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backhoe from scratch and scrap

Started by grouch, June 06, 2017, 09:06:12 AM

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grouch

Thanks Ox! Glad it's not too boring for you!

KY has hills and mixed hardwoods. The little I've seen of AL was red clay and pines as tall as GA's.

Everybody builds on the ideas and work of others. I've seen pictures of people using a "mag drill" setup to get properly aligned holes, but I can't afford (or rationalize) one of those. Making do has been a way of life -- I figured out a long time ago that I don't have the temperament necessary to accumulate piles of money -- so "use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without".

Ready to start posting pics of the actual backhoe build now. It was almost exactly 3 years between starting to accumlate steel and that photo of the bucket full of top soil, above. The front loader is the most useful part, and necessary for counterweight, but the backhoe was more complex. Building the loader first also gave me enough practice at welding to tackle some of the heavy pieces needed for a backhoe.

Going back through files, I found that my earliest CAD drawings were not in Qcad but in an old DOS program called Turbocad (release 3). I spent Friday night getting that thing to export all the old drawings to dxf format so other CAD programs can read them. None of those were useful in the end.

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grouch

One more shot showing the utility of that front end loader.


Salvaging old floor joists -- 2x10x8 -- and storing them in the garage loft. Sure made it easier than carrying them up a ladder one at a time.
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grouch

Backhoe boom.


That's a 5 inch square tube. My metal cutting bandsaw cuts up to 4-1/2 inches, so it required flipping to get all the way through. Finished angle of the boom is 35 degrees (or 145, depending on how you look at it).




I tried to grind a 45 degree bevel on the matching ends.




That's sitting on one of the 4x8 rectangular tubing pieces to keep everything flat.


Tacked -- 1/8 inch 6011 rod at 85A DCEP.


Might have been better to sacrifice another grinding disk even if using 6011.


Flopped to get the last 2 tacks.




And the mutant steel seagull with diarrhea strikes again.
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grouch

Boom base.


A mock-up using 4 pieces of 1x3 inch flat bar and a pile of weights from a weight-lifting machine.


Three 3x16 hydraulic cylinders hiding in boxes.


I don't remember how I came up with this contraption. It wasn't very good for milling a radius.






It did work, but it tried to get me a couple of times.




I don't know if these blue chips are a good thing or a bad thing...


... and my supervisor wasn't any help at all.


Milled, drilled and welded together.


1/4-20 bolts used to hold things in alignment while welding.


A mirror image pair.
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grouch

Boom base boring.


The problem was getting that welded chunk in the vise with the pre-bored holes perpendicular to the table. There's no guarantee that the 1/4 inch holes bored before welding were still parallel after welding. There's also no guarantee that any of that 1 inch thick flat bar was still flat. Note how much is hanging out of the vise. It wasn't bored in that position.

I just picked one hole, used a 1/4 inch pin in the milling machine to align with it, then bored to 1-1/4 inch for the hydraulic cylinder pins. Alignment consisted of putting the pin just barely snug in the collet and then running the quill up and down while adjusting the part until the pin would slide into and out of the hole without moving in the collet.

After that, the part had to be repositioned in the vise and realigned for boring the 2nd hole. The above photo was taken after that repositioning.  The alignment device is just one of the cylinder pins with one end turned down to fit the milling machine collet.


The second hole to be bored is the out of focus one on the far right in the photo.


2nd hole bored.




This goes on the end of the boom as 1/2 of the pivot for the dipper.


1/2 inch thick with a 1-1/4 inch diameter hole.


Parts for the boom base hinge -- the swing -- made from 1 inch thick plates salvaged from a weight lifting machine (the pieces shown in an earlier photo).


Testing the fit.
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Magicman

Your machine work is terrific but I am seeing buildup on your welds.  Are you using enough "heat" and getting deep enough?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

grouch

Quote from: Magicman on August 14, 2017, 08:23:12 AM
Your machine work is terrific but I am seeing buildup on your welds.  Are you using enough "heat" and getting deep enough?

Oh my goodness, the machine work worried me even more than the welding -- I don't know anything about using a lathe or milling machine except what I've read. Thanks!

My welding suffers from slowness. A lot of the beads you see are multiple passes in grooves or bevels. (A lot of them are also multiple passes after grinding out the previous ones because of pits or slag inclusions or just plain lack of penetration or fusion). Any of them that look pretty, other than too tall, are the result of a cap bead or beads of 7018 on top of root passes of 6011.

