iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Logging with a 50cc pro saw?

Started by gman98, July 01, 2017, 09:18:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gman98

How many of you guys regularly log with a pro series 50cc saw?  I'm looking to add another saw to my collection.  I don't really care for heavy saws as I find them to be fatiguing to run all day, especially limbing.  I figured a 50cc saw may fit my bill for cutting mostly popple and softwood.  What are your thoughts?

Thanks
Forest technician and part time equipment operator.  Looking to get set up with some logging equipment of my own.

John Mc

I'm not a pro logger, and I don't do much in softwoods, but for limbing and working in smaller hardwoods I use a 50cc with a 16" bar saw quite a bit. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to lug around a larger saw all day when there is no need for one.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ianab

Size of the trees?

Locally "softwood" will be 3+ ft dia so the local loggers are completely justified lugging around 80-90cc saws.  But the guys doing pre-commercial thinning, and just dropping 6-12" pines to waste will usually use a smaller lighter saw because it's easier to hump up and down the hills all day.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

DelawhereJoe

I think if you run a 50cc saw thats not ported, your production will probably suffer. Generally a 20" bar is the largest you can run on the 50cc frame due to the oilers output, that should give you the ability to fell a tree 2 -2.5x the size of your bar. If just cutting firewood like me then time is on your side, but doing it for a living where time  and trees are money then it might not be worthwhile.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

John Mc

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on July 02, 2017, 09:16:47 AM
I think if you run a 50cc saw thats not ported, your production will probably suffer. Generally a 20" bar is the largest you can run on the 50cc frame due to the oilers output, that should give you the ability to fell a tree 2 -2.5x the size of your bar. If just cutting firewood like me then time is on your side, but doing it for a living where time  and trees are money then it might not be worthwhile.

Yes, you can do it, but if I were cutting wood that actually needed a 20" bar (let alone felling trees that were 2 - 2.5x = 40 - 50"), I sure wouldn't choose a 50cc saw. If I'm out in the woods with a 50cc saw and run into a larger tree, I'll cut it with what I have with me (I'd carry the lighter saw and spend a little more time on the occasional large tree, rather than carry  large saw all day, or make a trip back for it on that large tree).  I won't even bother putting a 20" bar on my 50cc saw. It's much better matched to the 16" that I keep on it.

If I know I'm going to be cutting more than just an occasional large tree, I'll choose a bigger saw with a longer bar.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

teakwood

i use several 260s (50cc) with 18"b/c in my teakplantations, they are very good reliable saws and you can go all day and i have steep grounds, but the trees are within 8-14". next year i have the second commercial thinning and the trees are getting bigger, up to 16-18" so i upgraded to a 361 (60cc), so we will see how that works out
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

gman98

18-20" will be the usual size tree.  Cutting spruce, fir, cedar, and popple on farm lots.  I should add that the saw will not be run daily all day.  Mostly just on weekends.

Thanks
Forest technician and part time equipment operator.  Looking to get set up with some logging equipment of my own.

Gearbox

Run what you are comfortable with . I have a range of saws from 55 to 75 cc . When felling and liming off the tractor I will use the 55 Rancher . On the landing I want a 70 cc or bigger . Just how this old man does it .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

HolmenTree

Quote from: gman98 on July 01, 2017, 09:18:29 PM
How many of you guys regularly log with a pro series 50cc saw?  I'm looking to add another saw to my collection.  I don't really care for heavy saws as I find them to be fatiguing to run all day, especially limbing.  I figured a 50cc saw may fit my bill for cutting mostly popple and softwood.  What are your thoughts?

Thanks
gman98, I see you're logging in northern Maine. You share the same forest as your neighbors in New Brunswick, Canada.  Mostly spruce, pine, balsam fir, poplar.

A lot of New Brunswick loggers migrated up here to northern Manitoba. They loved logging in Manitoba for our stable weather, low snow fall and drier conditions with lots of sunshine. Rains mostly at night which is nicknamed  a "company rain."
Cold in winter freezing the wood solid making limbing a lot easier when the skidders can run over the limbs breaking them off.
You can work all year here but sometimes a fire ban in the warmest days of July August.

