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Author Topic: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited  (Read 1018 times)

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Offline MbfVA

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Come one come all, comments welcome.

 Part of this is already been made by the shop, and they are waiting on me to confirm a couple of details by tomorrow morning.  That's why I'm hoping for the quick help.

I have engaged a fabricator to do aluminum log dogs for me to use with my Peterson WPF  swing blade mill.   My special concern is small logs, as we have a bunch. I know they don't make much sense on a production basis, seen and heard that discussion elsewhere on the forum, but #one, they're good for learning & I definitely need more learning, and #two, I have some w really interesting wood patterns, and they were going to waste.   Aborted firewood, before I got the sawmill.

And yes, I don't want to buy the $800 ones  from turbo saw, or the $200 ones from Peterson;  I am getting 8 custom-made for about the price of the cheapest one.

Here is a series of three pictures, and I'll go back and add comments as an edit.

The aluminum will be 0.25 inch stock, 3 inch legs on either side, total length 6 inches front to back; width 6 1/2 inches inside the legs, giving me some play to work with different width "bearers" as NZ folks call them.   2 T handled bolts  threaded into the side of the leg will secure it, using another piece of plate stock (with a tab at 90 for easy insertion) between the T bolts and the 6x6.

The front can be elevated if I want a higher grip on the log.   If I am sawing a cant, I can reverse them, for a push without the pointiness.

Please see my questions below the photographs, hoping for expert help from Forum folks.
--
 Pokey part--1 side...



This is a view of the back, and please see my question #3 below.


 Please, I did this with a Skil saw and in a hurry. Woodworking requires better tools. Illustrative purposes only.

 I'll be happy for any comments, but here are some specific questions I have.   Time is of the essence, so I hope you'll think quickly  8)

1-  How tall should the pointed structures (to be made out of regular quarter inch plate stock) on top be above the channel that fits over the 6 x 6? I'm thinking one or one and a half inches?  I can always prop them up with shims so I don't want them to be too tall as a minimum.

2- I wonder if I should ask them to simply bend the top structures out of a longer continuous piece, since that would give a better welding area & a good striking point for tapping them into the log.

3-  Should the top part be  extended all the way to the back, so that it's flush with the rear of the channel?  The original plan was to slant one or two half-inch rods with points on them as log grippers, but using flat stock with the slanted top points is more in keeping with other dog designs I've seen.

Thanks, and maybe this will be an idea for someone else looking for dogs?

Jim

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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 09:04:27 pm »
I don't have a mill like yours. Do you just tap them in?
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Offline TKehl

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 10:52:39 pm »
For small logs, I think 1-1.5" should do well.  Bigger ones, due to larger diameter, will have less to bite, but then again, the big ones handle themselves. 

Will measure mine when I get home.  I'm certain they aren't over 2" high.  Sitting at work babysittting a furnace due to an after hours alarm call.   >:(

Would be good to get/make a wooden mallet or rubber/plastic hammer.  Don't want to knock Aluminum around too much.

Putting the metal backing between the T-bolt and bunk sounds like it will work.  Missed that detail in first read.  Doesn't work well without it after a while.   ;D
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Offline TKehl

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 11:29:34 pm »
Yup, Mobile Dimension dogs are 1.5" above the bunks.
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Offline red

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2017, 05:27:51 am »
I can remember way back in 2005 forestry forum member JPGREEN making log dogs . Called Gripper Dogs  and he posted a trip to Bailey's to give them a sales pitch.  There are many ideas on this subject keep using the search feature .
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2017, 06:51:41 am »
Thing about the dogs is that when you really need them is when you are down to the last couple of boards from the bottom slab. Before that the weight of the log and some notches or wedges keep the log in place.

So keep the dogs as low to the bunks as possible.  So from your wood prototype I would move the "tooth" bit to the side of the "carrier". Then the whole unit is only ~2" above the bunk, and you can throw that bottom piece on the slab pile. If your dogs are 4" up, you are probably throwing away a couple of good boards.
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Offline ButchC

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2017, 07:01:46 am »
Thing about the dogs is that when you really need them is when you are down to the last couple of boards from the bottom slab. Before that the weight of the log and some notches or wedges keep the log in place.