With 6011, I can dig in pretty deep, but early on I wouldn't get enough heat and would end up with slag inclusions that I'd have to grind out and start again. With any rod (and 6011 and 7018 are my favorites), I tend to move too slow while watching to see that the puddle "wets out" both sides and then I get the big pile-up on top.

This particular piece was the toughest for me from start to finish. Part of the reason for that 1/2 inch plate sandwiched between the 1 inch pieces is because of a lack of confidence in welding the 1 inch, even with bevels. There's just no telling how many grinder discs and rods were sacrificed for this part.
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grouch

More boring.


This rusty 1/2 inch thick chunk is destined for the side of the boom, in the middle where the boom and dipper cylinders connect.


Each hole started as a center punch mark, then 1/4 inch drill, then a progression of end mills to the final diameter. (My milling machine does not like taking large bites at once; it's old and likes things pre-chewed).


Chips! But no dip.


The two holes nearest the center of the plate are 1-1/4 inch diameter. The ones near the ends are 1 inch. ASAE cylinders have 1-1/4 inch pins, but there are lots of non-SAE cylinders that use 1 inch pins. Since the plate was big enough, I included the option to use either. Easier to bore now than later.


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grouch

Boring the boom.


That's an awfully weak drill for the job. The boom was marked for the hole on each side, center punched, drilled to 1/4 inch for the pilot drill of the 2 inch hole saw. That tube on the right is 2 inch O.D. DOM (drawn over mandrel) with 3/8 inch wall. DOM is sold by the O.D. with no guarantee of the I.D. Each piece was bored to 1-1/4 inch I.D. for the pins.


The pilot drill keeps me straight.


Don't look at that extra center punch mark.


I didn't want to bore all the way through one side and lose the pilot hole for boring the other side, so...


... check the thickness of the boom tube ...


... and every now and then test the depth of the cut ...


... and swap sides when appropriate.


Still haven't figured out a use for that little steel wheel.


Test fit.


Both sides finished.


Test fit.


Slides without wobble.
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snowstorm

I would toss the 6011. I hate that stuff. It's fine for rusty dirty steel. But good 7018 is way better. And always use bolt hands. Steady is best. And then sometimes old used rusty steel just dosent weld like it should. No matter how much you grind

grouch

A welding safety warning.


Don't loan your helmet to the local wildlife.


These can distract you while welding and cause you to mess up a bead. Or your pants.
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grouch

Quote from: snowstorm on August 14, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
I would toss the 6011. I hate that stuff. It's fine for rusty dirty steel. But good 7018 is way better. And always use bolt hands. Steady is best. And then sometimes old used rusty steel just dosent weld like it should. No matter how much you grind

I can't do without 6011. It's all-position, the cellulose flux eats through just about anything, and it's 60,000 psi tensile strength. There's a reason why it's called "the farmer's friend" rod. You can't always move things or clean things.

7018 wants a pristine surface. I've seen people weld through rust with it, but I can't and the manufacturers all say to clean.

All of the steel I'm using is plain mild steel. Problems with welding it all come from me. :)
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Crusarius

I don't think your welds look terrible. the biggest thing I see is feed speed. Your speed appears to be inconsistent. that really is key to a good looking stick weld.

I also like to weld hotter than most ppl. But I typically weld 1/4" up to 1/2" plate. I get spoiled when I fab with 3/16".

Do you push or pull your puddle?

Magicman

My welding comment was based upon the thickness of the material that you are dealing with.  I was confidant that you knew what you were doing, but the buildup had me uneasy.  Thanks for the reassurance, now git back to work.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

grouch

Quote from: Crusarius on August 14, 2017, 07:30:59 PM
I don't think your welds look terrible. the biggest thing I see is feed speed. Your speed appears to be inconsistent. that really is key to a good looking stick weld.

I also like to weld hotter than most ppl. But I typically weld 1/4" up to 1/2" plate. I get spoiled when I fab with 3/16".

Do you push or pull your puddle?

"Inconsistent" is putting it mildly. :D

As to pushing or pulling, that depends on whether I can stand flat-footed or have to stand on my head. If I'm out of position, it's any way I can get that sucker to go where I want it. That may be what attracts the seagulls.


Quote from: Magicman on August 14, 2017, 07:54:48 PM
My welding comment was based upon the thickness of the material that you are dealing with. I was confidant that you knew what you were doing, but the buildup had me uneasy.  Thanks for the reassurance, now git back to work.   :D

Never thought I'd have you fooled!   :D :D

So far I have never had a weld fail. (Knock on wood).

