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Official MS261CM vs 550XP test

Started by HolmenTree, June 06, 2017, 10:46:34 PM

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John Mc

Sounds as though that dealer has some issues. You have to wonder how common the sorts of things you've run into are with them -- and how many less-knowledgeable customers never figure it out.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HolmenTree

Quote from: John Mc on October 06, 2017, 07:25:13 AM
Sounds as though that dealer has some issues. You have to wonder how common the sorts of things you've run into are with them -- and how many less-knowledgeable customers never figure it out.
John, absolutely.
Since hand logging has been extinct in this area for over 20 years the market is homeowner and casual.
I have finally come to realize I need to start up a service for my community to repair and sharpen chainsaws plus get into the retail end too.
Quote from: weimedog on October 06, 2017, 06:51:56 AM
Does your 550 have the latest and greatest carb & software updates? Some 550's would really benefit from those. Might be fun (for me) to take an early version and build it into the latest possible iteration with a tweak or two. Junk pile saw build to match in performance the best you can buy in the class now..:)
Walter, this 550  is brand new built in the spring of 2016. The first 550 on this test with all the defects was built in August 2016.
Not sure about the latest upgrades.  I take for granted my dealer tech did all that for me.
So far it's running great, a little cold blooded warming up and staying warm but is a little stick of dynamite delimbing spruce and  fir.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Here is the 45 year old 15 inch .050 bar I plan on cutting down to 13 inch or 14 inch and run it on the 550XP.
On it is the now extinct low profile 3/8" Stihl 33 Topic Super chisel chain. Cutter size of a .325, both take a 3/16" file.
The 33Topic Super has a full 3/8" chassis that will fit on a standard 3/8" rim and bar nose sprocket.

Bottom pic is of a 33RS (top) 33TS (middle) and a .325 pitch 35 RM on the bottom.

The 13 or 14" bar with large 11 T nose sprocket would be highly durable and ergonomic in high production small conifer cutting.
Plus the low profile 33Topic Super chisel chain would offer a chain with a stronger chassis then a .325
And offer a smoother lower kickback energy chain on the larger 11 tooth bar nose sprocket.



  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

weimedog

Quote from: HolmenTree on October 06, 2017, 08:28:18 AM
Walter, this 550  is brand new built in the spring of 2016. The first 550 on this test with all the defects was built in August 2016.
Not sure about the latest upgrades.  I take for granted my dealer tech did all that for me.
So far it's running great, a little cold blooded warming up and staying warm but is a little stick of dynamite delimbing spruce and  fir.

Sounds like 550 "2.0" is ripping along just fine then. Bob would know when the latest and greatest entered the pipeline. As far as dealers are concerned, I'm fortunate to have Bob in the mix and the local dealers have radically upgraded their capability...:) As far as upgrades, its taken a while for me to "settle" with the concept if a saw is running really well....it doesn't need upgrades. Statistically there will be a few that should have never left the factory, and some at the wrong end of a tolerance stack where its worth going through the upgrades. Sounds like the two you have (had) represent the first scenario ..runs great..leave it along! AND the last where it should never have left the factory. Also sounds like Husqvarna made things right. Is that a fair representation? Learned of a couple of upgrades but it sounds like your saw isn't a candidate or already has them..:) Definitely a older 550 saw with starting issues would benefit..I have a "dead" early one I acquired....going to build it...:)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

HolmenTree

I got a phone call last night from a reader here on Forestry Forum.
He was asking why I would run a short 13 or 14 inch bar and chain on my 550XP.

Well as I have explained in above posts the 550XP is a highly desired saw for production cutting in small conifer (spruce, pine, balsam fir) what is found in the Boreal forests of Scandinavian and other parts of the upper northern hemisphere, where I am also included.

I've posted this video before but as a reminder and as new information for readers here who not seen it.
Take a look at this old video from the early 1980's of Soren Eriksson a renowned Swedish logging instructor and founder of the Game of Logging.

