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Author Topic: Setworks Project...your input is requested  (Read 1890 times)

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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Setworks Project...your input is requested
« on: July 11, 2017, 01:04:50 pm »
I started thinking about whether or not the SimpleSet could be modified to do more after finishing this DRO project last fall (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,93251.msg1436333.html#msg1436333) and decided my goal would be to create a direct replacement for the WM SimpleSet controller that would provide more avanced setworks features without modifying the existing SimpleSet(enclosure,button-panel,encoder).

This is the first experimental prototype done on proto-board:
 

 

 

 

I was able to test and prove the basic functions using this prototype but the microprocessor was too small to add the functions needed to make a usable setworks.  A new circuit board was needed but I couldn't see doing any more of that hand wiring...it was time to learn how to make an actual printed circuit board.  So, YouTube to the rescue and a few weeks later...

 

  
The circuit design is laser-jet printed onto shipping label backing paper and heat transferred to both sides of a bare copper board using a modified laminating machine. 



  
Etching the board using a mix of muratic acid and hydrogen peroxide.  The print toner resists the etching solution and anything not covered by toner is etched away.



  
After etching, the toner is wiped off with a solvent and the bare copper circuit is left behind.



  
The board is tinned with a tinning solution to protect the copper and the holes have been drilled and is ready for the components to be inserted.



  
Fully populated prototype PCB. 



  
The WM SimpleSet controller for comparison.



 
As you can see there have been "a couple" of design changes to the board since I made it.  These will be incorporated into the next version.


That's it for the show-and-tell for the moment.  I think I've got most of the bugs worked out and I hope to have a riveting video of the setworks in action in the next day or two.

I need y'alls help deciding what to call the different sawing modes.  There are two sawing modes other than Manual:

MODE1:  Starting at the current blade height, calculates the drop(target) points based on the selected SET(desired board thickness) and kerf, so that a board of thickness SET is left on the bed.  Optionally a CORE(leave on) value can be selected and that will be what is "left behind" on the bed after all SET's have been cut.  This Mode is similar to Pattern mode on the Accuset2 but with only two increments available so I don't really want to call it Pattern mode.  It is the same as the AutoSaw on the TK mills accept for the added CORE option. 

MODE2:  From the current blade height, drop the selected SET value plus kerf.  This is the same as the SimpleSet and AutoDown on the Accuset2.

I need to name these two sawing modes something that can be spelled or abbreviated in 3 to 5 letters.

Suggestions?   



       
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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Offline D6c

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 03:43:06 pm »
Excellent work....I can do mechanical work but electronics is pretty much magic to me.

On WM mills, what are they using to sense movement?  Do they have a rotary encoder on the lift mechanism or something else?

It may not be practical to add to an older machine like mine ('87 LT40), but since I'm going to all the trouble to add hydraulics I'd consider adding set-works if it wasn't too difficult.

Offline drobertson

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 07:36:55 pm »
first off, hats off, and you brought back memories from my brother Kev, you and he would most likely have hit it off.  That said, TAG for the pattern mode, DRP for the auto down, not sure what else works.  if you went four letters, TARG. and Drop,  kinda a no brainer,  either way impressive, innovative, to say the least. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline POSTONLT40HD

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 07:46:58 pm »
 

 
I'm thinking......

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 08:14:56 pm »
So you can do all that but not name it lol lol


Nice work!  I can't even begin to comphrehend (or spell it lol) how this all works..


Two questions, do you have it so that it won't drop the head below say 1"?


In your mode one, there's only one way to drop to the bed while leaving a core, so how can you start at where the blade is currently?  In pattern mode it drops down to the first spot, and if you didn't use pattern mode to come in on a slab you'll have a burn board.


I think you call mode 1 core and mode 2 down...its just a name maybe call mode one goat and mode two $300 lol
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 09:06:15 pm »
I have it programmed so it won't drop below 7/8" except in manual mode.  I guess I didn't explain Mode1 very well.  It doesn't make the first cut where the blade is but rather it drops to the nearest calculated target(or spot if you like) below the blade for the first cut.  It's just like Pattern Mode on the Accuset2 but with only two increments available. 
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 09:20:55 pm »
Here's some Wood-Mizereze copied from the WM manual and modified to fit my Mode1:

Mode1: This mode references the bed and allows you to program up to two different increments (SET and CORE) calculated up from the bed.  The SET increment repeats itself up to the starting blade height.  The CORE increment indicates the size of the remaining cant when all of the SET increments have been completed.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 09:32:02 pm »
Excellent work....I can do mechanical work but electronics is pretty much magic to me.

