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Author Topic: Considering engine replacement  (Read 3025 times)

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Offline kelLOGg

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Considering engine replacement
« on: July 15, 2017, 09:40:58 pm »
My 15 year old MP32 came with a Kohler Triad 16HP engine. It is beginning to use oil bigtime and rather than repair it I am considering replacing it when the time comes. The link below is not complimentary of the Triad series; hence my consideration to replace it.
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/98-Engine-Kohler-Triad-OHC-16-Not-a-good-engine
Any other Triad series owner who has experienced problems?

16HP has served me OK but am leaning to 20HP but no more. I contacted Cook and I can get a 20HP Kohler Command for about $1500 plus shipping. Should I even stick with Kohler? Is there an obvious alternative choice that anyone just swears by other than diesel? (At my age I will probably never recoop the diesel cost.)

Bob
Cook's MP-32, 16HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw, tandem trailer, log arches, trailer, tractor, hammer

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 10:09:18 pm »
When the time came to replace the 16 hp briggs on my mill, I lucked onto a kawasaki V twin liquid cooled engine off a lawn tractor. New ones are available from several places. Comes complete with cooling system, weighs about the same as a comparable air cooled. These are industrial engines used on quite a few pieces of equipment. Almost a bolt on swap for me. So far about 3000 hrs on it, I'm tickled.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline scleigh

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 11:14:55 pm »
Bob. Look at Honda also.

Offline MbfVA

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 02:37:57 am »
Whether you buy there or not, Amazon and eBay are good ways to compare specs and prices, especially on popular brands like Kohler, Honda, Briggs.  I like the comment about liquid cooled--they certainly are quieter in most cases for example.  The 35 hp Briggs on my swing mill is really noisy.

 $1500 for a 20 hp motor sounds high to me.   When I was considering buying a Norwood HD 36 without an engine, I think I had a lower local quotation than that for a GX690 Honda ( but consider whether or not the fuel tank and muffler are included).  It was 22 hp in the configuration I was seeking-- my memory is not clear at this point, but I believe there was a 23 or 24 hp version available for more money.  Watch out for net versus gross hp ratings.

Usual comment from members of this forum is to get all the horsepower you can fit on your machine and afford.

Some people really like the Predators sold by Harbor freight.   Like a lot of HF tools, they certainly seem a lot cheaper, so much so in some cases that even comparing total cost of ownership with a major brand but using a shorter life for the Predator, they can still be the winners.

And one more question: have you checked the cost of rebuilding your engine? There are so many places around it will do that, and many manufacturers sell rebuild kits.  You're going to lose horsepower with any newer engine due to creeping EPA rules, one more thing to consider.

The GX690 Honda used to be rated at 28 hp, for example, until they "re-tuned" over time to achieve increasingly strict EPA specs.  Now the otherwise almost same engine only gets a maximum of about 23 hp.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 02:52:58 am »
In today world of gas engines my choice would be Kawasaki or Honda.
I think at one time  Kohler was a very good engine so was Briggs.
Times has changed and things got cheaper. At one time I had over
3000 gas engines in my collection so I got to play with them all.
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Offline kelLOGg

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 09:59:13 am »
Thanks for the replies. I have time to make an informed decision. If I could trust my judgment on a used engine that would save me a lot of $ but...not my skill.  Maybe the price quoted on the Kohler was high even with a muffler - I have heard a lot of good things about Honda and saw one for ~200 less but with no muffler. We'll see.

