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Author Topic: Starting to build the solar kiln  (Read 5693 times)

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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2017, 08:19:37 am »
It is not necessary to do this with the actual collector surfaces.  It does not help to have them parallel to the roof.  What if you are one or two layers of lumber short?  What if the pile shrinks in height as it dries?  You need to fill the gap so that all the air goes through the pile and not have some go over the top.  What if you have a few extra pieces of lumber--adding them to the top would mean no air flow for them.  If you load with a fork lift, this design makes the job very critical.

As you mention, the only black painted items are the surfaces that the sun "sees."
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2017, 01:14:20 pm »
FYI here is a photo of ff member Pineywoods very effective version of the solar kiln.  He will have to fill in the details as I don't recall, I took this pic years ago.

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Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2017, 02:49:20 pm »
Tough week for building.  Hi temps and humids.  Feels like fishfighter weather here.  I have been getting materials and cutting a lot of parts and this weeks got started with construction.  Slow going, but making progress.  Once I get the north wall stood up it should pick up speed if I get some time to work on it.

I appreciate all the input from everybody.

(Yellowhammer says he calls his the easy-bake oven.  I think I'll hang a couple pork butts in this thing and see how it comes out when I'm not running a load of lumber. ;) )

 

 

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2017, 12:08:21 am »
hmm pork Butts now we're talkin' . in all seriousness  I'm really looking forward to the build. I need to start mine but a pole barn is on the list first. keep us updated you know where all addicted to F.F. pics!

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2017, 07:17:26 am »
Btulloh, you have a heck of good start there.  Won't be long till completion. 8)
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
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The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2017, 09:30:35 pm »
Looks like longer to completion than I originally expected.  The weather and competing priorities have just about killed progress this week.  I'm getting a few odds and ends  taken care of, but really very little serious work on the kiln.  Not much is going to change on that until Monday or so. 

The hot weather forced me inside and I used some of the time to work on my drawings and some of the details which can eat up time at the finishing stages.  I also laid out a fairly good timeline for the remaining work and was surprised to find out that I'll need 110-120 man hours to finish this thing.  When I started I figured 40 or 50 for the whole job.  So much for optimism.  It's helpful to have a realistic timeline though.  Keeps expectations in line with reality.

(I think my 120 man-hours is about 30 Kbeitz-hours, but I'm just a mere mortal.)

(( The FF hosting server seems to have broken a drive belt tonight.  Lot's of time-outs)
HM126

Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 05:38:04 pm »
Any thoughts of elastomeric paint (or coating) for the inside of the kiln? 

I know that's a general category so I'm trying to get the specifics on what is available from an interesting new source I found.  Good prices on all kinds of paints and coatings.  I'd rather not use the asphalt type unless I have to.  I can also get aluminum paint at a good price but then I'd need a coat or two of black on top of that.
HM126

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 06:53:14 pm »
Any thoughts of elastomeric paint (or coating) for the inside of the kiln? 

I know that's a general category so I'm trying to get the specifics on what is available from an interesting new source I found.  Good prices on all kinds of paints and coatings.  I'd rather not use the asphalt type unless I have to.  I can also get aluminum paint at a good price but then I'd need a coat or two of black on top of that.

1/4 diesel and 3/4 tar mix. Takes about one week to dry.
Very cheap and it make a good vapor barrier.
Collector and builder of many things.
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And now a saw mill
and a bunch of new forum friends.

Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2017, 03:28:15 pm »
That stuff will work for sure K, but I'm just looking at alternatives.
HM126

Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2017, 03:40:53 pm »
Finally got some work done today.  Raised the walls, but didn't get all the siding completed like I expected.  Now I'm playing with fire with these evening storms we tend to get every day.  It's not in a good state to get a soaking.  I hope to get the rest of siding and the rafters on tomorrow .  Then Thursday morning I can get a coat of primer on the siding.  Primer and a tarp ought to keep me dry enough.  No showers expected tonight or tomorrow night.  Key word: EXPECTED.

Access to the inside is challenging with the doors fixed in position.  It'll probably be a few days before I'm ready to cut them loose from the header and jambs.  I almost left a couple timber screws in place that went through the jambs and into the door frame.  I caught it before I nailed the siding on the west wall.  That would have been a big issue.  Dodged a big one there. 


