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Author Topic: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?  (Read 1061 times)

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Offline windfall

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wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« on: June 20, 2017, 10:33:30 pm »
Another question folks...thanks for any help!  The joint where tie beam connects to the post, and the corresponding wall plates come in to the post from both sides is my concern.  How do I peg the wall plates with the tie beam in the way?  Is the wall plate wedged from above similar to a wedged half dovetail tenon? The post is a 8x10 , tie beam is 8x12 and wall plates are 7x10.  Not sure the best way to secure the wall plate tenon joint? Thanks

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 10:35:38 pm »
Normally you don't do that. You should have these timbers join the wall post at a different elevation so that you don't have a four way joint. Taking all the wood out of the post to create a four way joint will seriously weaken the post.

Jim Rogers
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Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline windfall

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017, 10:42:36 pm »
Hi Jim, good thing I did not mortice it out yet...I was kinda thinking that, but I had seen some joints like that on existing barns(photos) so perhaps they used much wider posts?  I Guess I will need to figure a way to stagger the wall plate lower then tie beam and cripple up for same height later?

Offline jimdad07

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 11:06:41 pm »
Out of curiosity are you just talking about the girts that connect wall post to wall post (I called them wall plates too for a long time)? If so what kind of loads are you figuring for a 7x10 girt?  My other question is do you have a floor above the tie beams?
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

Offline windfall

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 12:31:31 am »
I'm referring to the wall plate from exterior post to exterior post, so yes...I suppose I'm using the wrong label for them, thanks.  It will help carry  the floor load.  Yes a floor is going above the tie beams. 

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2017, 12:51:19 am »
So will there be floor joists going from tie-beam to tie-beam?  And the wall girts just carrying a little bit of the floor load?  On my timber frame, the floor joists are close to the posts and way above the girts.  I just let the floor boards "float" the 8" or 10" to the wall boards.  It is less than half the distance the floor joists are so no worry.  I will probably put a 2x4 or something to tie the ends of the floor boards together at the wall which will act a little like trim molding from below.  My model I build over the winter when having "cabin fever" ;)

 

 
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline windfall

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 01:21:47 am »
Wow...looks like a great design and amazing location! Yes, the joists will go from Tie-beam to tie-beam.  The way you did that does offer another possible solution.  The upstairs portion is truly extra space tools storage hay loft etc....so that would work....so many different ways...thanks!

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 01:33:56 am »
Wow...looks like a great design and amazing location!
;D Look again.  That is just a scale model on my back porch railing overlooking my overgrown backyard!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline jimdad07

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 06:41:44 am »
That's no model...he's Just a really tiny guy!

What I did with my girts at the tie beam was out a half inch housing for the top girt to support the edge of my floor and secured them with timberlocs.  I am using 4x6 girts.  The girts on my building are just for siding, the top plates are what will tie your bents together.  You could probably save yourself a lot of material and go with a smaller girt unless you just like the look of the bigger girts, keep in mind though how much material will be coming out of the posts for girts that big when you mortise the posts.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2017, 09:42:32 am »
As mentioned if your floor joists are flush with the top of the tie beam then at the wall you just need a floor joist. Not a huge timber like a 7x10. And as mentioned it is only holding up half of what the other floor joists are holding up so it can be smaller.

Sometimes we do a "slide in" floor joists.
That is we just cut a small pocket for the floor joist to slide into from the outside:

 

 

That way it doesn't take a lot of wood out of the post. And the siding can be nailed onto the slide in floor joist to hold it in place as well as supporting it.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline windfall

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2017, 12:59:23 pm »
Thanks all...some great ideas, I will go with the slide in floor joice from the exterior side.  Again thanks so much for the information, I'm putting this together after work each day, no cover from weather, and lots of help from my seven year old! :)

Offline jimdad07

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2017, 10:38:26 pm »
Thanks all...some great ideas, I will go with the slide in floor joice from the exterior side.  Again thanks so much for the information, I'm putting this together after work each day, no cover from weather, and lots of help from my seven year old! :)

We related?  How big of a building you working on?
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.

Offline windfall

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 02:35:41 am »
not in the literal sence, but if your doing a similar build program with kid in tow...you know how challenging and of course...how fun it can be! 48x24 high post barn. You?

Offline jimdad07

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Re: wall plate tie beam connection to peg or wedge?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 06:52:24 am »
28x50, two story...or loft if you will.  I've got a build thread going.
Hudson HFE 30 Homesteader bandmill w/28' of track
Couple tractors, a bunch of chainsaws and not enough time to use them.