But your wood is similar to ours and the smallest saw we ran was a 60cc 034 Stihl or a 630 Jonsereds. But average was a 70cc saw, all with 18"-20".

But the way these new modern MS261CM and 550XP saws put out for power right out of the box they can easily replace the 60cc of old.

In clear cut piecework treelength logging felling,limbing and topping, my best production saw was a 85cc Stihl 064AV with a 33RS chain on a 18" bar.  :)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Maine372

I do carry a 346xp with 16" bar for limbing. I have used it for falling in smaller wood (8-10" balsam fir). but those saws aren't designed for the all day bar buried work that you are going to put them through as a go-to saw for falling/limbing/bucking.

I now carry an arsenal with me and swap out saws regularly to suit the task at hand. for years the 372xp/20" bar was my go-to setup. I now find myself reaching for a ported 357/20", lighter than the 372 but cuts the same or better.

I think in the softwood forest you work in that a 562/18" (or 362/18") would be a happy middle ground. if you already have a saw in that size range it couldn't hurt to add a 50cc class saw for limbing duty and to carry with you to cut yourself out of a jam.


PNWRusty

Well, you already have the 60cc 362 C-M so you know what it can do. It sounds like you've found it to be more than enough for the tasks at hand so maybe you've answered your own question. If you think you don't need that last 0.7 hp, and you would benefit more from a saw weighing 1.5 lbs. less, then the 261 M-C might make your day easier (4.0 hp vs. 4.69 hp). It's just softwood but only you know exactly what it entails. The effectiveness of the chain will matter more than the extra .7 hp so if you think your current 362 C-M has more than enough grunt for your toughest tasks, go for it. You can always use the bigger saw or put on a freshly sharpened chain if you have a particularly demanding task.

I know I enjoy it more when my saw feels light and nimble. When my 026 gets buried in bigger wood it takes a lighter touch and a little more time than a saw with more grunt but it doesn't wear me out like lugging a bigger saw around does. And I haven't managed to wear out the 026 yet either. But it sounds like your wood isn't that big or difficult. Only you would know.   

gman98

Quote from: PNWRusty on July 02, 2017, 04:59:17 PM
Well, you already have the 60cc 362 C-M so you know what it can do. It sounds like you've found it to be more than enough for the tasks at hand so maybe you've answered your own question. If you think you don't need that last 0.7 hp, and you would benefit more from a saw weighing 1.5 lbs. less, then the 261 M-C might make your day easier (4.0 hp vs. 4.69 hp). It's just softwood but only you know exactly what it entails. The effectiveness of the chain will matter more than the extra .7 hp so if you think your current 362 C-M has more than enough grunt for your toughest tasks, go for it. You can always use the bigger saw or put on a freshly sharpened chain if you have a particularly demanding task.

I know I enjoy it more when my saw feels light and nimble. When my 026 gets buried in bigger wood it takes a lighter touch and a little more time than a saw with more grunt but it doesn't wear me out like lugging a bigger saw around does. And I haven't managed to wear out the 026 yet either. But it sounds like your wood isn't that big or difficult. Only you would know.   
I try to avoid using my 362 for logging.  It's my "nice saw"  :D.  I find it to be pretty heavy as well.  I have rarely found a situation cutting in the situations I plan on where my 362 has struggled at all, so I figured a 550xp or cs2253 would fit the bill.