So keep the dogs as low to the bunks as possible.  So from your wood prototype I would move the "tooth" bit to the side of the "carrier". Then the whole unit is only ~2" above the bunk, and you can throw that bottom piece on the slab pile. If your dogs are 4" up, you are probably throwing away a couple of good boards.

X2,
 I have yet to find need for anything but the weight of the log until down to the last cuts.  Of course that depends on how hard you push the saw and my JP doesn't have the HP that you have either.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2017, 08:30:04 am »
Thanks to all for the tips. I think I'm going to go with one and a half inches on the tooth arrangement.  I'll ask him to spread them out a little bit as Ianab  recommends, closer to the edges of the channel with 2 bends into a U shape, but still sitting on top, since that will enable simpler fabrication, using one bent piece of stock.  That way the whole thing will only be about 1.5 inches above the 6x6 bunk in total, and with a good bite.  The wooden teeth in the prototype were greatly exaggerated, I didn't want to challenge my woodworking "skills" too much.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2017, 02:20:39 pm »
Make that 1 inch, after some other comments were made privately. That'll make the top of the spike about 1 1/4 inches high in total. Picking these up after July 4.  Keeping in mind that I can shim these up probably easily another inch in front if necessary.   The 6 inch length gives me more flexibility in that regard than the Peterson dogs.

An extra comment: I milled the rest of my 4 foot long without any log dogs  on the last couple of boards, yesterday. It was the log that I put a flat side on first, so maybe that's cheating. It vibrated a little bit when I got down to the last inch so I pushed/pulled  very slowly, and I can't say the cut was perfect, but I'm new & "learning disproportionally", so I'm easier to satisfy.

Hit my head on the high rail for the second time yesterday, yeoww, never knew I could bleed that much, got to hang some flagging tape on there.   It's not the rail's fault--I tend to look down when I'm walking on uneven ground, such as that where the mill is currently set up.

It was not while I was milling, but rather while I was pulling the cover off.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 02:26:34 pm »
I don't have a mill like yours. Do you just tap them in?
That's the way they work, yes. I'll post photographs when I get mine to make it more clear.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 01:29:06 am »
Baby's first photograph  smiley_antlers

 

 

 They can be individually shimmed up for a higher hold point.  Taking the advice of posters above, the (minimum) total height is 1.25 inches, above the 6x6.

 The flat back on each one is for rubber hammer use.

Tap that dog
Into that log;
Then turn that bolt
To make it holdt.

 Better Living (for the blade if I hit one) through the chemistry of aluminum.
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Offline TKehl

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 07:35:19 am »
If they work as good as they look, you'll be set!
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 06:56:32 am »
Why just aluminum steel is far more durable and cost effective and in that size weight is no concern. Looks like you could cut square steel tube in half and make more. A pair could be made to cut down to an inch from a cant. I don't own a swinger but both my circular and band mill will cut 1" last board. Frank C.
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Offline TKehl

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 08:12:01 am »
Aluminum is more forgiving in case of an oops with the blade. 

The ones Lucas offers are cast aluminum.  I think other swing manufacturers as well but not certain.
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Offline Savannahdan

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 10:49:58 am »
Mind me asking what those cost you and are  the spring part welded inside?
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Offline cwimer973

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2017, 11:47:06 am »
Orange Cone: Saftey check cause I have tossed small piece of log pretty far when not held down. Any chance this prototype could get airborne?

Solid design regardless, my original LT-10 log dog with the clamp handle falls all the time, the newer threaded rod type works like a charm and gives enough length for tough grabs.  Haven't replaced the old one, just use both now.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 11:08:58 pm »
I'll let you know the total cost when I get the invoice, but I had eight of them made +32 pieces of the L-shaped aluminum to go between the bolts and the wood on the bunks.

BTW I have already managed to lightly christen one of the log dogs with some shine from the swing blade.  I'm a newbie, but, steel...Nyet.

I didn't understand your question about the "spring" part?

I milled the 6x6s to replace the railroad ties as log support bunks, so I'll have more pictures soon.

I had to drill and tap the holes for the T bolts.  One thing I have learned so far:  I needed to use a jig so that my tapping process made threads 90 to the new log dogs.  The first holes that I tapped have some variation, and it has caused the log dogs to move around when I tighten the T bolts onto the bunks.  I may redrill/retap them while using a piece of 2x4 with a hole to keep my tapping work straight. The drillpress assures the holes start out that way,  but the tapping process is totally manual, and I wobbled.