On WM mills, what are they using to sense movement?  Do they have a rotary encoder on the lift mechanism or something else?

It may not be practical to add to an older machine like mine ('87 LT40), but since I'm going to all the trouble to add hydraulics I'd consider adding set-works if it wasn't too difficult.
The mills equipped with SimpleSet use an absolute rotary encoder installed on the input shaft of the gear box.  I don't think the SimpleSet has the adjustability required to make it work accurately on an older mill but an after-market setworks could probably be made to work.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 10:03:23 pm »
 smiley_thumbsup



Wait til you get to be my age

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 06:32:23 pm »
As promised here's the video.  I haven't a clue what I'm doing when it comes to making videos.  Please be kind. :)

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Offline POSTONLT40HD

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 07:40:21 pm »
This is unbelievable Paul.
Did I hear you say Goat Mode????

How did you get the face of the Simple Set with the new labels on?
I tell ya.....I like it bud.
Good job!  8)
I'm thinking......

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 07:49:08 pm »
Awesome job! I love the part about being able to actually adjust the kerf width, since I plan to use .055 and .045 blades with different kerfs when my LX 450. The keyboard overlay was a nice touch.

Are you going to make this available for simple set owners who want to install this on their own mills? If so, any idea of what the cost will be? I suspect you'll sell more than a few.

Stuart Caruk
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 09:09:23 pm »
Thanks guys.

Yes, "GOAT MODE" is in the lead at the moment.  The buttons were drawn using OpenOffice Draw, printed on self-adhesive address labels, and covered with self-sealing(no heat) laminating sheet.  At some point I'd like to have some vinyl stickers made...I've found some on-line places that will do small runs pretty cheap.

Stuart:  I hope to, eventually.  Haven't decided yet on a price.
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Offline Larry

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 10:14:25 pm »
I'm very impressed and like it a lot.  Does any other setworks have the center function?  I could use that a lot. 

Your presentation was first class, thanks for the preview. :) 
Larry

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 10:45:38 pm »
Goat mode is the only thing that makes sense to me..fits like a glove lol


Seriously impressed, nice work.
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2017, 07:48:21 am »
Very Seriously Impressed.
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Offline boardmaker

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2017, 08:56:43 am »
Pretty cool.

Great Job!

Offline D6c

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2017, 09:27:33 am »
Excellent work....I can do mechanical work but electronics is pretty much magic to me.

On WM mills, what are they using to sense movement?  Do they have a rotary encoder on the lift mechanism or something else?

It may not be practical to add to an older machine like mine ('87 LT40), but since I'm going to all the trouble to add hydraulics I'd consider adding set-works if it wasn't too difficult.

The mills equipped with SimpleSet use an absolute rotary encoder installed on the input shaft of the gear box.  I don't think the SimpleSet has the adjustability required to make it work accurately on an older mill but an after-market setworks could probably be made to work.

Great video....I especially like the center function.  I've never been around a set-works but this would save a ton of time.
If I get the modifications done on my mill I may be picking your brain about what it would take to put one together.

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2017, 07:01:03 pm »
Larry-- I don't know of any setworks out there that have a set center function.  I just know I spend a lot of time measuring the center height of logs and and counting up in my head, trying to get cants centered.
 
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2017, 10:22:17 pm »
That is impressive! 
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2017, 08:44:43 am »
Ga, I like the setworks upgrade. If you were to make a replacement or fix for those of us with the old setworks I would gladly test it out for you. My setworks has quit and I can't see paying $700+ for a new encoder with a display that's on the fritz.
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Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2017, 07:51:02 pm »
I do have plans to do something and I will keep you in mind JB.

One reason I took on this project was I hoped to be able to increase the head UP/Down speed.  Several years ago I played around with putting a larger pulley (AK32, same as on Super mills) on the lift motor and it did speed up the head by about 50% but I couldn't get the SimpleSet to work accurately at that speed. 