Thanks
Forest technician and part time equipment operator.  Looking to get set up with some logging equipment of my own.

btulloh

If you add a 50cc saw you won't regret it.  Then you can use the one that suits the job or the mood. The 50cc is not my first choice for bucking.
HM126

Al_Smith

I'm not a pro but I like a 3 cuber for certain jobs .They are light weight and with a good sharp .325 chisel chain they cut well .Short bar of course .

thecfarm

I use a Efco 52cc for limbing. I won the saw on here.  ;D  You say logging,how long you running the saw? I have a 372 husky to cut them down and saw the logs. I use the small saw for limbing. But I'm not logging either. I saw down a tree and limb it up and take the logs to the sawmill. Saw the logs into lumber and then I build. When I am out of lumber,back to the woods I go. So the small saw might get used no more than 3 hours a day. More like 2 hours.I really like the light saw.
The small saw has really helped out the shoulder.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ada Shaker

Horses for courses really. Supply and demand, if there's a demand for 50cc pro saws then companies will supply them really. The question arises whether you as the consumer would benefit from such a saw. I know what you mean about lugging big heavy saws. Everyone's different and so too are the woods, depends on what your cutting and how fatigued you are at the end of the day, (fatigued is not something you want to be lugging a chainsaw around).
If it hangs to the left, your likely to be a Husqvarna man.
If it hangs to the right, your likely to be a Stihl man.
Anything else is an uncomfortable compromise.
                             AND
Walking with one foot on either side of a barbed wire fence can become extremely uncomfortable at times.

Fishnuts2

I noticed in your signature that you have a 545.  It has the same build as a 550 only a little less power.  So, you can answer your own question from past experiences with it.  The two saws you currently have will do the job on the types of wood that you have to work with, I believe.  Unless, of course, you end up like a lot of the rest of us and catch CAD.  By the time you realize it, it is way, way, too late to recover!   ;D

Gearbox

One thing to keep in mind is the 50cc saw will use a smaller file /stone . I just sold 271 with a smaller chain for that reason .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

teakwood

The 362 is the perfect tool for 18-20" trees. You already have all you need. Of course i sense that you want a new saw as much of us want new toys also (like fishnuts pointed out.  CAD ??? Chainsaw addiction??  :D :D)

Quote from: gman98 on July 02, 2017, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: PNWRusty on July 02, 2017, 04:59:17 PM
Well, you already have the 60cc 362 C-M so you know what it can do. It sounds like you've found it to be more than enough for the tasks at hand so maybe you've answered your own question. If you think you don't need that last 0.7 hp, and you would benefit more from a saw weighing 1.5 lbs. less, then the 261 M-C might make your day easier (4.0 hp vs. 4.69 hp). It's just softwood but only you know exactly what it entails. The effectiveness of the chain will matter more than the extra .7 hp so if you think your current 362 C-M has more than enough grunt for your toughest tasks, go for it. You can always use the bigger saw or put on a freshly sharpened chain if you have a particularly demanding task.

I know I enjoy it more when my saw feels light and nimble. When my 026 gets buried in bigger wood it takes a lighter touch and a little more time than a saw with more grunt but it doesn't wear me out like lugging a bigger saw around does. And I haven't managed to wear out the 026 yet either. But it sounds like your wood isn't that big or difficult. Only you would know.   
I try to avoid using my 362 for logging.  It's my "nice saw"  :D. I find it to be pretty heavy as well.  I have rarely found a situation cutting in the situations I plan on where my 362 has struggled at all, so I figured a 550xp or cs2253 would fit the bill.

Thanks

If you find that saw heavy, then you should definitely gain some muscles. 
And saws are here to be used, they're not show objects!
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

HolmenTree

We need more information from gman.

What kind of logging are you doing?
▪Is it 7-8 hrs a day 5 days a week?
▪Cutting for a skidder that takes your treelength to the landing to be bucked up at the end of the day?
▪Do you have a roadside delimber, cut to length slasher slasher or a processor?
▪Are you cutting and hand piling pulpwood for a forwarder to pickup later?
▪Are you doing clearcut or selective logging?
▪Are you being paid piecework rate by the foot, cubic meter or cord.

If you answer yes to either question you will need a fast saw that can pull a standard 3/8 chain with authority.
Only for cutting and hand piling small diameter pulpwood would I recommend a 50cc saw with .325 b/c.

If your getting paid by the hour or just logging for yourself on your own woodlot you can run what ever you want.

I myself even at 59 yrs old, I still have muscle at a lean 205 lbs 5" 11" and I wouldn't log with anything less then with a MS362 or a 562XP.
With my urban forest tree service I have multiple sized saws.

