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How to fell a split tree

Started by Carl Root, May 28, 2017, 04:41:55 PM

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Carl Root

I could simply wait for it to fall over on its own . . .   

It's 10" dbh. Inaccessilbe to truck or other machinery.  I'd treat it normally except that the notch would have to be pretty deep and of course I don't want to risk having the kerf side spring open as it's being cut.


Carl Root

Thought I'd included two photos in the post. . . . .

Ox

Ratchet strap it together just above where you'd notch it to fell it.  It's only 10" - it'll be alright.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Carl Root

I have a band clamp somewhere.  Not sure if it will be strong enough or if the clamping mechanism would be secure enough.  Good idea, though.

Ox

I don't know what the band clamp is you're talking about.  I can only think of the clamps holding together manure lagoon pump pipe on the farm.  Most of the cheap 1" ratchet straps with the hooks on the ends are rated at around 1000 lbs or more.  If in doubt, put two of them on.  I've held together a big old red oak this way, twice the size of your tree and with only one strap.  You're basically just keeping the crack from opening more so it don't take much.  You could also just take some rope and tie it around then twist it up with a bar or strong stick to tighten it up.  Baling twine would even work.  Or many wraps of baling wire.  Heck, if ya wrapped it with enough duct tape it would work!  :laugh:
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools



Ox

After seeing your pics, I would shallow notch the downhill side of the trunk, then cut through the root right next to the trunk then cut the back of the split off just above your notch.  This would put all the tension on the downhill side of the tree.  Then what's left just fell normally.  If it were mine, I wouldn't even bother strapping it.

I'm not a professional.  Just 25 years of hillbilly cutting.  I do still have all my fingers and toes however and have never cut myself with a chainsaw.  Yes, some luck was involved occasionally as it usually is in life.

Hopefully a more seasoned professional feller will come along and offer an opinion.  I'd like to learn a better way if there is one.

I want to say that if you're not comfortable or have much experience in the woods or with a saw maybe you better get some professional help in there, just for safety reasons and such.  You know how it is...

Keep us updated on how and what you do!  :P
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

JBlain

I like a challenge as much as the next guy.  I see it looks like a dead white ash.  That is a second strIke in my book.  I dropped hundreds on our property and had all the saw logs milled up.  I will say a few with pressure on them split  in half coming down with the top coming right back at me.  It was not close since I had an escape route and don't hang around to watch the tree fall....be careful.  I would let mother nature take care of it.  Ash goes quick and the roots let go fast too.

Josh
Josh

bill m

I could give my opinion but without seeing the whole tree I won't. Giving recommendations based only on the picture of the lower part of the trunk could have serious consequences.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Carl Root

I just walked down to have another look at it.  It is definitely alive.  A crown full of new leaves and no lower branches off the trunk to get hung up in another tree, although it is rubbing up against the much smaller white pine on the right just slightly.  I'd expect it to fall perpendicular to the plane of the split, riding the pine down.

I thought I'd put a notch almost all the way to the split, then continue with an axe, at which point the split would close up.  You could fell it in the usual way with a kerf above the notch on the uphill side, but I wonder if an axe would be safer.  I've done that before when I thought the tensions were less than straight forward.

The question in the back of my mind is, is anything likely to give way as you cut your deeper than usual notch?

Puffergas

If it was girdled it would die faster.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

thecfarm

Why cut it? You said, Inaccessilbe to truck or other machinery. If it's alive,it should not fall by itself.
Nice looking area there.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Carl Root

Edgecomb, ME.  On the Damariscotta River.  Moved here three years ago and immediately put in a wood stove.  I had two large trees fall over each of the first two years, but none last year, so I figured this one was a firewood candidate. 

There's another larger tree missing half its bark, but it would hit this one on the way down.  And there's another one leaning up against that one . . . . 

I'll try to take some more pictures.

dustyhat

I can tell you how my grand paw used to cut them, but they was not split, he tryed to keep them from splitting to much by hooking a log chain about head high and wrapping it down the tree in a candy cane way four or five wraps and hooking of to another tree. worked pretty good ,but he was working with a crosscut saw. i see your pic as a real saw pincher. and i would not guarantee anything.

Carl Root

This is the tree that worries me.  I'm afraid it will be the first to go on its own and get caught between the ash and another tree.  That's already happened to the beech on the left that is caught up in the other tree in the foreground.





The one with the bark missing on the other side is about a third of the way in from the left.

GrizG

From the photos that tree looks like a perfect candidate for an open face notch deep enough to be about 80% of the diameter. Then use a plunge cut to establish the hinge leaving a trigger on the uphill side.  Last step would be to cut the trigger from the outside. This approach should prevent a barber chair and the split shouldn't open up badly until it hits the ground.  Of course standing at the tree might give me other ideas...  ;)

Carl Root

I want to make sure I get this right.  I'm going to cut a notch all the way to the split?  I'm not clear about the plunge cut.  To me, that's using the nose of the bar, but from which end?  Never done that.  And do you then finish it off with the usual kerf above the notch?