 

 


Offline fishfighter

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2017, 06:32:12 am »
Looking good. You even pick out a nice sunny spot for it. :D

Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2017, 07:46:30 am »
I'm getting kiln dried just working on it.  Next time I'm going to build in the shade.
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Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2017, 08:36:39 pm »
Thinking again - bad habit. 

Using two layers of polycarb, one on the top and and one on the underside of the rafters - wouldn't it be ok, or even better, to NOT paint the rafters black since that is in a separate air space from the inside of the kiln?  Seems like extra heat gain in the space between the two layers of polycarb would not benefit the kiln and would actually be detrimental to the roof structure.  ??
HM126

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2017, 10:59:33 pm »
I left mine unfinished for that reason, or more likely, I was lazy.   :D
Seriously, these kilns will get real hot, to the point shown in my other pictures of melting plastic and and scorching wood.  Get them away from any other building you might not want to burn down.  My first clear plastic tops melted away when we had a tornado nearby, and lost power for days.  The kiln was unloaded, so no heat sink, no moisture from the wood to cool things down, the fans weren't running and the upper vents were pretty much closed, so no circulation and all the heat pooled in the upper corners.  Very bad.  I didn't think to check it as I was more interested in other issues.  I melted the roof, it kind of sagged and folded in on itself.  After that, it was very brittle, it just fell apart in a good breeze. 


If it gets rained on during construction, don't worry, it's a kiln, it will dry out :D
 

 
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2017, 08:15:46 am »
You can buy polycarbonate panels that are already two layers with the two layers perhaps 1/4" apart. These are ideal.  You do not have to worry much about overheating with them.

Overall, two layers of any clear cover are important as they reduce the huge heat loss from one cover.  It makes a 20 F difference in kiln temperature (or larger) to use two.  I made three kilns with one, two and three layers and measured temperatures in 1962 at the US Forest Products Lab.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2017, 09:38:25 am »
I looked at those twinwall polycarb panels.  They look like the perfect solution but I haven't found them locally.  With the high shipping cost, it throws the economics out of whack.  If I found a local supplier it would be pretty much a slam dunk.  I'm still looking for a local vendor but so far, no luck.  They're probably around here, but . . .

I have about a week before I have to commit one way or the other, so I'm still looking.

Thanks - as always you have provided valuable information.

Thanks also  to YH for your input as well.  You always supply a good dose of practical reality.  Lazy is a good thing when it comes to painting.  When lazy and correct coincide, it's a good day.  Anything I can do to reduce the amount of time I'm holding a paint brush is a good thing.  I hate painting.  Especially inside an oven.  Even with no roof this is a hot thing to work on even before it gets its black paint.
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Offline fishfighter

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2017, 02:27:42 pm »
Some much good info here. Thanks. I will be using all this good info when I build mine. ;D

Offline btulloh

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2017, 06:17:02 pm »
All the siding is on and primed.  Two days of heavy weather is coming in and I really don't want to get it soaked.  I know YH said it would dry out, but the T1-11 takes up a lot of water and buckles badly, plus I just don't trust that whole drying itself out thing.  An ounce of tarp is worth a pound of drying, as Ben Franklin said.  So I wrapped it.  I'd rather be lazy, but I think discretion is the better part of procrastination.

Two days off for weather followed by some moderate temps.   

 
HM126

Offline samandothers

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2017, 09:10:53 pm »
Better safe than sorry!

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Starting to build the solar kiln
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2017, 12:08:52 am »
Better safe than sorry!
Yep.
My kiln exterior is a black painted board and batten style, and over the years, the interior sealing and paint has given up.  So now when I put a green load in, the moisture will permeate the structure and cause the board and batten to noticeably swell some.  Conversely, when a load gets dry, it's easy to tell by merely looking at the outside of the kiln as a I walk by, because I can see clearly visible white lines where the board and batten has shrunk, and exposed the unpainted surface underneath.  So little white stripes, let it cook some more, big white shrinkage stripes, the load is dry.

For example, this load is dry..... ;D.  Easy bake oven.... :D

 
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