The newly introduced MS462C at 73cc, 6 bhp and only a lb. heavier then the MS362 or 562XP would be my choice.
Husqvarna has a competitive 70cc in the works but it appears they're having problems getting it "just right".


Making a living with a saw since age 16.

John Mc

Quote from: gman98 on July 02, 2017, 10:58:51 AMCutting spruce, fir, cedar, and popple on farm lots.  I should add that the saw will not be run daily all day.  Mostly just on weekends.

I took that statement as an indication that Gman98 is not doing this for a living or depending on this to make a mortgage payment. If that's the case, I can certainly understand wanting to go with a smaller saw.

I'm in the same boat myself. I suffer from "Weekend Warrior Syndrome" (I don't do this 5+ days per week, but when I do get out there, it tends to be a full day). An old college wrestling injury to my neck/upper back adds to the problem. If I'm not very careful, a full day of cutting will lead to a couple of chiropractor appointments (or bugging my Physical Therapist wife to fix me). Carrying around a smaller, lighter saw, along with paying attention to body mechanics, minimizes the need for that. Since I'm not relying on this to pay any major bills, spending a few extra seconds on each cut is a worthwhile trade-off
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HolmenTree

Quote from: John Mc on July 03, 2017, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: gman98 on July 02, 2017, 10:58:51 AMCutting spruce, fir, cedar, and popple on farm lots.  I should add that the saw will not be run daily all day.  Mostly just on weekends.

I took that statement as an indication that Gman98 is not doing this for a living or depending on this to make a mortgage payment. If that's the case, I can certainly understand wanting to go with a smaller saw.

I'm in the same boat myself. I suffer from "Weekend Warrior Syndrome" (I don't do this 5+ days per week, but when I do get out there, it tends to be a full day). An old college wrestling injury to my neck/upper back adds to the problem. If I'm not very careful, a full day of cutting will lead to a couple of chiropractor appointments (or bugging my Physical Therapist wife to fix me). Carrying around a smaller, lighter saw, along with paying attention to body mechanics, minimizes the need for that. Since I'm not relying on this to pay any major bills, spending a few extra seconds on each cut is a worthwhile trade-off
Me bad  John , I missed that post you quoted from gman.
But please everyone take my last post as advice for what different classifications a logging saw is rated for.

I forget you Americans log mostly on private owned woodlots. We go big scale up north here with huge square miles of government owned crown land.
Unfortunately now cut mostly with a  feller buncher or processor.
Reason why I'm now an "urban logger" :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

John Mc

Still great advice, HolmenTree.  When possible, you match the saw to the job at hand.

With that in mind, still people's perceptions of what the best match is for them can vary widely.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

It all just boils down to common sense .Given the choice providing a person has the luxury of many saws (I do BTW ) You're not going to attack a 10" tree with an 084 Stihl and a 42" bar nor would you try to lay out a 40" oak with an 026 Stihl and a 16" bar .Fit the tool to the job at hand . .

gman98

Compared to the average guy, I'll just be messing around.  Cutting a few truckloads at a time on the weekends on private lots and hopefully my own lot someday.  This will be something more as a hobby than a job.  A way to earn a little extra cash on the side.

Thanks for the replies so far
Forest technician and part time equipment operator.  Looking to get set up with some logging equipment of my own.

Al_Smith

The terminology   threw me off >logging and fire wood .Certainly a 3 cuber is large enough for a firewooder .
I sold the stuff for about 9 years in the late 70's early mid 80's and all I had at the onset was a Poulan s-25 at 2.3 cubic inches and it did just fine .Later it was a 60 cc McCulloch PM 610 which did better and still does although it doesn't see much action these days because I have faster lighter saws .

HolmenTree

A few years back I adopted a very low hour 1979 Jonsereds 70E, that a buddy of mine found in the landfill.
All it needs is an air filter and air filter cover, also new seals and a carb overhaul. All the decals on it are intact like new.

Of all the Jonsereds I owned from 1974 to 1983, I never owned a 70E. I'm  really looking forward to running it on my operation just for something different..

But then I think about my 1993 Husqvarna 272XP sitting in my attic that has only cut with one tank of fuel since leaving the factory.
Gotta get my priorities straight lol.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

gman98

Quote from: Al_Smith on July 03, 2017, 10:48:47 PM
The terminology   threw me off >logging and fire wood .Certainly a 3 cuber is large enough for a firewooder .
I sold the stuff for about 9 years in the late 70's early mid 80's and all I had at the onset was a Poulan s-25 at 2.3 cubic inches and it did just fine .Later it was a 60 cc McCulloch PM 610 which did better and still does although it doesn't see much action these days because I have faster lighter saws .
By truckloads I mean pulp truck loads.  About 10 cords in a load.
Forest technician and part time equipment operator.  Looking to get set up with some logging equipment of my own.

John Mc

Quote from: gman98 on July 03, 2017, 06:21:27 PMCutting a few truckloads at a time on the weekends

When I ready that quote, I assumed cutting a few truckloads on weekends referred to pickup truck loads... one of these days, I'll learn that "you should never assume..."

Quote from: gman98 on July 04, 2017, 05:02:28 AM
By truckloads I mean pulp truck loads.  About 10 cords in a load.

Now that's a fair amount of cutting. Whatever size saw you end up getting, you're right to be considering a pro-level saw.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

PNWRusty

Quote from: John Mc on July 04, 2017, 08:27:55 AM

Now that's a fair amount of cutting. Whatever size saw you end up getting, you're right to be considering a pro-level saw.

I've never cut pulpwood but wouldn't 10 cords of pulpwood entail about the same amount of actual cutting as 1 cord of firewood?

John Mc

Quote from: PNWRusty on July 04, 2017, 12:48:07 PM
Quote from: John Mc on July 04, 2017, 08:27:55 AM

Now that's a fair amount of cutting. Whatever size saw you end up getting, you're right to be considering a pro-level saw.

I've never cut pulpwood but wouldn't 10 cords of pulpwood entail about the same amount of actual cutting as 1 cord of firewood?

Oops. I was in firewood mode.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

I've wondered the same about actual cuts involved .Although I've never been to Maine nor seen pulpwood loads from there I have in southern Ohio .Scrawny little long tooth picks is what the stuff looks like .You don't need a big saw for that stuff .
Around 8 of the south eastern counties of Ohio look about like West Virginia ,it's not flat rich farm land like where I live in the north west .You could farm the tops or the bottoms.The slopes are so steep  only a crawler  could hang on them --sooooo------they grow timber and pulp .--and white tail deer .

gman98

Pulp truck is a term used in Maine referring to a self loading log truck.  They hold 7-10 cords of 25' logs or 100" aspen and can have a tag log trailer added to the back.  Not just used to haul pulp.  Sorry for the confusion.
Forest technician and part time equipment operator.  Looking to get set up with some logging equipment of my own.

Al_Smith

Okay that said are you cutting saw logs or pulp ? Saw logs here in the hard woods are usually 20 inches or larger .Usually  larger .At a local hardwood mile about 5 miles from me I don't see many small logs .
There's also a local log buyer/exporter who specializes in finer quality stuff ,most of it going to Japan .There you might see cherry,walnut etc in smaller diameters .The white oak veneer logs are usually 36" at least .Those logs come from all over the midwestern lake states .

HolmenTree

One work day morning in the summer of 1979 I was felling and had to stop when a newly hired faller came over to talk from a neighboring block.
He was an older guy in his 50's carrying a little Pioneer saw.  He seemed old to me seeing I was only 21,  :D Younger then I am today at 59 :D
He said the wood was too big to cut and pile into 8 foot. I was confused so I walked with him over to where he was cutting. In amazement I saw he already had almost a full cord piled in his first hour of the day. His partner was just coming over to work with the skidder as he was working on it first thing.

I asked the faller "didn't the foreman tell you we're cutting tree length?"

He looked more puzzled then me and his partner  :D
He got into his pickup and drove off, never saw him again.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Thank You Sponsors!