GrizG

Quote from: Carl Root on May 31, 2017, 09:13:16 PM
I want to make sure I get this right.  I'm going to cut a notch all the way to the split?  I'm not clear about the plunge cut.  To me, that's using the nose of the bar, but from which end?  Never done that.  And do you then finish it off with the usual kerf above the notch?
This video shows the process I described. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teb2bQsqx44  It is the method taught in The Game of Logging program. The video is very detailed... to the point where some viewers get antsy... but it is one of the better training ones out there. 

In your case you'd treat the tree as if it is not split... the sequence of cuts should keep it intact until it's falling and maybe even all the way to the ground. Outside of cases where I had to make the back cut first and wedge it before making the face cut I use this method pretty much all the time. I've never had a barber chair... I do admit I had a few extremely rotten trees that collapsed before I finished cutting... they were dangerous trees no matter what method would have been employed!

Take a hard look at your tree and I think you'll find that this is a good way to go.

derhntr

2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

sandsawmill14

if you notice the trees in the videos appear to be standing straight up and sound trees  yours is a bad leaner with what will be the hold wood on the back dead if not rotten BE VERY CAREFUL if you try to fell it this way and DO NOT try it with only one saw if you cut a little to much when you are boring it will set down and you will need the 2nd saw to release the tree ;) try to find someone with more experience to help you and maybe even let you cut it everyone has to learn sometime  :) i still have questions sometimes and i have been running a saw for 30+ years :) that tree is dangerous to learn on but not to bad if you have done it a few times :) if you were 1200 or so miles closer i would come by and cut it for you.  it would take less than a minute and the butt would land down the hill 3 or 4 ft from the stump ( if it is down hill as it looks in the pic ) i wont try to tell you how i would cut it because if you mess up it will go real bad real quick :o and i dont want anyone killed because of what i said  :o be safe with it and try to find someone to help even a tree service guy would probably come by after work and fell it for you if you cant find anyone else :) good luck
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

sandsawmill14

by the way that first video was a good cut  smiley_thumbsup the second guy ??? i will just say he wont be felling for me  ;) ;D
and a question   i have watched several gol cut videos and all were high stumped is that the way they teach it or are the guys just not wanting bend their backs ???
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

GrizG

Quote from: sandsawmill14 on May 31, 2017, 11:14:08 PM
by the way that first video was a good cut  smiley_thumbsup the second guy ??? i will just say he wont be felling for me  ;) ;D
and a question   i have watched several gol cut videos and all were high stumped is that the way they teach it or are the guys just not wanting bend their backs ???
When I took the GOL training it was geared towards falling for milling and the stump was cut as low to the ground as possible... typically down on a knee to make the plunge cut. Many of the videos, including the Husky one, show a cut geared towards firewood. However,  one's best judgement of the condition of the tree and the terrain impact the cutting decisions as much as trying to get the last bf out of the tree.

In the case of the original poster's tree, from the photos is appears the split is positioned such that he'd have good holding wood and, in true GOL fashion, wedging should start as soon as there is room for the wedges.  However, as I mentioned in my original response, seeing the tree in person might change my opinion... 

sandsawmill14

there is always  "more than one way to skin a cat" (old saying :D ) i guess i dont completely understand the GOL or maybe its just different to how i was taught ???  i dont cut much now but i never used wedges unless i was having to throw one awkwardly or something  ??? i mean i kept them with me but rarely used them :) also i normally cut the notch upside down to how it was in the video if it was good timber on tie logs or firewood it was just so they hit ground ;D  and on the bigger trees 36"+ especially white oak/red oak instead of a angle notch we would cut out a square notch 4-6" wide and 8" or more deep depending on size of tree and bore in through notch to one side till we cut through the bark then do same on other side then move to the side of the tree to finish bore cut leaving about 4" of hold wood on the back then the tree was just standing on 3 "legs"  then just clip the back and let er go ;D  we did it this way to be sure there was  NO heart pull  even a little only 6" deep would cost half of the price of the log even if it was to the edge of the notch instead of in the center  ::) i know what little pull you get at a notch doesnt hurt a log one little bit but the stave/veneer log buyers will cut you for anything they can find  ::)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

derhntr

Clearly no lumber in the butt of this tree and he said it was firewood. I never used to use wedges, now I use them all the time. Better safe then sorry. A high stump will hurt nothing here.
2006 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 with command control (I hate walking in sawdust)
US Army National Guard (RET) SFC

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