 
AK32 pulley next to stock AK22 pulley.

The new setworks controller has plenty of adjustability that should allow it to operate at a wide range of speeds, but I had not tested it yet at anything but the "Standard" speed.    I got the chance to try the larger pulley again today and after some tweaking of the settings...

...I'd say it's working pretty good!  The head is dropping at about 2"/sec.

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Offline POSTONLT40HD

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2017, 09:59:54 pm »
If the head drops at 2" per sec.....Thats moving!
I'm thinking......

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2017, 09:48:12 am »
"If"!  Do you doubt me sir?  :snowball:
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2017, 12:07:38 pm »
NO SIR!!
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2017, 02:23:15 pm »
Sorry Danny, didn't mean to scare anyone.  I sometimes forget just how intimidating I can be. ::) 
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2017, 04:20:37 pm »
"If"!  Do you doubt me sir?  :snowball:

Talk about putting somebody in "Goat Mode".  :D :D :D :D :D
I'm thinking......

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2017, 09:56:24 pm »
"If"!  Do you doubt me sir?  :snowball:

Talk about putting somebody in "Goat Mode".  :D :D :D :D :D


Goat Mode is a trademark pending term so don't be using it too loosely otherwise I might could charge ya for it lol
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 10:13:30 pm »
Ga, whats the setworks reading off of to know where the bed is, the dro?
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2017, 09:24:58 am »
"Two inches per second"

That's the same speed at which your coffee drops after you swallow it in the morning!  :laugh:

No doubt! :D :D :D
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2017, 09:37:23 am »
Ga, whats the setworks reading off of to know where the bed is, the dro?

I was wondering the same thing....how do you "home" the vertical position on start up?  Is there a limit switch at the bottom of the travel like on a machine tool?....drop down to the limit switch and then continue to a set point on the encoder?

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2017, 09:08:30 pm »
Sorry 4x4, you were too late trademarking "Goat Mode".  I checked the ofishial govment website and you were no where to be found.  So it is mine.  GOAT MODE coming to a setworks near you.  Video to follow  ;D.

JB & D6c--  The blade position routine tracks the blade by counting encoder revolutions (full and partial revs), adding and subtracting as the head moves up and down.  There is a "Calibrate Blade Height" function similar to the Accuset2...move the blade to 10" (I chose 10 instead of 12 cuz the math is easier :laugh:) and press and hold the secret button.  The encoder count is then reset to the correct rev count for 10", which is the encoder gear ratio x 10" (10.640 x 10 = 106.400revs) .  There is an interrupt routine that is triggered on power-down that saves the current blade position to EEPROM.  This saved value is reloaded into the blade height variable on power-up, so the blade position is retained .  In theory the blade height should never have to calibrated again after the first time.  In theory.   

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2017, 03:26:44 am »
Most impressive.
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2017, 06:59:02 am »
How does it save to eeprom if power is lost?
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2017, 02:14:42 pm »
When the +12V supply falls below a certain level, the interrupt is tripped, giving a short window to save the values before the +5V (LDO) regulator drops out. 
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2017, 04:28:47 pm »
When the +12V supply falls below a certain level, the interrupt is tripped, giving a short window to save the values before the +5V (LDO) regulator drops out. 
I wish I would have thought of that. I programmed mine to save to eeprom after every command. And eeprom has a limited read/write life, so your way is much better.
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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2017, 07:47:20 am »
Intimidating,yes you are Paul like you were at the first project but after this i think i will just sit in the truck at the next project.
al glenn

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2017, 10:14:14 am »
You must be thinking of someone else Al.  As I recall it, I stayed off to the side the whole time, afraid someone would figure out I had no business being there amongst the real sawyers. :-\
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2017, 04:31:17 pm »
Dang if i had known that i would have introduced my self sooner.we would have fit right in.
al glenn

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2017, 07:25:29 pm »
Oh Paul I remember you blasting down Jakes drive with your sawmill lettering all over your pickup like you owned the joint lol lol
Wait til you get to be my age

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Re: Setworks Project...your input is requested
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2017, 08:14:32 pm »
 :D :D
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