When I started out with oxy-acetylene, my great (or grand? I get confused) uncle told me, "Crank it up until you burn it up, then back off a bit." He had been in the Army Corps of Engineers in WWII and was an all-around good tinkerer, farmer and builder all his life. I must've looked a little disappointed in the advice.
He said, "You've seen those Sunday comics characters with the sweat beads?"
"Yeah. Called 'sweatles'."
"Well, when you see those sweatles, it's about ready to form a puddle. You're not there yet, but be ready. It's not close to hot enough until you see them."
"Ok."
"You'll also smell Fritos corn chips."
"What? Suuure."
His advice helped me with gas welding, stick and MIG. Not enough heat means little or no fusion taking place.


(I'm trying not to monopolize the "Recent posts" thing; trying to time my piles of photos when there's not much activity).
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grouch

Boom base.


I didn't design this very well. It's too compact and complex.










This was a mistake. That bevel should be 30 to 45 degrees. It would be much easier to get a clean weld in there, then.


Look closely about the center of the photo and you can see where I had to use a rotary burr to gouge out some bad welds. That tight bevel shown in the previous picture was the problem. It took multiple attempts to get a good weld in that space.
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grouch

Roboduck.


Adding the swing wings to the boom base.




That dark chunk of steel from a weight-lifting machine, about center photo, is being used as a jig. It's bored for the spacing from the center pin to the swing pins.


Might be able to see it better this way.


Or this way.


Swing wings are on. This is the operator side of the boom base. Main hinge is in center photo, swing cylinder attachment points on either side, boom would be pointing back into the photo.


Looking down from above.


Note all the grinding.


Lots of side by side stringer beads of 7018 at 115A, DCEP. Balanced by similar beads on the underside of those wings. Looks a little overkill, in hindsight.


It's a steel roboduck!


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Kbeitz

I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

grouch

Quote from: Kbeitz on August 15, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...

But, are blue chips good, bad, or indifferent when coming from milling operations? Do they mean it's an optimum cut, overheated, or just coincidental?
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grouch

Rebore.


Reboring the holes for 2 inch DOM.


Closer view, to see the concentric rings of chips and oil.


Note the smaller disc. Boring this plate on the drill press, I needed the 1/4 inch pilot hole. The small disc fit in the 1-1/4 inch diameter hole previously bored and provided the pilot.


There's where it goes.


The dipper end of the boom.


Wider view of hi-tech working environment.


It wasn't easy to weld down in that gap where the rectangular tubing has a rounded edge.


The plates making up the hinge for the dipper started out as 1/2 inch thick. They look a little thin after milling the rust off. (Milling produces less dust than grinding).
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Crusarius

Quote from: grouch on August 16, 2017, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 15, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...

But, are blue chips good, bad, or indifferent when coming from milling operations? Do they mean it's an optimum cut, overheated, or just coincidental?

Blue chips are typically bad for tool life. Means your are cutting just a little to fast. Heat is the biggest killer of tools.

grouch

Quote from: Crusarius on August 17, 2017, 07:36:07 AM
Quote from: grouch on August 16, 2017, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 15, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...

But, are blue chips good, bad, or indifferent when coming from milling operations? Do they mean it's an optimum cut, overheated, or just coincidental?

Blue chips are typically bad for tool life. Means your are cutting just a little to fast. Heat is the biggest killer of tools.

Thanks Crusarius. I read so many confusing and sometimes contradictory things about feed rates that I ended up just running it according to how it sounded and felt. It's an all-manual mill, so feed rates depend on the operator. :)
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Crusarius

I am right there with ya. I do the same thing. Seems like there are 100 ways to do the same thing. The end result is the same but the processes are so different.

I just wish I had power feed. At least then I could start a long run and go do something else while I am waiting.

rjwoelk

Quote from: Magicman on August 12, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
The bucket build is going nicely.

I like that drill holder.  I have one that will break your arm or whatever else is between it and where it wants to go.   :-\  :-X
We were drilling for through pins on a adaptor and had 3 ft of pipe out the sides with 2 of us it at least stalled the drill.
Grouch like your drill press set up.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

rjwoelk

Grouch I love reading your stuff,  :D Good way to start the day.
Have to look you up some time in my trucking travels.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

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