He explains the advantages of the bench height 6 point delimbing technique.
What appears to be a 16" inch b/c on his 034AV he still shows how ergonomic this saw can be.
Scandinavian professional loggers back in the day and probably the few hand loggers still left today prefer the 14 inch b/c on a 40-50cc saw.

http://youtu.be/xX9Xj0faq3g
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Put alot of wood on the ground for 2 customers today, with the MS261 and 550XP.
I got the 550XP converted over to a 13 inch b/c that I modified from a old 15" Homelite bar. Running  a loop of Stihl 33TS low profile chisel 3/8" on it.
It cuts like a light saber in the small spruce and amazing to handle.
The bar is over 40 years old and the chain is 30.

You have to remember when these felled spruce are laying on the ground the trunks are up in the air at knee level, which makes the 13 inch b/c work really well for limbing and bucking.


  

  

  

 

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ButchC

Back in the 70s-80s McCulloch also had small chassis full chisel, short cutter 3/8 chain similar to that 33TS. It was factory issue chain on saws like the Pro Mac 610 and 650 and of course available where they sold the saws. I wasnt enough into saws at that time to know any part numbers or who made it but I do remember distinctly when it was no longer available  and their was some talk of patent infringements at the saw shop? That chain sharpened with a 3/16 or 5/32? file and was VERY fast in the cut.  This chain is not to be confused with their mini 3/8  saw chain that sharpened with a  file the size of a needle, I think 1/8?  When McCulloch chain was no longer available my saw shop switched to a regular full sized Oregon chain it slowed my old PM 650 down considerably and I hated it. I bought quite a few PM 610 and 650 saws at farm sales just to get the McCulloch chains off of them. If they ran I refitted Oregon chains and sold them,if not they went in the heap of back of the shop.  Yes I had a lot of money in those chains but back in the day we didnt have the Internet to make us smart from reading threads like this ;) and we went with what we knew worked well.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

HolmenTree

Excellent post Butch.
The Stihl 33-35 Topic Super and Oregon 76-77 LG takes a 3/16" file. The smaller Stihl 60 series Picco and Oregon 91 series take a 5/32" file.

Every sawchain and chainsaw company back in the 1970's tried to out do each other with patents.
But Oregon on numerous attempts to patent the 90 series and then the 76 series ended up suing everybody . Kind of like the big neighborhood bully.

The whole idea of making these smaller 3/8" chains was to save money in the manufacturing process....fewer pieces to make a foot of chain.

Starting back in the early 1960's when cheaper low powered consumer saws became poplar, the saw companies needed a small chain to enable these saws to cut efficiently.
So born was the 1/4"-.250 chain. But with so many more smaller pieces per foot it wasn't economical.
Thus in the early 1970's  the Oregon 91 series was invented (patent law suits as another company invented it too, bigger company wins out).
91 series was a extended 1/4" pitch cutter bit on a 3/8" chassis. But the extra small links needed a slightly larger sprocket which changed the pitch slightly . Only 91 series bar nose and drive sprockets were a match.

The 76 series and Topic Super 3/8 chisels were basically a extended .325 pitch cutter bit on a 3/8" pitch chassis. These chains were compatible to be run on a standard 3/8" pitch sprockets.

Back in the 1970's the timbersport competitors figured out to make a fast race chain you can put full size 3/8" chisel bit cutters on the smaller 76LG chassis.
Like in this pic.


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Weekend_Sawyer

How did you cut down the bar.

That would be a good thread to start.

Thanks
Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

HolmenTree

Quote from: Weekend_Sawyer on October 11, 2017, 12:34:44 PM
How did you cut down the bar.

That would be a good thread to start.

Thanks
Jon
Jon, I'd like to start a post on it but later this winter in my off season. Still lots of cutting to do yet.

I got about about 10 of these old Homelite bars some up to 20".
As you can see they have a skinny little tail that I easily cut off and shaped with a side grinder thin disc.
Even cut the rail slot out with the grinder disc as I shaped the tail to fit the Husqvarna small mount.
The Homelite mount slot is the same size as the 550's which was easy to go by when extending the slot further ahead.
You can do alot in a short time with a bench vise, power tools and a file.



  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Here's a few pics I saved on the 13" bar build.
As first pic shows bar tail has to match a standard 3/8" 7 tooth small 7 spline rim sprocket.
Two tail pieces are cut off with side grinder. Tail is  marked for shaping, then shaped with a 6" diameter green stone on a bench grinder.
Then finished smoothing hardened rails with a fine oil stone. Still lots of factory hardened rail surface left as it's a 1/4" deep from the rail surface.
One more hole was drilled at end of marked slot to finish cutting with cut off wheel.
2 blind oil holes were then drilled along with 2 adjuster pin holes.

