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Buncher laying wood down for processor

Started by deastman, May 26, 2017, 04:42:53 PM

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deastman

A lot of guys up here are cutting ahead of the processor with a buncher and say it doubles their production. Wondering how many of you do it and how does it work for you? I haven't seen it done yet so I'm going to check out another contractors job to see how they lay the wood out for the processor
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

Ken

Although I haven't done it some local contractors have used that method.  I think where it would really shine is when there are a lot of unmerchantable stems to deal with.  The buncher can dispose of them much quicker than a dangle head.  The type of head you are using will also have a effect on your production.  Heads designed for processing generally have only top grab/delimbing arms and they are longer than some others types of harvesting heads.
Downside = another machine to maintain and repair
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Corley5

The majority of CTL crews are doing this in my area. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

BargeMonkey

 It's the route / system I'm trying to duplicate because it does make sense.

deastman

I'm trying to figure out if that's the best route or add another processor. My processor is on the small side and with adding a buncher I'm still limited to what it can process, with two processors I would think they would stay ahead and keep the forwarder busy all the time. Right now I can't cut enough to stay ahead of the forwarder every day, I've also been thinking about going to a dangle head to up production
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

BargeMonkey

Quote from: deastman on May 26, 2017, 07:50:05 PM
I'm trying to figure out if that's the best route or add another processor. My processor is on the small side and with adding a buncher I'm still limited to what it can process, with two processors I would think they would stay ahead and keep the forwarder busy all the time. Right now I can't cut enough to stay ahead of the forwarder every day, I've also been thinking about going to a dangle head to up production
I've kind of made my mind up I'm going to buy something with a 4-roller here shortly because everyone says they are simple and close to bulletproof, but you are limited on size. I'm talking on a 120 class, I'm doing some residential work where it would shine, if ground is to rugged in the woods hot feed it with my 2 skidders to a landing in the woods. Anyway, I talked with a guy the other day for 1hr on the phone, another contact made thru the FF 😂, this guy is almost the authority on Timbco / Timberpro. Theres a 620E for sale online, dealer doesnt know much about it, this guy the other day gave me the history from day one, and told me what the dealer is going to take for it, it's the one that sits in NJ/PA with the log max 7000 on it, actually a deal if your looking to go dangle.

deastman

My 4 roller has been bulletproof  but my carrier is a 130 and I'd like to have a heavier one like a 501 or a 415 . I need a little more hp and hyd power.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

wannaergo

I would say if you want more power, go with the 415. You won't get it with a 501 in my opinion.
2016 Ponsse ergo 8w
2014 Cat 564
Husky 385

Gary_C

I'ts hard for me to see how adding the cost of another man and machine to an operation could be a cost savings.

I have processed for another guy who fell and whole tree skid to a landing where I processed the large Scotch Pine and refused to do that again. Problem is you can bury yourself quickly with the processed wood and slash. You need another guy to clear the piles or it can become messy. Plus those dangle head knives are not made for picking trees out of a pile.

If you are processing at the stump or nearby from bunches, it still is not easy to pick trees from piles or even individually. I have done some form of that process in some areas where I did not have enough room to fell and process at the stump with one operation and it was not a faster process.

Yes there are times when it would be easier to out muscle a tree with a four roller tracked machine but even then, faster is not one of the advantages I would consider to be an advantage. With a lot of small stems, yes those dangle heads are slow and I've never bent more bars and thrown more chains that in small stuff. But still on the average, a good operator in a processer should be able to out cut any two machines because of fewer operations in the process.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

wannaergo

I think if you were going to put a buncher in front of a processer, adding a limber for big hardwood limbs will make a surprisingly big impact on production. I think big limbs are one of the things that slow me down the most in a harvester. I would also recommend going with a dangle head that's designed for picking from piles rather than a fixed head. If you didn't want to do that, I know there's more than one company that makes aftermarket knives that are designed for picking from bundles and they make a big difference. Our Ponsse h8 came with them, and for digging through tops the way it was set up was awesome, but for general use I didn't like it and made some changes.  If you are sold on fixed heads, look into the JP Skidmore heads. In my opinion, they are going to be the best fixed head on the market.
2016 Ponsse ergo 8w
2014 Cat 564
Husky 385

quilbilly

Most guys out here skid or shovel log tree length into a dangle head. Buncher out front. They get good production. With tree farms cutting their rotation on 45-50 years rather than 65 like they used too the production is going down a bit.
a man is strongest on his knees

