand or China. Those are the commercial rated engines.

The US plant builds the GS version which is a lighter duty engine, and would be used for lawnmowers etc.

If you bought via a legit Honda dealer it's probably a legit Chinese Honda.
If it's "grey market" then it's anyone's guess who actually made it.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

kelLOGg

The best price I have found for the Honda GX 20.8 HP is 1199.99 + shipping (no muffler) from an un-mentionable company so I bet it is made in China. That's a red flag for many. Maybe this is a naive question but if Honda write the specs for a product and verifies the plant can meet them (which to me is the minimum of good business practice) why does it matter where it is made? (It is not my intent to throw a grenade in the kitchen and leave  :o)
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

iffy

The Chonda engine I have on my mill is a 22 hp, listed for $899, on sale for $699. I had a 20% off coupon so another $140 off and shipping was $6.95 to my door. If you discount my screwup with the ether, it has been a pretty good engine. The external parts look just like the external parts on the Honda I have on my welder/generator. I know the piston is different, and would assume the rod is too, but don't know about crank or other internals. My only real complaint about the engine is non-adjustable carb jets and if it sets for awhile the Jets may get varnish build-up & run lean. However, my Honda did this too.

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