Last pic shows thickness of side grinder cut off disc is .052". Perfect for cutting the depth of the .050 rail groove on the new tail.



  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Weekend_Sawyer


Amazing, I never would have thought of cutting a chainsaw bar down.
Thanks, your posts are always interesting.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Maine372

what can you tell us about the roller nose bar tip?

HolmenTree

Quote from: Maine372 on October 12, 2017, 01:47:35 PM
what can you tell us about the roller nose bar tip?
That 2 7/8" roller nose attached to the sprocket nose tip was a little modification I did so I could run either .404 or 3/8 chain on my Alaskan mill.

That bar was a 36" .404 12 tooth sprocket nose bar that originally came on my Stihl 090AV when I bought it new 25 years ago.
No fancy machinist tools needed, just a side grinder, bench grinder and a drill press. :)


  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

thecfarm

I have an Efco 152,about 50cc with an 18 inch bar. Bury the bar and it does not like it. I agree with the short bar. Short chains and bars cost less too.  ;D  But the bigger bar makes the saw look more powerful.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

Quote from: thecfarm on October 12, 2017, 08:01:53 PM
But the bigger bar makes the saw look more powerful.

Which is why the big box stores always put ridiculously large bars on their cheap saws - it makes them look like something they are not.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Maine372

not to hijack the thread, but why did the roller nose fall out of style? are they still available anywhere? wouldn't there be an issue with smaller limbs getting in that little gap and derailing the chain?

ButchC

Quote from: John Mc on October 12, 2017, 08:51:06 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on October 12, 2017, 08:01:53 PM
But the bigger bar makes the saw look more powerful.

Which is why the big box stores always put ridiculously large bars on their cheap saws - it makes them look like something they are not.


And many people know little more about a saw than how long the bar is,,,

My father in law was astonished that I have over $1000 in a "20 inch" saw when he only paid $150 for his 18" saw,,,  Mine is a 461 Stihl, his is a Wild Thing,,,
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

HolmenTree

Quote from: Maine372 on October 13, 2017, 06:57:29 AM
not to hijack the thread, but why did the roller nose fall out of style? are they still available anywhere? wouldn't there be an issue with smaller limbs getting in that little gap and derailing the chain?
Maine372,
Windsor introduced the Speed Tip replaceable sprocket nose bar in 1971.  After that those old rollers went out of production.
Their weakness was not so much the problem of twigs  getting into the gap and derailing the chain. Main problem was the nose to bar joint was weak  and the rollers broke off easily.
Very hard to find them today, I have 6 Oregon 2 7/8" rollers, a couple still brand new in their paper envelops.
Here's 4 of them hanging on my wall. Longest is a 5 footer with helper handle, next one up is my 36" milling bar. Last 2 above are competition bars for my Yamaha bike saw.


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Maine372

I think they are really neat, thank you for sharing.

HolmenTree

Quote from: Maine372 on October 13, 2017, 10:02:23 PM
I think they are really neat, thank you for sharing.
Your welcome buddy,
It's Friday night, starting to snow outside and I'm motivated to get my chainsaw shop organized for the winter off season.

Tree work business is winding down for the year, and I decided to get into the chainsaw repair and sharpening business for my 5 month winter off season.
I still got to do the 550XP vs MS261C power bucking test. That might have  to happen in February when I'm doing the Northern Manitoba Trappers Festival Logger Sports.

This is what I have on my bench tonight trying to organize  :D


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

JJinAK

HolmanTree- what is the vice looking thing in the lower right of your pic?  Is that a chain breaker?
MS461
MS362

HolmenTree

JJ, that's a chain spinner . Use that to make up loops of chain. The yellow thing behind and to the right of it is a Stihl bench mount chain breaker. Best breaker I've ever owned.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Well it's official. My newspaper ad from yesterday.
I spent over 40 years working on my own saws, now it's time to work on others. I'm open to any advice.


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

BradMarks

Hard to give advice to someone who has been in biz 40 yrs already ;D. Only thing I can say is good luck and don't make promises!

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