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Sawing Framing Material for Kiln Build

Started by PA_Walnut, January 19, 2018, 07:42:25 AM

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PA_Walnut

The weather is a heat-wave here with an expected 45-50° today and tomorrow.
I have a site prepared for a new kiln install (KD250--4000bf Woodmizer).

The book calls for 2x4 construction. Gonna saw out my dimensional lumber from poplar and/or black oak. I do not regularly saw building material. Any recommends...even if it's, "Forget it and go to Lowes..." I have the logs in the yard, so just trying to be mindful, but labor is worth $$.

Also, despite the manual, should I consider 2x6?
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

I suggest 2x6 minimum sizes in your area...you need the extra insulation.  Yellow po-lar will work fine.  Oak is too hard to nail and too heavy.  The wooden floor might be better made from treated wood.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

PA_Walnut

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense. I will put the floor on concrete for strength .  Insulate under the concrete, but how thick should I make the slab ?
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

scsmith42

If you're going to be driving a forklift over it, I'd be sure that the base was well compacted and make the slab 5" - 6" thick.  If no forklift, then 4" should be fine.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

PA_Walnut

The slab will be the size of the building. No driving over it, but placing heavy loads on top of it. My tractor will do appx 5000# at a shot.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

E-Tex

PA.....good luck with the kiln build.  what will the kiln dimensions be?
I was looking at your gallery and saw those "spiral-fluted" stickers.  I have seen them before.  where do you get those?
LT-50 Wide, Nyle 200Pro Kiln, Mahindra 6065, Kubota 97-2 / Forestry Mulcher 
L2 Sawmill LLC

PA_Walnut

Etex, thanks for the encouraging words. Making the chamber able to fit two 12' long stacks 2x high and 2x deep. So, 12x8x8 charge, plus room for kiln unit and doors, etc. = 14 long x 10 deep x 10 high. (adding 8:12 peaked roof adding another 67" to overall height).

I wonder if someone (Gene?) can comment about WM's (Nyle's) Building Size:Size of Package Calcs. They have width calcs listed at 3'and 6' for 12' lumber. (12' is the max I go. Don't care to handle 16'. My entire workflow is set for 8,10,12'). A 12'x6'x82" (41 courses) package results in 3000BF.

I desire to do 12'x8'x96" (48 courses). Any foreseen issues? I'm moderately concerned about the charge being deeper than listed, causing airflow issues from front to back. I don't wish to do it twice so and comments? Might consider going to 16' wide (well 17') so I could place four(4) 8' charges...2 across and 2 deep.

Would appreciate insights from those who have gone before me. Digging for the slab this weekend.

On the stickers, they come from kilnsticks.com. They are NOT cheap and sometimes take a while to get, but are the ultimate solution for trouble woods like maple, etc. I have a ton of $$ invested in them and keep getting more. Kelvin, who makes them is a super dude to deal with too!
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

E-Tex

PA.....thanks.

can't wait to see the kiln build.  please keep us all up to date with pics!
LT-50 Wide, Nyle 200Pro Kiln, Mahindra 6065, Kubota 97-2 / Forestry Mulcher 
L2 Sawmill LLC

YellowHammer

Make sure the concrete floor is dead, absolutely dead, flat.  The lumber will take on the shape of the floor.  If the floor is humped or warped in plane, then so will the wood. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

PA_Walnut

Yellow. Great reminder! I am not an experience concrete pro, so maybe I should get someone who is. Only get one shot at it.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

Don P

For the framing I'd shoot for 1-9/16" or so thick so regular sinker nails will work. Full dimension 2x is stronger but then folks use regular length nails... the weak link then and almost always is, the connection

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

As a general rule, the kiln should have at least 24" between the edge of the pile and the wall.  This is on both sides of the pile.  Having a plenum that is too wide is not helpful as the air flow will  be uneven, top to bottom.   For air dried wood going into a kiln, the plenum space can be a bit smaller, as air flow no longer greatly affects drying speed...at low MCs, we are waiting for the water to wiggle it's way out of the wood and not for the air to scrub the moisture off the surface.

A 6' wide stack that is 8' High will be somewhat tippy.  It would be good to use 4x4s about 4' up to provide stability.

As the pile gets wider, or you use two piles wide, you need larger fans to maintain good air flow for lumber above 20% MC.  With two stacks wide, there are more air leaks.  We also need about 4" space between two adjacent piles, edge to edge, so that the air flow can adjust between the piles.  With 12' total air flow (two 6' Wide packs), you also might want to have reversible fans when drying wetter wood.  Otherwise you might have a moisture gradient, edge to edge with one direction fans.

One reason for using commercial 2x6s is that their uniform size will mean flatter, straighter walls and roof.  Appearance does not affect drying rate, but a nice looking building does affect the impression that any customers might have.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

PA_Walnut

Thanks WoodDoc,
My thinking is on par with what you are saying...I think.

I'm definitely going with 2x6's, per your recommendation. Just makes good sense.

On size, the 6' load is per Nyle's chart on charge vs. building size. They list 3' packs and ALL of mine are built on 4' sizing and I air dry them on pallets we build. So, ALL the loads going in, will be 4' x 8' or 12'. I would like to go two deep if 8' total is going to work. If so, will I need more, or upgrade the fans that come with the unit? Again, I expect to go 8' deep max.

Most of my material going in, will be air dried for a least a while, but I cut a fair amount of maple that I'd like to get in right away to keep it as white as possible.

Totally with you on appearance having a nice impression. Our entire business model is based on experience, quality and aesthetics. We try to keep things clean, orderly and looking like a place you'd like to come...and even bring your kids.

Thanks for all the advice.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

For maple, get it in the kiln ASAP if you want white maple.  You also would be better to reduce the size of the packs for maple...maybe 4'.  The issues are fan volume and the ability of the unit to get the initial RH low enough for a full kiln load of maple.

Very tippy...be safe. 

For all the others, the fans will be ok for air dried and a wide load.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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