 Based on my experience so far, I highly recommend the 1.5 ton aluminum jack from Harbor freight for working with the rails and leveling everything. It is a very light, about 25 pounds, low profile, starting out at just over 3 inches.   I am considering buying several more to use for my portable Peterson arrangement.    The warranty is only three months, but the price is right, and the product performs.  The 10 inch drill press and the tapping/die set is from there also.   I know the quality is what it is, but the customer service  including product knowledge was as good as my favorite neighborhood hardware store; referring to the Richmond Virginia (W Broad St) & Mechanicsville, VA stores.

 That 1.5 ton AL jack is on sale till the end of the month for $60.   When I think about how heavy the various older Sears jacks were, all steel as they were, my back says why did you think of this sooner.   OK, looks like shameless commerce for those guys, but HF supports the Forum, and I call it like I see it.
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Offline MbfVA

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 11:16:45 pm »
Orange Cone: Saftey check cause I have tossed small piece of log pretty far when not held down. Any chance this prototype could get airborne?

 ...the newer threaded rod type works like a charm and gives enough

They will be tightened  down, but possibilities abound, chaps and head/eye protection, always.

Just about everyone who owns a mill that I spoke with before buying warned me that thrown objects are an unpredictable hazard, maybe a little more so with the swing blade mills because of the big whirring blade, those carbide tips, and the fact that that particular kind of blade can carve off a pretty good sized chunk of wood if conditions are just right (a knot maybe?), which piece can wind up in unexpected places, and shall we say, very very quickly.

I met one mill owner who let his small children hang around while he was running his machine, way way too close.  I still shake a little bit when I think about the possibilities there.

I'd love to see photos of the new LT 10 dogs.
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Offline Savannahdan

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 06:46:06 am »
I was referring to the part that goes inside the dog.  It's the part that applies pressure to the bunk.  Lucas has those in their dogs.  Not sure what you'd call them other than spring.  BTW, Lucas recommends only tightening the bolt a 1/2 turn after you feel resistance.  This keeps from distorting the spring.
I'm a stickler for folks not hanging around the mill.  I also have experienced wood chips getting into the eye while running the mill even when I had a safety helmet with screen (yes, screen was down) and safety glasses.  Had this happen with a CSM also but in that case you really are right at the action.
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Offline plantman

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 01:47:50 pm »
Would it be helpful to mill half the log and then flip it over onto it's flat surface and mill the other half ?

Offline Ianab

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 06:11:22 pm »
You can do that, but it's hard work with a larger log. It does give you one full live edge slab from each log if you have a use for them.

If you have problems securing the bottom slab for the last couple of boards, just put it aside. Then when you are 1/2 way through the next log, and have a good flat surface, with a step left on the right, grab the earlier remnants and sit them on top. Because you now have a flat board, sitting on a flat log, with a step on the side, should stay in place. Lift the mill back up a couple of inches, and recover those last couple of boards. You end up back where you where with the mill, and ready to carry on with that log.

And yes the blades can throw debris. Have any bystanders behind you, and have your off loader stacking boards on the side away from the blade. Any debris are most likely to go in an arc straight down the line, around to maybe 90deg on the blade side. Don't let folks stand there.

I've been clobbered once by a fist sized knot that had been cut free on a previous cut. The blade managed to pick it up, it bounced around the frame and flew out the back, directly into my kneecap. Luckily I had saw chaps on, so no damage, just a few select words I can't repeat here. So keep an eye out for those loose missiles as you are cutting, and if you see something like that, knock it off the log before the next board.
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Offline plantman

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2017, 05:20:25 pm »
I'm going to watch the owner of a D&L 1020 mill some wood tomorrow. Think I'll take a movie clip and post it here. There aren't enough homemade movies to give people unbiased opinions, all the good, bad, and ugly.

Offline MbfVA

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Re: Log dog project for Peterson WPF, quick comments solicited
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2017, 08:57:14 pm »
X2 Plantman

Too many sales videos, not enough of end user people using the things, leaving in the mistakes.  I'll look forward to seeing your D & L video. A new guy on here who lives in Kentucky has just bought one, cannot recall his handle at the moment.   I'll try to make sure he sees it when you post.
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