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Band Wheel Belt

Started by Dewey, May 23, 2017, 07:34:29 AM

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Dewey

Why is it that Vee Belts can't be made with accurate specs. I have 19" band wheels . I have a Timber Harvestor HT30 I usually run Napa B56 belt.. Because other brands run flush with the pulley.... I got a Napa belt yesterday and the same thing...  flush with pulley and the blade is running on the steel....  Is there a belt that is just a bit wider ??? So that it will run higher than the pulley or do I have to keep buying them to find the fit ?

Ga Mtn Man

I have found the Goodyear Engineered (made by ??) belts to be consistent in dimensions and quality but they are now being manufactured by Continental (ContiTech) so that may no longer be true.  There are still some old-stock Goodyear belts on eBay to be had.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

paul case

I started sawing with an EZ Boardwalk sawmill. The owner told me he had the new pulley wheels turned down on the edge some like maybe 3/16'' so that more belt showed. That may be an answer for your  problems.

I only know this because I noticed one had gotten close on the backside and the front was a ways from the metal of the pulley wheel. The wheel had been turned down on the front but the machinist missed the back. They traded me wheels without charge.

I ran the original belts on it for about 350 hours before they wore out. They were tight belts, B56.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Chuck White

I agree with Paul!

Most likely, being a Timber Harvestor, the mill has enough hours (run time) that it's time to dress the band wheels a little!

Just one of those things that come with time!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

xlogger

I had my drive side pulley turned down also. I'd put on a new goodyear and it would be flush with the steel. Nest belt change on idle side I'll do the same.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

bandmiller2

Dewey, I have the same problem, When I built my mill I put NAPA B-56 belts at the time made by Gates, they were proud to the sheave, and a crown to boot. I put the old ones back on. I have a spare sheave I may take it around and try different belts in the groove. I could also grind the lips of the sheave down with a large grinder, run the drive end with no belt and put a scrap band on to grind the idle side. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ladylake



  Frank


  No need to put a band on when grinding the idle side, just hold the grinder at a angle to the wheel and that will get it spinning good.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Your right Steve, I've used that method on other things never thought about it on mill sheaves. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

sawwood

We have a Norwood mark4 that is about 12 years old, will have to look at the ban wheels when i put new belts
on if the wheel needs to be turned down. If they do where would i take them to be turned ? I ordered new belts
from Norwood so hope they will show i don't need o have them turned.

sawwood
Norwood M4 manual mill, Solar Kiln, Woodmaster
18" planer/molder

Kbeitz

Quote from: sawwood on May 24, 2017, 12:58:31 PM
We have a Norwood mark4 that is about 12 years old, will have to look at the ban wheels when i put new belts
on if the wheel needs to be turned down. If they do where would i take them to be turned ? I ordered new belts
from Norwood so hope they will show i don't need o have them turned.

sawwood

A machine shop...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Dewey

I'm taking both wheels to a machine shop next week....  I'm going to take a belt with me ....  I'm thinking of taking off approximately 3/16 "

bandmiller2

Not every machine shop can handle turning that large a diameter, usually it entails a gap bed lathe, best to call first. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Kbeitz

Quote from: bandmiller2 on May 24, 2017, 08:34:04 PM
Not every machine shop can handle turning that large a diameter, usually it entails a gap bed lathe, best to call first. Frank C.

Or a milling machine with a turn table...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Larry

Every machine shop will have a Bridgeport or clone with a rotary table.  I'm not sure what the maximum is on my machine but I've cut 30" diameter before.  The only picture I had making parts for something.



Here is the kicker.  I did two wheels for a home built mill a couple of years ago.  When I got the wheel on the mill I indicated off the hub to true it up.  Just out of curiosity I than checked the rim.  The rim was 50 thousandths or more out on both wheels.  Nothing I could correct on the mill and I don't have big enough lathe.  I took the wheels to a friend with a big lathe and re-cut the groove.  My customer later told me his blade breakage dropped to almost nothing after the wheels were trued.

Moral of the story, if ya take it to a machinist ask him to indicate both the hub and rim to make sure it is concentric.  Re-cutting the groove is no big deal once the wheel is mounted on the lathe.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

grouch

Would it not be possible to true it while it's mounted on the sawmill?
Find something to do that interests you.

Kbeitz

Quote from: grouch on May 24, 2017, 09:32:49 PM
Would it not be possible to true it while it's mounted on the sawmill?

Yes it can be done. You can mound a crossslide on your mill and make your cuts.
Run a drive belt to the unpowered wheel to make cuts on that one.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Larry

My neighbor was a millwright out west working on the big bandmills.  That's exactly how they true the wheels, but they are huge.