Riwaka

Variables - Depends on the terrain's slope, how wet the soil is for how long, tree size, mixed tree species stands etc, logging/ environment rules - no dragging etc. Fuel costs, wood prices etc.
What machines have the best support? - Option A -might go for a felling head on a buncher, shovel the difficult places where the forwarder is going to be slow if loaded,  keep the processing going with the small processing machine, when there is plenty of wood on the ground swap the felling head to a processing head on the buncher to keep ahead of the the forwarder.
I assume you only have two operators in the woods - the processor and forwarder operator.
Option B- light swappable processing head on the forwarder, on easy terrain the small tracked processor just felling and aligning branched stems. Chainsaw to take off heavy tree branches.


barbender

Not many operations prebunching wood up here, in fact I only know of one. One of our contract cutters runs an old JD track buncher ahead of his processor, a pretty new Ponsse Ergo. I got sent to their job this winter to help them catch up, we had 4 forwarders on that job :o They are usually in large aspen clearcuts when they use the buncher. When you put over a hundred cords on the landing in a day, and there's another forwarder working with you yet the processor is getting away from you, they are putting out a lot of wood. I would venture a guess that their production goes up at least 50% with the buncher, as well as a lot less hose and bar and chain maintenance.
Too many irons in the fire

deastman

I've been told if i add a buncher it wouldn't have to work that much to stay ahead of the processor and would probably sit a lot. Not sure if that route would keep wood ahead of the forwarder all the time. Right now I can't cut enough to stay ahead and the forwarder's not working near full capacity. I've been thinking for the past year about adding another processor. With two processors I would think it would keep the forwarder going full time. Or maybe switching to a dangle head would up production, trying to figure out which option would work best for me
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

chevytaHOE5674

When I ran processor I was always able to keep enough wood on the ground that the forwarder was always busy. Once we upgraded processors it was no trouble to get a few days ahead of the forwarder when the wood was good. This was cutting off the stump not bunched wood.

barbender

Typical wood our rubber tire dangle head processors each keep a forwader busy.  It all ebbs and flows, sometimes we get a long skid and decent wood, the forwarder can fall behind. Ratty wood, the forwader is right on the processor, and having to take days off. In great wood, a processor can bury a forwarder or two, or even more. We have the benefit of having a fleet of machines so that we can shuffle machines around to even things out. Sometimes, in low production wood like swamp black spruce, I might be forwarding up to 3 processors myself, or I often get put on a high production job to help another forwarder and let a different processor get a week or two ahead. I would look into a dangle head machine before  I went to a feller buncher.
Too many irons in the fire

barbender

I will also note, a few guys have traded in 703 JD track dangle head machines on new Ponsse Ergo rubber tire dangle machines. I've heard claims of guys besting their all time best production with the 703 on the third day in the new Ergo, and they didn't feel all beat up to boot. I think a rubber tire is a far more versatile machine. We have around 10 processors going between company and contract cutters, all Ponsse Ergos. Not a track based processor in the whole spread. We had a Ponsse Bear for bigger wood, but that ended up going down the road for an Ergo 8W. The Bear was impressive in big stuff but not nearly as fast as the Ergo in smaller wood. My point, I guess, is I think a mid-sized rubber tire dangle head is the way to fly for most at the stump processing.
Too many irons in the fire

deastman

How do the dangle heads work when there's a lot of regen you're trying to save? I've never run a rubber-tired processor or even a dangle head but the smoother ride and not being all beat up at the end of the day sounds great. With my fixed head I lay all the trees down ahead of me where I'm cutting my trail so not to damage any trees off to the sides , can you do that with a dangle head?
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

chevytaHOE5674

99% of what I processed was select cut thinning jobs, with a large majority of them being Fed sales. Needless to say if you damaged too many residual trees you would find yourself in hot water. Once you know what your doing you actually have great directional control with a dangle head machine.

snowstorm

Shouldn't you have the first log cut before the tree hits the ground? I know it can be done sometimes

deastman

The Rottne salesman is taking me to a demo of one of their new processors next week so I can see how they do, he used to sell a lot of 501's with fixed heads and now he says the dangle head is the way to go
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

snowstorm

That would be Jared.  Nice enough guy for a salesman. He worked for cat. Google his name and you will know why he dose not work for them. You may have read about it in the bangor paper.

deastman

Ya I've known him from his days at Cat, he helped me with my four-roller when I first got it, he was a big help. He's helping me now with learning about the whole dangle head approach. Nortrax has a 501 with a Prentice(Cat) dangle head that I looked at and he's the guy I call when I have questions about Cat rigs. He can tell you who bought it new, who else has owned it since and how good their maintenance program was and if there were any major issues with it. Don't you have a Rottne? I need to get down and see yours work
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

snowstorm


deastman

Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

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