Bob
Cook's MP-32, 16HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw, tandem trailer, log arches, trailer, tractor, hammer

Online 47sawdust

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 03:23:38 pm »
Bob,The fella I bought my WM LT30 from had installed a Honda GX 670 on it.I have not had any problems with it or any of the other Honda motors on other machines.It is a little cold natured but shouldn't be an issue in N.C.
 The stories I read here about Kohler's would make me a little nervous.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Online Bruno of NH

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 04:31:09 pm »
In the winter on the Honda's 20 hp and over you need to cut a cardboard piece to cover most of the fan area of the pull starter.
They say it runs much better that way
thomas 8013 mill ,Mahindra 3540 cab tractor loader  Dump trailer  and lot of contracting tools

Online 47sawdust

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 05:26:56 am »
Bruno,I cover the shroud on my Honda,about a 6'' disc,when the temp starts staying below 30.It makes a big difference.Honda does not recommend using the cover below 40.Honda makes a cold weather shroud but there is no need to spend the money.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Offline kelLOGg

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 07:09:59 am »
What's the purpose of the disc? to impede air flow for cooling? otherwise it cools too much? Any engine I get will be electric start. Do they require a disc cover?
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 16HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw, tandem trailer, log arches, trailer, tractor, hammer

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 08:39:08 am »
Bob, the disc/cover is put over the air intake on the front of the engine to limit how much cold air can go through the engine, normally for cooling the engine!
For example, my 25hp Kohler gets very tempermental when the weather starts getting cold, so I block off about half of the grill and the engine is then allowed to produce more heat and it runs better!
I hope this explains it to you OK!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider
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Offline SineWave

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 08:12:25 pm »
Can't beat the price on the Harbor Freight Predator 22 hp Chondas...

Offline iffy

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2017, 06:40:03 pm »
I have a Chonda (Chinese Honda) 22 hp (aka predator on my mill. It was on sale for $699 and I applied a 20% off coupon to it. Shipping was $6.95 to my door. Yes, the decimal point is in the right place.
It has been a pretty good engine but make sure u run the fuel out before storage as the Jets have a tendency to partially plug.
I broke a piston in mine and it was entirely my fault. The only thing they do not show availability on is the piston & rings. They put in a special order to China for the parts and told me it would be 10 weeks. That was in September. Last part of January they sent me notice that the parts were shipping.
Meanwhile I had rounded up a Kubota 3 cyl dual fuel afrom one brother an then the other brother told me he had an extra 4 cyl diesel off the drive system for a center pivot (abt 20hp).
I ended up fixing the chonda as that was the easiest rout but I now have enough spares for a lifetime
😁

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2017, 08:28:16 pm »
Parts is the only reason that I would not buy a Chonda....
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Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2017, 10:36:56 pm »
Go diesel you'll never look back.
2000 LT40HYDD33-RA, '70's era 2500, '96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, 350 Husky, CS-590 Echo

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Offline Ox

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2017, 09:57:03 am »
iffy - what did you do to break a piston?
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
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Offline iffy

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2017, 10:03:03 am »
Something incredibly stupid. Apparently some water leaked in thru he air cleaner. I didn't know this & put fresh gas in it & tried to start it. It was trying so I gave it a little shot of ether & it ran for a few seconds . Cranked it again with a shot of ether & it started. When it tried to die I gave it another shot to keep it running & that with the water finished it off.

Offline Ox

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 10:07:19 am »
Criminy - I've done that trick for the last 25 years.  I guess either I've been really lucky or the pistons in the older engines are a bit stronger.  Likely a bit of both.  Thanks for the reply - I'll hafta stick that in my little brain and hopefully it'll stay...

(chanting with my head bowed, eyes closed and two fingers to my temple):  Chonda engines don't like steam, Chonda engines don't like steam, Chonda engines don't like steam...  :laugh:
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Offline iffy

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2017, 10:30:11 am »
Since many of the other parts interchange with Honda I bought a Honda piston & rings & the bore is the same but pin height is different.

Offline Ox

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Re: Considering engine replacement
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2017, 11:00:47 am »
If the wrist pin height is different, does it make up for it with a different piston crown height?  What about the weight of the piston - is it near enough the same where it doesn't throw the balance of the engine off?  I've always heard these parts are basically interchangeable but to what degree I wonder...
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools