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Author Topic: Suitability of my machine?  (Read 1121 times)

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Offline Satamax

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Suitability of my machine?
« on: July 08, 2017, 05:35:10 pm »
Hi everybody! Well, i don't get out of Sawmills and timberframing much.

But i have a question.

I have this machine.



Based loosely on a massey backhoe and landini tractor. Kind of small factory production in the late eighties in France.

79hp perkins 4236, viscous coupler, power shift gearbox. And a reduction to make it's top speed 25kmh.  Supposedly it's 19 metric tons. 

The top of the crane is at approximately 12 or 13 feet high.

I need to work in this mountain.



Not that flat hey!

I use this machine mostly for roofing. Timberframing. Will also be used on the sawmill when i'll get that running.

Logging is the last of my chores.


Should i bother adding a blade and a winch to this machine. To get may be 30 trees a year out of the woods?

Or am i better finding something else?

Thanks for reading guys.

Max.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 10:26:00 pm »
If you roll it, will you have the means to flip it back over?  Terrain looks steep and machine looks pretty top heavy. 

Can the crane do a full swing to the rear?  If so.. A pintle hitch and a simple 2 wheel forwarding trailer would probably be more productive than skidding each tree all the way out. You could buck the tree where it lands and winch the logs to you then swing them up onto trailer.

Offline Spartan

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 10:43:47 pm »
Unless you are going to put skid trails in, I would not skid with that thing.

I'd get a small bulldozer with a winch.  That way you can put trails in and clear landing area and do a whole bunch of more useful stuff with it.  Like plow snow, looks like you'll need to do that.

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 11:23:51 pm »
Non for the Contant Quattro GC-75.
What are the environmental rules for the Alpes?
There should be other machines in your area - skidders with chains on tires, tractors with winches etc
http://www.tigercat.com/between-the-branches/how-to-move-timber-in-france/

Skidder competition - France


2017 - France skidder comp

Offline Ianab

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2017, 12:44:42 am »
I also think you would be better served with a small bulldozer / winch to get the logs to a road or trail that would be more accessible for that machine. Bulldozer is quite practical if you aren't skidding a long distance. You don't want to be dragging logs a couple of miles off a hillside with a bulldozer. You want to be dragging to winching them 100 meters to some sort of landing where they can be loaded onto something with wheels.

Then use your crane, with a trailer, to load and drive the logs out over the decent "road", rather than heading off trail with a top heavy rig like that.

On relatively flat ground, or at least a decent formed trail, that rig could load and tow some logs well enough, but it's not exactly "all terrain" with so much weight up high.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline barbender

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2017, 01:01:55 am »
They sure have awesome equipment expos in Europe! Those dual drum cable winch machines with a forwarder crane sure look slick. Satamax, to your question, your machine does look mighty top heavy. I think these fellows gave you good advice, a small dozer for working those slopes would work well. I don't know how common those are in France though. That area you are going to be logging is beautiful!
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Satamax

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 04:58:43 am »
Thanks a lot for all the replies guys.

It's all estover land from the town council. And pretty much trailed all over. To the left, there's the ski resort, where i work in winter. I have a few big trees there. I was thinking using the electrical post stakes which are on the machine. And load my Iveco tipper too. Well. Plan will be to test it on flatish parts. And try to buy something else. Tho, wheeled, not with caterpillars.

Thanks a lot again.

Offline Ianab

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2017, 05:56:44 am »
I did see a really cool portable gas powered winch at a local store. Made in Italy if I remember right.

Basically it was in a small metal frame that you could lug around, like a small generator. Strap to a tree (or tractor) and winch in things, like logs. That might work if you can operate from a road, and drag in logs to where the crane can reach them.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2017, 08:51:41 am »
What is the soil composition?  Its not clay right?

Offline Satamax

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2017, 09:04:03 am »
I did see a really cool portable gas powered winch at a local store. Made in Italy if I remember right.

Basically it was in a small metal frame that you could lug around, like a small generator. Strap to a tree (or tractor) and winch in things, like logs. That might work if you can operate from a road, and drag in logs to where the crane can reach them.
Something like this one?




What is the soil composition?  Its not clay right?
No real clay. Mostly stones and mud. Mix of fragmented schist, larch needles, schist clay and bigger stones. Rarely slippery as real clay is.

Thanks a lot for your replies guys.

Offline lopet

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2017, 10:22:45 am »
I would even hesitate to take a 19 ton yard machine in the woods on flat terrain, not even speaking of hills. 
Like everybody said, you're not gonna be happy. :)
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2017, 12:46:42 pm »
Does it have differential lock?

Offline Satamax

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2017, 03:56:01 pm »
Diff lock? Not that i know of.

2 or 4 wheel drive, central lock. Not really a transfer case, but a 2 to 4wd case.  But no trace of even a mechanism on the axles. They have a reference 716/24 and i think they come from Landini, but were also fitted on Massey. They are huge. The diff bulb is may be 15 to 18 inch high, all square.

The machine is loosely based on the quattrino http://vieilles-soupapes.grafbb.com/t2972-valtrac-qui-connait With a motor from massey 60HX, axles were landini. Trany is from massey 60HX too. Dashboard from a landini 8500dt A bitza! :D

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 04:43:07 pm »
The major issue is that when you get on a sidehill all that top weight is gonna swing downhill and unload the highside tire which will just spin.  I have a 4wd articulated forklift with open diffs and once it spins the unloaded wheel im done unless i can crab the steering enough for that wheel to bite in again.

You do have a major advantage over mine in those ag tires and the ability to swing the boom or lay out riggers to help with balance.  Id try it but be sure to have low expectations.  For 30 trees a year it might do okay for now. 

Offline Frozendozer

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 04:50:41 pm »
Nice looking rig, however it looks better suited for a construction site.   It looks real top heavy and would be nervous on any side hill.   If you only needs are about 30 trees a year, why use an atv, I have had a real positive experiences using a quad, especially in snow.  There is lots of attachments to assist and they work good for long distances. 

Trail building can be some work, but in open Timber they rock.    You could drive your machine to a safe place and pull the trees to that spot.  Load them on your trailer with that cool crane. 

Offline Satamax

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2017, 05:55:17 pm »
Thanks for your replies guys.

Frozendozer, i have no ATV. Toyota HJ61 1988, iveco daily 4x4 1989, and this crane. From 89 or 90.

I could buy a 50's Agrip/bialler snowplow. Which has always been here. Crab, 4 wheel steer and 4 wheel drive, with lockers too. 40hp.



Here in Bialler's factory, in 56 or 57.



Agrip used to make ARD40 ARD60 etc forestry tractors. And Bialler, a local company, which still exists, used to transform those into snowplows.

Agrip used to make those out of two GMC's front axles. (M35?)  I think gearboxes are also GMC.

This one stayed locally until now. To end up in a friend's front lawn. Might get it for 500. May be less.

Only prob, it doesn't have a PTO :(




 

Offline lopet

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2017, 09:57:54 pm »
Why pay 500 for a lawn ornament if you can get it for scrap price ?  :)
Or how much is scrap going for on your side of the pond ?
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline Satamax

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2017, 10:52:21 pm »
Well, over here, 90 a ton, to 150 a ton further south. 4 ton machine, or may be 5.  He said i can get it for the price of the tires. Which might be more expensive.

Offline Spartan

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2017, 11:00:08 pm »
If you are not allowed to have a crawler, you might want to find a small skidder to do your work.  You can always sell it when done to recover some costs.
I am thinking about your statement of you are going to be pulling out some large trees.  I have pulled many trees out of tough areas and they will ultimately be in tough areas.  you want a machine that is designed to do that.  steep grades will really test you and your equipment and in the logging world it is never as easy as we would like to think it is.
Skidders are designed to do what you are wanting.  You will find that even those will be tested.
I have taken them to the limit, rolled them, broke them.  All in the name of getting a tree out.
I just think that you will have a tough time with your crane all things considered.  Especially if you are new to skidding logs.

you can also widen the dozer if you want or put an adjustable blade on them to plow snow.
Food for thought.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Suitability of my machine?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2017, 03:57:49 am »
Thanks Spartan. Well, i know. But a 207 timberjack from the late seventies next to me is offered at 12000 13700 bucks approximately.

I can get a broken one for 5000 far away. This would add another 1500. Not really worth it.

Cheap forestry tractors, like the transformed one above, can be had for cheaper. But for the moment, none appears in my necks of the woods.  Few JD 440 an and B but still too far away. Here, except one one company, running a franklin 405, everybody pulls their wood with agricultural 4wd tractors. Small fords, same, renault in the 45 to 80hp range. Since my usage will be trivial. I don't want to spend tons.