On our small mills it might be a project getting a cross slide set up and secure.  I do crown bandsaw tires on vertical saws that way but use a belt sander or grinder.



Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

SineWave

How important is it to have belts on bandwheels to act like tires?

The reason I ask is, I'm getting ready to buy a Linn Lumber saw head, and I don't think they use belts for tires. They're just cast steel (or maybe cast iron?) wheels. What are the pros and cons of using non-tired bandwheels? (I hope this doesn't derail the thread...)

Larry

You will find opinions all over the place on steel wheels.  I knew a guy with a WM LT-300 that had them and thought they were great.  He had to send them off every so many hours to be re-ground but had an extra set so it was a rotation deal.  I think WM still offers them on the industrial mills.

TK tried them and they were a miserable failure.  I don't know what the reason. 

I had them on my first mill, a Kasco and liked them well.  I put a lot of hours on that small mill with zero wheel problems.  My present TK mill uses belts.  They wear out and have to be changed which is a pain.  Sometimes they get cut from a broken band and need early attention.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

SineWave

Thank you for the advice, Larry.

ladylake

Quote from: Larry on May 24, 2017, 10:27:12 PM
You will find opinions all over the place on steel wheels.  I knew a guy with a WM LT-300 that had them and thought they were great.  He had to send them off every so many hours to be re-ground but had an extra set so it was a rotation deal.  I think WM still offers them on the industrial mills.

TK tried them and they were a miserable failure.  I don't know what the reason. 

I had them on my first mill, a Kasco and liked them well.  I put a lot of hours on that small mill with zero wheel problems.  My present TK mill uses belts.  They wear out and have to be changed which is a pain.  Sometimes they get cut from a broken band and need early attention.


I think the early TK steel wheel were flat not crowned which didn't work good,  Seems like Cooks and Baker are running crowned wheel that work good.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Pabene

I have a mill "Metesa", with 7,5 kW electrical motor. It has wheel made out of real god steel. I think the wheel are water cut in thick shetmetal and then mashined. It is a 6,5 mm wide cylindric surface as the top of the crown. The wheel on the saw mill has worked very good during 12 years. The 6,5 mm wide contact surface for the blade has now a little wear, it is 7,5 mm wide. I think if the wheel are made of cast iron you would see moore wear.
Pilous, a mill brand from the Czech Republic, are famous for metal cut band saws. They cut steel rods in "thimber dimensions". Pilous has also a production of log band saw mills. There are a lot of parts in the mills as ar common for metal mills and wood mills. The weels has a 25 mm wide "grove" with cylindric flat bottom. On each side it is a about 2,5 mm flange. In that grove they have a flat, about 4 mm thick rubber belt. You can't see any crown on the wheel, it is a 25 mm wide, cylindric contact surface for the blade. I think the rubber is weeker at the edges so when the blade tension comes on, you will have a crown. I know it works wery good, the rubber is freindly to the blades, the rubber bands are cheep an easy to replace.

Dewey

I've called and talked to machine shop... He can do it...I talked to the place I buy my belts and they had a xB56 Which did sit higher than the wheel....  problem was it was a flat surface on top...  the blade wouldn't stay on long enough to come up to speed.
I know the idea of the belt is to have a crown so that it tracks right . I guess that's why the Cooks all steal pulleys work fine they are made with a crown..

Soo...  I am buying new belts and sending them with both pulleys and having them ground to fit...  I thought of grinding them but am afraid to unbalance or out of round them...
So wish me luck they are going next Tuesday

Bandmill Bandit

Interesting thread.

I run the flat back B56 good year belts from wood mizer and have not had an issue to date with the belt to low in the groove unless its past wore out. I am guessing that the Woodmizer wheels are machined to Woodmizer spec rather than just off the shelf wheels, but I don't know for sure if that is case.

I have run a set of Gates B56 flat back belts and they worked well but they wear about 20% faster.     
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

grouch

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on May 25, 2017, 08:33:38 PM
Interesting thread.

I run the flat back B56 good year belts from wood mizer and have not had an issue to date with the belt to low in the groove unless its past wore out. I am guessing that the Woodmizer wheels are machined to Woodmizer spec rather than just off the shelf wheels, but I don't know for sure if that is case.

I have run a set of Gates B56 flat back belts and they worked well but they wear about 20% faster.     

And from the other end of the spectrum...
I have an HF mill with who-knows-what kind of belts on it and after I figured out that the instructions for tracking are useless, haven't had any tracking problems.
Find something to do that interests you.

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